Obi-Wan Kenobi tv series (SPOILER ALERTS)

Twin30mm

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Disney are far from perfect but if you think people make this **** up you need to take a look around and wake the **** up to the world we live in. Look what happened after the Euros and Englands missed penalties. Look at the abuse those three got. Look at a teenage gunman livestreaming massacring black people in the ****ing supermarket

Where did I say they were making this **** up? Online and offline abuse is unfortunately a reality (from both sides of the political spectrum).

It just seems fishy to me that this controversy has been allowed to overshadow the release of Kenobi.
I'll ask again, where was the abuse claims regarding the casting of numerous POC beforehand, in the Mandalorian for example.

If you think courting controversy is above a money grabbing mega corporation to further their own ends, then perhaps it's you that needs to wake up.
 

Cazza

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People tend to get the abuse when the 'fans' don't like their character for some reason. For example, most people seem to love Fennec, so Ming didn't get any abuse. A lot of people didn't like Rose, Rey or Reva and look what happened.
 

lejackal

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Where did I say they were making this **** up? Online and offline abuse is unfortunately a reality (from both sides of the political spectrum).

It just seems fishy to me that this controversy has been allowed to overshadow the release of Kenobi.
I'll ask again, where was the abuse claims regarding the casting of numerous POC beforehand, in the Mandalorian for example.

If you think courting controversy is above a money grabbing mega corporation to further their own ends, then perhaps it's you that needs to wake up.
"If true, these morons are simply not Star Wars fans."

this is clearly suggesting the reports are not true, also known as making this **** up

"I have to say, something feels very off with this.
Please be wary of falling for Disneys playbook, as we've been here before haven't we (accusations of racism, misogyny etc. to deflect valid criticism).
Disneys pre-emptive warnings of abuse before Kenobi even aired was odd to say the least and smacked of manufactured controversy."


Again implying it is not true.

"I'm not saying online abuse is a complete fabrication, of course it exists."

Just some of it?

"I'm just saying that it might be blown out of proportion to serve a narrative."

What proportion of abuse is acceptable then? One tweet? Two? Ten?

"Have we had any evidence provided of this online abuse?"
I believe screen shots have been shared of some examples.

"Daisy Ridley, John Boyega and Kelly Marie Tran were supposedly hounded off social media.
Happy to be corrected, but was there any evidence provided. Again, none that I saw."

Again suggesting the incidents never happened

Courting controversy is one thing, sadly this isn't it.
 

Twin30mm

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"If true, these morons are simply not Star Wars fans."

this is clearly suggesting the reports are not true, also known as making this **** up

"I have to say, something feels very off with this.
Please be wary of falling for Disneys playbook, as we've been here before haven't we (accusations of racism, misogyny etc. to deflect valid criticism).
Disneys pre-emptive warnings of abuse before Kenobi even aired was odd to say the least and smacked of manufactured controversy."


Again implying it is not true.

"I'm not saying online abuse is a complete fabrication, of course it exists."

Just some of it?

"I'm just saying that it might be blown out of proportion to serve a narrative."

What proportion of abuse is acceptable then? One tweet? Two? Ten?

"Have we had any evidence provided of this online abuse?"
I believe screen shots have been shared of some examples.

"Daisy Ridley, John Boyega and Kelly Marie Tran were supposedly hounded off social media.
Happy to be corrected, but was there any evidence provided. Again, none that I saw."

Again suggesting the incidents never happened

Courting controversy is one thing, sadly this isn't it.

So you're telling me you take at face value everything you read or hear on the Internet.

That seems to be extremely naive.

Again I'm not suggesting these claims are false. They are extremely serious accusations. Just that we need to proceed with caution and not go in all guns blazing.

The Jussie Smollett debacle and the current Depp/Heard case would suggest you need to approach these controversies with caution.
 

Twin30mm

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People tend to get the abuse when the 'fans' don't like their character for some reason. For example, most people seem to love Fennec, so Ming didn't get any abuse. A lot of people didn't like Rose, Rey or Reva and look what happened.

I get that, but why did Disney make that pre-emptive statement before Kenobi was even released and people had chance to react to Moses performance?

It just seemed a very cack-handed thing to do. To basically accuse the fan base of racism and kick up a storm of controversy.

It was a veritable 'call to arms' to every racist knuckle-dragger on the Internet to start warming up their keyboards.
 
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Cazza

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I think she had already had some flak from the trailers, so they were trying to protect/stand by a young actress who was looking likely to receive the same sort of treatment as KMT, just for playing a part in a TV show.
 
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Pomse2001

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Ok episode 3 was so far the best episode for me. It was cool to see vader again. It has been years since I last saw the movie episode 4. But I must admit I got confused does the obi wan kenobi series match with the movie episode 4 ? I had the impression of what I remember from episode 4 the movie that vader and kenobi had not seen each other since the clone wars :unsure:
 

Snaketibe

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On-line abuse in any form is never acceptable, whether by racist c*nts or by Pablo Hidalgo. Hiding behind keyboards or mega corporations bestows idiots and *ssholes with a false sense of security and invulnerability. Of course there will have been despicable racist abuse aimed at Moses Ingram. The world has both good, bad and ugly people in it, and sadly all too often the ugly ones grab the headlines. Is that abuse widespread, or are those ugly individuals anything more than a thankfully tiny minority of the total global population of Star Wars fans? I sincerely doubt it. Are they representative of the vast majority of Star Wars fans? Absolutely not! They don't represent me or (I sincerely hope and believe) the vast majority of people on this forum, or fans anywhere else. Look at how many people are coming out and condemning the abuse. That is far more representative of your average Star Wars fan in my opinion. Just as a few utterly unacceptable *ssholic football hooligans do not represent the vast majority of football fans (whose good name gets dragged through the mud by those few rotten apples every time there's a new incident of hooliganism), the few racist Star Wars 'fans' (who shout very loudly and are given far too much publicity as a consequence) do not represent the vast majority of us.

Taking NOTHING away from the above, it is only fair to point out how many times and often Disney / Lucasfilm have engaged in fan bashing and abuse of their own, criticising us for having the temerity to not absolutely love every single thing that they've done, no matter how non-canonical, non-sensical or deliberately, calculatedly and cynically fan-displeasing those things might be (murdering Han Solo and assassinating first the character of Luke Skywalker before actually assassinating him, anyone?). Blaming us for their mistakes and deliberately and cynically, muddying the waters, conflating and deflecting their failures by pouncing on the (again thankfully) relatively few examples of hideous actual abuse perpetrated by the tiny minority of idiots mentioned above, and then using it as a blanket cover to brand any and all valid criticism of their products as racist abuse! It's outrageous!

It is perfectly acceptable to dislike the characters of Rose Tico or Reva for any number of valid reasons. It is not acceptable to dislike or abuse Kelly Marie Tran or Moses Ingram for playing those characters. However, Disney have a long and unpleasant track record of not only tarring all fans with the same brush in an attempt to silence valid criticism of their products, they also flat out abuse them. The despicable bullying and piss-taking of fans by Pablo Hidalgo when they dared to actually enjoy and get emotional about Luke Skywalker's return at the end of The Mandalorian Season 2 was breathtaking, not only for its utter lack of any sort of justification, but also for its stupidity and just plain cruelty! He should have been fired on the spot for such fan abuse, yet to this day he remains a 'Star Wars Lore Advisor'(!) in the 'Obi-Wan Kenobi' end credits. And he's not alone in behaving this way at Lucasfilm and yet not being punished for it.

The door swings both ways. If we are to stand up and condemn abuse against Moses Ingram and others (as we certainly should), then we should be equally vocal in our condemnation of abusers like Pablo Hidalgo. Disney are not blameless.
 

Snaketibe

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As for episode 3 itself, to quote many a Star Wars character... I have a bad feeling about this :(.

Whilst superficially it looked good and Ewan McGregor's acting remains as excellent as ever, the increasing disregard for canon is a BIG problem. If others manage to see past that, then that's up to them, but I can't. If George Lucas didn't feel the need to break canon, who the hell are Disney to play fast and loose with it? It is perfectly apparent from 'A New Hope' that Vader and Obi-Wan had not met each other since their battle on Mustafar, and yet here we see them not only meeting, but fighting and Obi-Wan getting his ass kicked to boot! Does that gel with Vader saying on the Death Star, 'I've been waiting for you, Obi-Wan. We meet again, at last. The circle is now complete. When I left you I was but the learner. Now, *I* am the master'?

And to repeat a point I made in my previous post about the first two episodes, it's completely unrealistic (and yet utterly typical of Disney's constant denigration of legacy characters) to have Obi-Wan Kenobi suddenly be a weak and feeble Force-user! Would he feel beaten and deflated by the Empire wiping out the Jedi? Of course. Would he feel a sense of massive personal failure at Anakin turning to the Dark Side? Certainly (and btw, there is NO way he could possibly be surprised at the 'revelation' that Anakin was Darth Vader and hence was still alive. He would have known this for many years by this point, not least through using the sodding Force!). However, Yoda gave him two jobs to do on Tatooine, one of which was to watch over Luke as the potential saviour of the Jedi Order. And for that, if for no other reason, Obi-Wan would have maintained his Jedi skills, ensuring that he could fulfil the role given to him by Yoda. It's preposterous and insulting to believe he would have become another 'Last Jedi Luke'; a weak and feeble shadow of his former self so completely at odds with the man we knew as to even eschew his lightsaber, the weapon of a Jedi Knight, an elegant weapon for a more civilized age, and instead choose to use a clumsy, random blaster! Who is this Jake Kenobi, because it sure as hell ain't Obi-Wan?!

If Disney had any sense at all (which they haven't), or a single ounce of respect for Star Wars (obviously not), they would have given us a series where an older, wiser, but still fully powerful Jedi Obi-Wan went on a thrilling adventure, meeting adversaries worthy of him, and enabling him to show us the full spectrum of his skills; skills which would be required and necessary to overcome the challenges littering his path. I want to see Jedi in action, not Jedi inaction.
 

UKS

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Vader and Obi wans meeting in Anh became
Odd once we learned of what happened in the days of the prequels.(I remember the volcano stuff from ROTJ time) Let alone when the prequels were actually made!

It doesn't chime with the anger that Vader would have had. So this in between meeting does help that. Obiwan actually meets Vader etc. Vader had his rage battle and the next time he is more confident and assured.

I also see why they have ben not being a force ninja, to explain why he was so much worse by ANH. He has stopped training because he is so sad. It also explains how he learned about Vader - because that was odd.

But

Vader shouldn't be surprised how crap he is by anh. And he shouldn't think it was his fault as "a learner"... unless they meet again before the end of the series and explain that.

The Leia stuff kind of makes sense if you squint - she gets super excited at Ben kenobi and wouldn't if she didn't know of him and know him as Ben!

I already have had to adopt a "let's not talk about it" relationship with sw canon as well, C3PO made by Anakin and the entire world of (old and new) EU.

Once you've done force witches riding rancors and imaginary Anakin padawan hiding in the background of all the films, then little stuff like this is all "shrug".

Ps Reva is getting better, racism is terrible and Disney are great at using things like that to fudge and justify its own bad choices. E.g The empire is space nazis, play them like space Nazis.
 

lejackal

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I mean they (the empire) were always the oppressor, and the troops named after ze germans
 

Pomse2001

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As for episode 3 itself, to quote many a Star Wars character... I have a bad feeling about this :(.

Whilst superficially it looked good and Ewan McGregor's acting remains as excellent as ever, the increasing disregard for canon is a BIG problem. If others manage to see past that, then that's up to them, but I can't. If George Lucas didn't feel the need to break canon, who the hell are Disney to play fast and loose with it? It is perfectly apparent from 'A New Hope' that Vader and Obi-Wan had not met each other since their battle on Mustafar, and yet here we see them not only meeting, but fighting and Obi-Wan getting his ass kicked to boot! Does that gel with Vader saying on the Death Star, 'I've been waiting for you, Obi-Wan. We meet again, at last. The circle is now complete. When I left you I was but the learner. Now, *I* am the master'?

And to repeat a point I made in my previous post about the first two episodes, it's completely unrealistic (and yet utterly typical of Disney's constant denigration of legacy characters) to have Obi-Wan Kenobi suddenly be a weak and feeble Force-user! Would he feel beaten and deflated by the Empire wiping out the Jedi? Of course. Would he feel a sense of massive personal failure at Anakin turning to the Dark Side? Certainly (and btw, there is NO way he could possibly be surprised at the 'revelation' that Anakin was Darth Vader and hence was still alive. He would have known this for many years by this point, not least through using the sodding Force!). However, Yoda gave him two jobs to do on Tatooine, one of which was to watch over Luke as the potential saviour of the Jedi Order. And for that, if for no other reason, Obi-Wan would have maintained his Jedi skills, ensuring that he could fulfil the role given to him by Yoda. It's preposterous and insulting to believe he would have become another 'Last Jedi Luke'; a weak and feeble shadow of his former self so completely at odds with the man we knew as to even eschew his lightsaber, the weapon of a Jedi Knight, an elegant weapon for a more civilized age, and instead choose to use a clumsy, random blaster! Who is this Jake Kenobi, because it sure as hell ain't Obi-Wan?!

If Disney had any sense at all (which they haven't), or a single ounce of respect for Star Wars (obviously not), they would have given us a series where an older, wiser, but still fully powerful Jedi Obi-Wan went on a thrilling adventure, meeting adversaries worthy of him, and enabling him to show us the full spectrum of his skills; skills which would be required and necessary to overcome the challenges littering his path. I want to see Jedi in action, not Jedi inaction.
I am glad that I am not the only one who think there is something wrong about kenobi and vader meet each other :) The words vader say in episode 4 does not match with what happens in the series :unsure:
 

_Lee_

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I wouldn't read to much into that. This episode showed a quick reunion but wasn't long enough to clarify anything. I'm assuming the timeline between this and ANH is around 15-20 years or so. When Vader said "I am what you made me" and then tries to barbecue Obi Wan was probably an immediate reaction to him finally catching up with Ben. When Vader stated in ANH that " we meet again at last and now I am the master " this could be because of a later meeting yet to be seen or heard of. Vader knows that Obi Wan was his master and however much he dislikes it , he knows it is true. Its like Obi Wan seeing the vision of Anakin earlier in the episode - Obi Wan still has the mind to realise this is a warning and he also sensed Vader was close before he turned up.....

Also, how do we know Vader isn't doing what Luke done in TLJ?? I reckon Vader wasn't there but he was using the same trick on Obi Wan and using his senses and force power to meet Obi Wan whilst not actually being there.
 

_Lee_

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And with regards to Obi Wan and the force, maybe he was told to keep it very quiet and live a normal life. Surely Vader would have found him sooner had he still been strong with the force?
 

Twin30mm

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I am glad that I am not the only one who think there is something wrong about kenobi and vader meet each other :) The words vader say in episode 4 does not match with what happens in the series :unsure:

So far, I'm just not seeing the point to this series. The storyline isn't justifying the canon breaking.

It was a bit 'meh', I'm afraid, let down by some truly WTF moments. My fear is they're giving Obi-Wan the Jake Skywalker treatment.

Saying that, I enjoyed the Vader scenes (Vaders voice is spot on). Hopefully, the leaked ending doesnt come to fruition.
Score 6/10
 

TheJabbaWookie

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I don't have a problem with the direction they have pushed Obi Wan's character in.

I can see him feeling utterly dismayed by Anakin's betrayal and turning to the Darkside and the personal anguish of believing he had killed his padawan and friend. I can see him turning away from the skills and training that had thus far guided his life having seen the personal and wide reaching devastation it had caused; after all Anakin was supposed to bring balance to the force.

I also agree he might wish to lie low and not use his skills as this may alert the inquisitors and ultimately Vader. But he wants to fulfil his promise to protect the boy and eventually train him when the empire might be more stable.
 

Twin30mm

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I enjoyed the latest episode, but feel some of the writing was weak...

"Weak" is one way of describing it....
Badly scripted, poorly acted, canon-breaking, amateurish, shambolic embarrassment of a show is another.

I literally burst out laughing at two points.
Episodes 5 & 6 had better be absolute bangers, or Disney can flush another show down the shitter.

If that idiot John Campea is calling your latest effort "the worst episode of Disney+ content ever", then you know you've got problems.

Score: 1/10
 
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Snaketibe

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I thought it was atrocious.

When Obi-Wan walked out with Leia under his coat like Jake the Peg, I had to pinch myself to make sure I wasn't dreaming this rubbish! What else did the brilliant writer of this show consider since they had access to a long coat? Having Obi-Wan put Leia on his shoulders, putting the hat on her, doing up the coat and pretending they were one really tall person with a tiny head? God it was poor!

And as for Reva putting a tracker on Toy Opportunity, sorry, LO-LA, why did she do that exactly? At the only time she had a chance to do that, she didn't even know the base had been infiltrated. Instead, she had a 10 year-old girl completely at her mercy, and was just about to torture her for information. Reva only left the interrogation / torture room (and speaking of torture, watching this trash certainly was; are we really supposed to believe that Imperial torture racks have child-sized settings and restraints?!) when Indira Varma's character turned up outside the room, and the second Imperial officer came in to tell Reva that 'It couldn't wait'. We didn't see Reva suddenly give LO-LA back to the restrained Leia prior to marching out of the room, meaning that she must have ALREADY done so (I'm just about to torture you Leia, but have your beloved droid back first), since after that moment Reva didn't see Leia again until the stupid coat incident. Therefore, the only way the tracker could possibly be on LO-LA was if Reva had put it there PRIOR to knowing that Obi-Wan was there to rescue Leia. Therefore, we are presumably supposed to believe that, even though the entire might of the Empire was supposedly guarding a 10 year-old girl, and even though Reva had no reason to believe that Leia was in any danger of escaping or being rescued at that point, she apparently still put a tracker on LO-LA anyway.... just in case. SERIOUSLY?!

Breaking canon is one thing - and wholly unacceptable; those people for whom it doesn't matter would still enjoy a good show where canon wasn't broken, so why break it and piss off those fans for whom is it important? - but idiotic, incompetent writing is something we should all object to. What garbage!
 
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