Don't forget to vote........................for Corbyn.

[steve obi wan]

I get the support for J Corbyn ,

Pro's

He looks like Ben Obi Wan Kenobi
You would like to go for a pint with him
Some of his ideas are good

Con's

His ideas are not costed
His socialist ideals don't work in a capitalist society
His spending would bankrupt the country again and put us into another recession


Good guy , but a hippy

 

[spoons]

Social media is an interesting thing to mention, going on my Facebook feed Labour would have had a 95% majority. I don't think I saw anybody publicly own up to voting conservative, and a few green/lib dems here and there. Facebook is all about looking cool, and voting tory is not cool. However the results speak for themselves - social media is a lot of hot air and quite distant from reality.

A lot of its demographics. Most of us and our friends are more likely to be lib dem or labour voters, whilst the 60 something baby boomers are more likely to vote Tory

My auntie was a lone voice with her anti Corbyn memes - good on her for sticking to her principles!

The labour gains were mostly from young social media users. First time the Sun and Mail didn't have much influence - changing times

 

[yoda]

The British isles as we have been taught from school I think are slowly changing.

 

[Section 8]

I'd have to disagree with you Weasel. The national debt generally decreases when our economy is strong and growing. Cuts, austerity and the hard Brexit fiasco pushed by May will only serve to make our economy and debt worse. Our debt has doubled under the Tories showing that they are not up to the task. Not sure how Corbyn could be any worse.

I'm not saying Corbyn would bring the national debt crashing down, but he has a point on investment bringing it's own rewards. A country with homelessness, failing health system, under funded police, high inequality are all factors toward a poor economy and making us a less attractive country to invest.

It's the Tories own doing. There should never have been an EU referendum nor another election.

Anyway my post was meant to be a bit of fun and banter on election day. I know we'll never agree or be convinced by the others opinion.




PS: I didn't ask you a question.

 

[ODB]

I'd have to disagree with you Weasel. The national debt generally decreases when our economy is strong and growing. Cuts, austerity and the hard Brexit fiasco pushed by May will only serve to make our economy and debt worse. Our debt has doubled under the Tories showing that they are not up to the task. Not sure how Corbyn could be any worse.

We are at the arse end of Brown's legacy, he broke the golden rule of saving in the good times so you can spend in the bad times, despite telling us he knew better (no more boom and bust anyone?). He maxed us out in the good times so when the bust came we had no where to go. We can't spend our way out when we are already in too deep. The debt has gone up but against the background of recession plus the big increase was under New Labour when the global recession started:

So it hasn't doubled under the Tories, historically it has been higher the 1950s for example. The Tories had a forced hand if they didn't tackle the deficit the debt would keep rising and probably cost more our credit rating meaning it would be even more expensive to borrow so in the cycle it would mean more would be spent on interest and less on other areas. The damning graph is this one:

It shows that through the 'boom' years New Labour consistently overspent which left us in a poor position to weather any recession or downturn. This is just ignored by Labour supporters and is the reason why we now face austerity and hardships, but that doesn't tow the line of evil Tories.

I'm not saying Corbyn would bring the national debt crashing down, but he has a point on investment bringing it's own rewards. A country with homelessness, failing health system, under funded police, high inequality are all factors toward a poor economy and making us a less attractive country to invest.

Corbyn's claims are little more than fantasy, you might as well offer everyone a rainbow coloured unicorn, it would have the same about of fact. Yes investment can and does stimulate the economy but it has to be paid for and that is something that Corbyn didn't even attempt to answer. One economist sat down and attempted to cost out his proposals and even dramatic tax hikes to 30+% on COrp Tax and 55% on Income Tax for over £80k in the first year would not cover his proposals. The man is economic suicide.

It's the Tories own doing. There should never have been an EU referendum nor another election.

Over simplification, the factors are many and both sides have to take a share of the blame, not just the euro sceptic Tories but New Labour and Blair, Corbyn's utter inaction on the BREXIT vote and a failure to address problems in poor areas.

 

[yoda]

I am going to do a Jeremy Irons question but could someone explain who exactly the DEPT is owned to???

 

[Section 8]

It shows that through the 'boom' years New Labour consistently overspent which left us in a poor position to weather any recession or downturn. This is just ignored by Labour supporters and is the reason why we now face austerity and hardships, but that doesn't tow the line of evil Tories.

Corbyn's claims are little more than fantasy, you might as well offer everyone a rainbow coloured unicorn, it would have the same about of fact. Yes investment can and does stimulate the economy but it has to be paid for and that is something that Corbyn didn't even attempt to answer. One economist sat down and attempted to cost out his proposals and even dramatic tax hikes to 30+% on COrp Tax and 55% on Income Tax for over £80k in the first year would not cover his proposals. The man is economic suicide."



Your graphs show that net borrowing was negative or low during the 1st 5 Labour years in office, except the last few when the Global Crisis hit and they needed to borrow to bail out the banks. The Tories came to power in 2010 and borrowing continues to be high.


Your graphs seem to contradict what your saying.

 

[weasel]

I'd have to disagree with you Weasel. The national debt generally decreases when our economy is strong and growing. Cuts, austerity and the hard Brexit fiasco pushed by May will only serve to make our economy and debt worse. Our debt has doubled under the Tories showing that they are not up to the task. Not sure how Corbyn could be any worse.

I'm not saying Corbyn would bring the national debt crashing down, but he has a point on investment bringing it's own rewards. A country with homelessness, failing health system, under funded police, high inequality are all factors toward a poor economy and making us a less attractive country to invest.

It's the Tories own doing. There should never have been an EU referendum nor another election.

Anyway my post was meant to be a bit of fun and banter on election day. I know we'll never agree or be convinced by the others opinion.




PS: I didn't ask you a question.

I take your point on debt generally, going down in the good times, tho as ODB showed above Labour overspent in the boom times of the 90-2000's meaning the big recession hurt us more. Would we have avoided it if they had reigned in spending, probably not, there were a lot more factors involved than just spending. Gordon giving the banks a free-er reign didn't help either but it was a global **** up.
I also take your point that austerity doesn't help an economy grow. I think we are coming at that problem from opposite sides. I look at our Nat Debt and think that needs to be reduced, spending should be limited to something a lot close to our income. Whereas you are coming from the 'how do we get the economy to grow' to try and boost tax take (and people's welfare). Realistically you can't solve a problem like we have solely by austerity, nor can you solve it solely by spending more, the solution needs to be a combination of the two. The tricky bit is deciding what bit of spending to reduce and what bit to increase.

I agree 100% on the referendum. I never really understood why Dave thought it was a good idea. He was taking a massive gamble to solve a problem that didn't really exist. There weren't hundreds of people calling for us to leave the EU, just UKIP and a few Tory backbenchers who still live in 1940. Even UKIP were still a tiny fringe party. Dave's decision to call that referendum will be looked on by history as one of the stupidist political mistakes of all time.
That's not me saying leaving the EU is a dumb idea, i was ambivilent about it, it's just me saying Dave's decision back fired massively, on him and the country. We sure as **** aint more United as a result of it.
Ditto Theresa and her needless election.

Another thought i had, can anyone name me a competent politician who you think would do a good job as PM? Just one. I'm genuinely struggling. Neither the Tories nor Labour have anyone. I thought May would be ok, if only on the "best of a bad bunch" principle, but she has been massively underwhelming. She managed an entire GE campaign without answering a single question at any point. People want to know what you think love, if you just dodge every single question you come across as a tosser who doesn't deem the little people worthy and they don't like that. The rest of her party are either too inexperienced or just wankers. The same goes for Labour. Chuka Amuna (spelling) seems fairly switched on and a decent bloke, a rare character trait for a politician, but he pulled out of the leadership race as soon as it started cos of media scrutiny so possibly the top job isn't for him.
The only other person I could think of is Ruth Davidson, the leader of the Scotish Tory party, she does seem like a very competent and honest person. I could well be wrong there. The problem is she isn't an MP.

We seem to be living in a time when there are no real strong/good politicians. Dave was mediocre, May is worse, Corbyn does seem like a nice bloke but I don't get the impression he has the tough streak you need to run a country. Even the States are no better. Bollock Obama was no more than bang average and we all know what Donald Trump is.

Is it social media and the increased scrutiny or just a coincidence?


One joke/test. You have 3 people to vote for in an election. One is a family man who served his country. One is a raging alcoholic with clinical depression and the last one is a crippled drug addict.

Let's be fair, common sense there says you vote for the first one.
It's a description of three leaders from the second world war. The first one is Adolf Hitler. The second one is Winston Churchill and the last one is Franklin D Roosevelt.
Would the last two have stood a chance today?

 

[weasel]

I am going to do a Jeremy Irons question but could someone explain who exactly the DEPT is owned to???

People buy Government Debt. They buy Bonds that Governments issue. These pay X% interest each year. Some is bought by individuals, some by companies and some by other countries. I think China owns most of the US debt. The oil states also own large chunks of other countries debts.

 

[yoda]

I am going to do a Jeremy Irons question but could someone explain who exactly the DEPT is owned to???

People buy Government Debt. They buy Bonds that Governments issue. These pay X% interest each year. Some is bought by individuals, some by companies and some by other countries. I think China owns most of the US debt. The oil states also own large chunks of other countries debts.

OK that's helped weasel, just when you mention China about dept. The john Pilger documentary about China do you think there is any meat behind it? ,or is it all hot air? I haven't a clue but it has opened my eyes and made me wonder.

 

[yoda]

Lol, mate most of the electorate over here vote purely based on the persons religion. Given my militant atheism I would appeal to neither side. Plus your average joe punter doesn't want the truth they want sugar coated promises that it will be fine and someone else will pay. I'd be as successful as your average Monster Raving looney candidate.

I still think you could tell them a few home truths :lol: After the Good Friday agreement was signed it was estimated it would take at least 20 years for it to fully bed down and the wedge would finally be removed from between the 2 community's. Now its quite clear the wedge has embedded even deeper and all it is now is a sectarian head count regarding voting.
This whole situation really is a clusterfuck.

 

[Gaz46&2]

I used to work in the Houses of Parliament and I know first hand how unpleasant MPs are. They're only interested in their personal business and not the interests of the electorate.

I hate the idea of our representative democracy, it's not really a democracy at all if 50% of the public have a government that they didn't vote for. And there is there is our monarchy, unelected peers, hereditary peers and those peers that represent the church. I say scrap the House of Lords, when a new law needs to be passed, or when the MPs want a pay rise, ballot the public and let us decide.

 

[weasel]

OK that's helped weasel, just when you mention China about dept. The john Pilger documentary about China do you think there is any meat behind it? ,or is it all hot air? I haven't a clue but it has opened my eyes and made me wonder.

I haven't seen it, TBH I haven't even heard of it. I'll look it up if I get time.

Now its quite clear the wedge has embedded even deeper and all it is now is a sectarian head count regarding voting.
This whole situation really is a clusterfuck.

It's Norn Iron mate, sadly a lot of people care more about getting one up on "them 'uns" than doing anything that will have even the remotest long term benefit for the country, or even themselves.
In all seriousness, what ****ing difference does it make whether you cross yourself or not before you worship a god who doesn't ****ing exist? I gave up on this country a long long time ago. If the general public gave a **** they would find new politicians and parties to vote for. As it is in 20 years they have gone from voting UU (if u're a prod) and SDLP (if u're Catholic) to voting DUP and SF. That's not progress. That's regression. They now vote for two parties that are MORE hardline and LESS appealing to the other side.
The best thing you could do with NI, is fly to Scandanavia or Switzerland (somewhere famed for stability and fairly sensible and dull politics) and get 5 of their politicians, bring them over here and give them complete dictatorial powers over everything. They would sort out the stupid OO marches, the residents committees who get offended by the direction the wind blows, the stupid bonfires, the naming of play grounds after convicted murderers (i mean seriously, we are supposed to be a civilised society and we name children's ****ing play grounds after murderers, that's so far beyond pathetic it's unbelievable), it would save paying muppets in Stormont who do no more than tub thumb, and it would stop the DUP forcing us all to live in their idea of a Free Presbyterian dream world were abortion is banned (ok, the Catholic Church like that) and gay marriage is the biggest sin in the world (the Catholic church agree on that, though in their defence SF do want same sex marriage legalised).
None of this will happen tho. We'll continue to drift along for a few more decades. It's pathetic.

I used to work in the Houses of Parliament and I know first hand how unpleasant MPs are. They're only interested in their personal business and not the interests of the electorate.

I'm not surprised at all.
I'm not on the electoral roll for precisely that reason. ALL politicans, from ALL parties, in ALL countries are self interested, egotistical, incompetent wankers. In NI, we get the bonus that they are also massive bigots.

I would have to agree on the royals and the House of Lords.

 

[yoda]

OK that's helped weasel, just when you mention China about dept. The john Pilger documentary about China do you think there is any meat behind it? ,or is it all hot air? I haven't a clue but it has opened my eyes and made me wonder.

I haven't seen it, TBH I haven't even heard of it. I'll look it up if I get time.

Now its quite clear the wedge has embedded even deeper and all it is now is a sectarian head count regarding voting.
This whole situation really is a clusterfuck.

It's Norn Iron mate, sadly a lot of people care more about getting one up on "them 'uns" than doing anything that will have even the remotest long term benefit for the country, or even themselves.
In all seriousness, what ****ing difference does it make whether you cross yourself or not before you worship a god who doesn't ****ing exist? I gave up on this country a long long time ago. If the general public gave a **** they would find new politicians and parties to vote for. As it is in 20 years they have gone from voting UU (if u're a prod) and SDLP (if u're Catholic) to voting DUP and SF. That's not progress. That's regression. They now vote for two parties that are MORE hardline and LESS appealing to the other side.
The best thing you could do with NI, is fly to Scandanavia or Switzerland (somewhere famed for stability and fairly sensible and dull politics) and get 5 of their politicians, bring them over here and give them complete dictatorial powers over everything. They would sort out the stupid OO marches, the residents committees who get offended by the direction the wind blows, the stupid bonfires, the naming of play grounds after convicted murderers (i mean seriously, we are supposed to be a civilised society and we name children's ****ing play grounds after murderers, that's so far beyond pathetic it's unbelievable), it would save paying muppets in Stormont who do no more than tub thumb, and it would stop the DUP forcing us all to live in their idea of a Free Presbyterian dream world were abortion is banned (ok, the Catholic Church like that) and gay marriage is the biggest sin in the world (the Catholic church agree on that, though in their defence SF do want same sex marriage legalised).
None of this will happen tho. We'll continue to drift along for a few more decades. It's pathetic.

I used to work in the Houses of Parliament and I know first hand how unpleasant MPs are. They're only interested in their personal business and not the interests of the electorate.

I'm not surprised at all.
I'm not on the electoral roll for precisely that reason. ALL politicans, from ALL parties, in ALL countries are self interested, egotistical, incompetent wankers. In NI, we get the bonus that they are also massive bigots.

I would have to agree on the royals and the House of Lords.

I know its a disaster it seems to be going backwards as time goes on. Both sides are now to deeply entrenched and won't give ground to either party as they're to afraid of losing face. I know what should be done. There's plenty of islands about. I would dump everyone of them out on it with no contact with the public for a week, one cup to share one bath one knife and fork and one plate between them all
and the same ****ing bog roll. If they don't agree after that I'd give them 2 weeks this time without contact until they reach agreement. Of course this would never happen but I guarantee you would have the desired affect and you'd soon start to see attitudes changing. I think all that anyone can do is hope that it will finally turn the corner and find the best future for everyone.
Here's the link to the trailer of the documentary its a very interesting watch if you ever get time. After watching that it makes me wonder is the war drums been out for North Korea really just a smokescreen to encircle China with aircraft carriers. I hope Pilger is wrong in what he's saying because if that starts no one will need to worry about Brexit anymore.

[youtube]G3hbtM_NJ0s[/youtube]

[youtube]https://youtu.be/G3hbtM_NJ0s[/youtube]

 

[weasel]

Will watch that when i get a chance. Brain is melted now.

Ohh and as for your idea of an island, it would work right up until someone grabbed the knife and threatened the other lot, then they would end up killing each other. Though.....that's probably an equally desirable outcome.

Could we do it hunger games style and if they were pissing us off and going nowhere we parachute in some killer hornets, or let the navy fire a few shells at them randomly? Imagine the viewing figures lol

 

[yoda]

Will watch that when i get a chance. Brain is melted now.

Ohh and as for your idea of an island, it would work right up until someone grabbed the knife and threatened the other lot, then they would end up killing each other. Though.....that's probably an equally desirable outcome.

Could we do it hunger games style and if they were pissing us off and going nowhere we parachute in some killer hornets, or let the navy fire a few shells at them randomly? Imagine the viewing figures lol

:lol: :lol: I knew you'd find the best solution :lol: :lol:

 

[Darth Bobby]

I haven't read this whole thread as my head still hurts from watching and listening to all of the media coverage, but I think James O Brien on LBC pretty much nailed it for me;

http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/james-obrien/james-obrien-nails-why-voters-chose-corbyn/

Really pleased the young people got out there and voted. Can't blame them for wanting change. Horror show.

 

[ODB]

Your graphs show that net borrowing was negative or low during the 1st 5 Labour years in office, except the last few when the Global Crisis hit and they needed to borrow to bail out the banks. The Tories came to power in 2010 and borrowing continues to be high.


Your graphs seem to contradict what your saying.

The crisis hit in 2008, Labour ran a deficit from 02/03, they also show how the debt has grown from 2001. So the graphs support what I am saying. Its also categorically shows that the debt we have now has not doubled under the Tories.

Labour choose to ignore the golden rule of Keynesian economics and now we have the traditional route in recession not available to us.

 

[weasel]

I haven't read this whole thread as my head still hurts from watching and listening to all of the media coverage, but I think James O Brien on LBC pretty much nailed it for me;

http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/james-obrien/james-obrien-nails-why-voters-chose-corbyn/

Really pleased the young people got out there and voted. Can't blame them for wanting change. Horror show.

Yer man is quite good, i just wish we (those of us nowhere near London) got to see and hear a bit more of him. He takes no prisoners in all his interviews and you need that with todays politicians and their bland non answers or waffling on about something barely related to the question.

Ohh and yes, i'm sick of politics too after the dullest GE campaign, Brexit and the Scottish independence ref. Can we all agree to no more elections or referendums for a few years please? (He says as the odds of another one this year are dropping by the day, nice one Theresa)

 

[Darth Bobby]

I haven't read this whole thread as my head still hurts from watching and listening to all of the media coverage, but I think James O Brien on LBC pretty much nailed it for me;

http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/james-obrien/james-obrien-nails-why-voters-chose-corbyn/

Really pleased the young people got out there and voted. Can't blame them for wanting change. Horror show.

Yer man is quite good, i just wish we (those of us nowhere near London) got to see and hear a bit more of him. He takes no prisoners in all his interviews and you need that with todays politicians and their bland non answers or waffling on about something barely related to the question.

Ohh and yes, i'm sick of politics too after the dullest GE campaign, Brexit and the Scottish independence ref. Can we all agree to no more elections or referendums for a few years please? (He says as the odds of another one this year are dropping by the day, nice one Theresa)

I've a feeling there's a lot more turmoil ahead! :shock: