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[darthberizing]

You know I can't say I'm shocked that people would have something negative to say. But seriously unless I'm mistakenly putting guns to people's heads I'm just drumming up interest in the site, and having fun.

I've also donated a prize to the BCAs, which I won, and then gave away again. I'm also running a contest giving away some acrylic cases and risers I got from Christian. So let's not paint the picture that I'm some insane capitalist. I'm actually a little sickened and disappointed for anyone to think I would pull a scheme or anything. This is why I videotape them and post them up.

To those who also think this is some elaborate scheme, here's the breakdown on the whole thing, I was keeping second and third place a secret but since you all want to give your opinions, I guess I need to ruin it so you can see what a "money maker" this is

Blue Stars - I paid $700. I sent it to AFA and had it authenticated and cased. $100
2nd Place - Biker Scout Polish Unart in all Blue - Paid $85
3rd Place - Princess Leia Unart - Paid $50

So I paid $935 total plus various shipping charges. I'm also paying 3 shipping charges to the winners. If Blue Stars goes overseas, that's $35 alone. Lets say they don't. I don't know. So it could be cheap as $15 , could be $50 max.

So forgetting for a second that items do increase in value I'm still maybe coming out $100-$150 total profit. If anyone looked at AJ's ebay ad. Blue Stars alone sold ungraded for $1025. So everyone touting this $600 price tag for him, please send me all you can. I'll make a standing offer.

What gets me is that I do these because I think they're fun. Nobody is forced and I've never collected double or triple the value of an item ever to pocket it. The Takara Leia I paid $500 for is the exception because I donated money to charity. I kept $400 of it , so I lost $100 technically. A recent sale of a Takara Leia brought $450 on Ebay so let's say I lost only $50. Anyone care? I doubt it. I didn't. I was thrilled that $380 got split between two deserving charities.

June - Refund is waiting if you want it. I have 4 people begging to get in. Just let me know, it's honestly not a concern.

You guys are entitled to your opinions , but don't make accusations based on no knowledge of the money involved, or how it's run. Lastly, keep in mind this is for fun and someone is going to get a Blue Stars for almost nothing.

Seriously I'm beyond words right now. I've quietly helped so many people , acted as a mailbox for some of you, resolved issues for others. And it's nice to see that after these years I can be accused of fixing a raffle or some elaborate profiteering scheme.

 

[mumbo]

Like I said I had not seen the link so was unaware of the rules or details behind the raffle and who was running it. I was merely stating that if this type of comp or raffle was to be held then you would want to be able to trust the organisers otherwise there could be a chance of getting ripped off. I also said that it was likely that this comp was being run by a trusted member so would therefore be a safe bet. So please don't take offence to my posts as there was no direct personal attack, just an opinion of needing to be cautious as there are scam artists out there.

FYI I would have had a punt on the leia if I was aware of its existence and whilst the uzay blue stars is a cool figure I won't be sticking my name into the hat.

 

[shawn_k]

I'm not trying to start anything again John and I think you've taken it a bit too personal. You are now the owner of TIG and as such you represent the site on a whole. This is how the raffles have always looked to me as an outsider and I've personally not chosen to participate. Unless someone calls me out on it.

1. You put item up FS
2. Item doesn't sell so you reduce price
3. Item still isn't selling at the price, so possibly another reduction
4. Item still hasn't sold, so let's hold a raffle. That way you still get your general price without having to reduce even further or deal with ebay.

The flaw I've always felt on this and you even pointed it out when someone else wanted to do their own raffle is that a 3rd party/person should be involved in determining the "market value." Yes, the Blue Stars James linked sold for that price, but what about this one? Unfortunately, ebay has removed the ability to see best offer prices, but it was obviously lower than $900. That would have helped determined possibly a middle ground on value.

Yes, someone does get a nice item for a good price, but the main thing at the end of it all is you getting close to what your original asking price is. You can break it down however you like, but that is what it looks like.

Again I'm not saying this as anything against you, but strictly on how it looks. Some people are going to be okay with it and others not so much. It's going to rub some people the wrong way when you start involving money like this.

Like I said above, it is what it is.

 

[tiefighterboy]

Your up to $1080 so far..............not bad.

 

[darthberizing]

Your up to $1080 so far..............not bad.

What exactly are you trying to say?


Shawn - Just FYI, I don't want to break Mete's trust (he's Mr.Fancypants) but I know what it sold for, not much less than asking. There was also one on RS that Michael sold in the $800's. I'm not just pulling prices out of thin air.

I do find it funny that everyone is assuming if something doesn't sell it's priced to high. We skewer anyone who says something is only worth what someone will pay. How's that different?

 

[tiefighterboy]

I agree with Shawn. People are either going to see nothing wrong with this and gamble...others are going to look at as a way to sell your item. This does not make you a bad guy either way. It is not even going on within this forum...so no worries. I started the thread to see if I was the only one that looked at a different way...and I am not alone. No malice what so ever.

 

[shawn_k]

Shawn - Just FYI, I don't want to break Mete's trust (he's Mr.Fancypants) but I know what it sold for, not much less than asking. There was also one on RS that Michael sold in the $800's. I'm not just pulling prices out of thin air.

I do find it funny that everyone is assuming if something doesn't sell it's priced to high. We skewer anyone who says something is only worth what someone will pay. How's that different?

Then I think you should have posted something about Mete evaluating it for you. Again, in my opinion, I think you need a 3rd non interested party actually determining the value in these raffles, but obviously someone who knows the market for the item in question. Just like how your own advice was in this thread.

http://www.imperialgunneryforum.com/t5191-raffle-frequency-requests-and-ideas

As for letting anyone doing it, that's not going to happen without some serious oversight. I'd automatically say that the prize would have to be in my hands first and that I would have to run the raffle (obviously I would not participate). I's also be the judge on it's value. This isn't a way to get more money than an item is worth.

It's a bit of a conflict of interest. Again this is only my opinion. I don't care for the whole raffle idea and I'm not your target audience.

 

[Joe]

I'm not trying to start anything again John and I think you've taken it a bit too personal. You are now the owner of TIG and as such you represent the site on a whole. This is how the raffles have always looked to me as an outsider and I've personally not chosen to participate. Unless someone calls me out on it.

1. You put item up FS
2. Item doesn't sell so you reduce price
3. Item still isn't selling at the price, so possibly another reduction
4. Item still hasn't sold, so let's hold a raffle. That way you still get your general price without having to reduce even further or deal with ebay.

The flaw I've always felt on this and you even pointed it out when someone else wanted to do their own raffle is that a 3rd party/person should be involved in determining the "market value." Yes, the Blue Stars James linked sold for that price, but what about this one? Unfortunately, ebay has removed the ability to see best offer prices, but it was obviously lower than $900. That would have helped determined possibly a middle ground on value.

Yes, someone does get a nice item for a good price, but the main thing at the end of it all is you getting close to what your original asking price is. You can break it down however you like, but that is what it looks like.

Again I'm not saying this as anything against you, but strictly on how it looks. Some people are going to be okay with it and others not so much. It's going to rub some people the wrong way when you start involving money like this.

Like I said above, it is what it is.

+1

That's how it looks to me as well Shawn, we do usually see the raffle prize in the RS classifieds a few weeks before the raffle happens.

I suppose at the end of the day if people are happy putting in to these then that's great and totally up to them as long as they all know it's just a fancy way of selling something, there are some really interesting viewpoints in this thread though and some things that really do make it look a little odd, the fact that nobody else but you can do one of these raffles on TIG and you alone seem set the values of the items you raffle could definitely look a bit suspect if you wanted it to. The only type of thing like this that I put in for was Edd's because he just took the money that people put in and bought the winner a figure with it. It all seemed a lot more straightforward but Edd was still "accused of fixing a raffle or some elaborate profiteering scheme" as you put it.

None of the posts in this thread will change anyone's opinion though, if the people want to gamble, gamble they will. There is a reason why bookies exist after all. It would just be nice if the raffles were called "Ok this didn't sell, I wanted $800 for it so I guess I might be off, let's get an independent appraisal that I am happy with and you can all buy a raffle ticket to win it" then everyone knows the score I guess.

 

[darthberizing]

Shawn - Just FYI, I don't want to break Mete's trust (he's Mr.Fancypants) but I know what it sold for, not much less than asking. There was also one on RS that Michael sold in the $800's. I'm not just pulling prices out of thin air.

I do find it funny that everyone is assuming if something doesn't sell it's priced to high. We skewer anyone who says something is only worth what someone will pay. How's that different?

Then I think you should have posted something about Mete evaluating it for you. Again, in my opinion, I think you need a 3rd non interested party actually determining the value in these raffles, but obviously someone who knows the market for the item in question. Just like how your own advice was in this thread.

http://www.imperialgunneryforum.com/t5191-raffle-frequency-requests-and-ideas

As for letting anyone doing it, that's not going to happen without some serious oversight. I'd automatically say that the prize would have to be in my hands first and that I would have to run the raffle (obviously I would not participate). I's also be the judge on it's value. This isn't a way to get more money than an item is worth.

It's a bit of a conflict of interest. Again this is only my opinion. I don't care for the whole raffle idea and I'm not your target audience.

I said Mete sold that other one. I didn't say he evaluated it. Please re-read my comments.

And yes, there should be oversight on value. I guessed people would trust that I know the market , have proof of completed sales, and am not out to scam anyone. Guess I got one wrong. I get the whole "Who watches the Watchmen" but seriously if you said a Luke Jedi is worth "X" and I questioned you, I'm sure you'd feel slighted as well.


TFB and Mumbo - No worries and I know you're just giving your opinions. If you're against them, that's cool. You've got every right.

What I don't like are the comments about selling for double then it's values, possible scams, etc.. That's not cool.



Joe O - If you want to pick apart my stuff and figure out how much I've made over value I welcome it. You seem pretty sure that it's the case. So please point out the item, where I valued it, and the "correct" value by your research. If you're going to make a sweeping statement, i'll simply ask for you to verify the theory. Again, sometimes things don't sell at market value.

 

[darthberizing]

BTW

If after the sale of the item and shipping I've made ANY unwarranted profit, i'll happily donate it to charity.

So Joe-O balls in your court. Let's see how much will go to a good cause.

 

[shawn_k]

I said Mete sold that other one. I didn't say he evaluated it. Please re-read my comments.

And yes, there should be oversight on value. I guess people would trust that I know the market , have proof of completed sales, and am not out to scam anyone. Guess I got one wrong. I get the whole "Who watches the Watchmen" but seriously if you said a Luke Jedi is worth "X" and I questioned you, I'm sure you'd feel slighted as well.

That is different though John. If i was selling you a particular LJ item and you asked someone else on value, I would not feel slighted at all. IMO that's good. I get others opinions all the time before I buy something that I'm not 100% sure on.

 

[edd_jedi]

I don't think anybody is calling you a scammer mate. But these points of advice are seriously worth considering, which I think is what most people are getting at:

1) To run an unlicensed raffle, 100% of the money 'raised' has to be given to the winner. There cannot be any profit made at all. So really you should have itemised the prizes/postage etc before you started. People aren't trying to spoil the fun - they quite rightly want to know where the $1200 is going.

2) As pointed out due to the high value of the prizes/raffle, although nobody is implying that you will cheat, it is much better for everybody's peace of mind to draw the raffle live, so that there can be no disputes (I'm sure we can all think of sad little pricks that will try and turn anything into a conspiracy theory, so it's better not to give them any potential ammo.) I used an online live stream to do the draw, as even a pre-recorded video can be rigged.

No malice intended in any of the posts that I've seen so far.

 

[darthberizing]

I don't think anybody is calling you a scammer mate. But these points of advice are seriously worth considering, which I think is what most people are getting at:

1) To run an unlicensed raffle, 100% of the money 'raised' has to be given to the winner. There cannot be any profit made at all. So really you should have itemised the prizes/postage etc before you started. People aren't trying to spoil the fun - they quite rightly want to know where the $1200 is going.

I can see that. I assumed that people trusted me. It seems that some will always come up with a theory. If I do another (at this point I may just not) it'll be very itemized.

2) As pointed out due to the high value of the prizes/raffle, although nobody is implying that you will cheat, it is much better for everybody's peace of mind to draw the raffle live, so that there can be no disputes (I'm sure we can all think of sad little pricks that will try and turn anything into a conspiracy theory, so it's better not to give them any potential ammo.) I used an online live stream to do the draw, as even a pre-recorded video can be rigged.

No malice intended in any of the posts that I've seen so far.

I'm not sure how I can stream the winner. Honestly if people are that worried I'm cheating, I'd rather not do them. I can't be more honest than I'm being by taping it. Considering the randomness of the winners I cant see anyone thinking it was intentional.

 

[Joe]

Joe O - If you want to pick apart my stuff and figure out how much I've made over value I welcome it. You seem pretty sure that it's the case. So please point out the item, where I valued it, and the "correct" value by your research. If you're going to make a sweeping statement, i'll simply ask for you to verify the theory. Again, sometimes things don't sell at market value.

I really am not that fussed if you have made money on the raffles John, even if you have, you would have only been doing it to members of your own forum so that would be on your shoulders only besides if they willingly put in it doesn't really matter I suppose does it? I was just asking if people found it ok that the person doing the raffle set the items value or not. If people say yes sure then cool! Obviously more people than you think have issues with the raffles otherwise we wouldn't be here, as an outsider I can see why Dennis posted what he did, same for Shawn, Todd etc, not everyone likes the raffles BUT as you said - no guns to peoples heads on your part. It is a voluntary raffle and if people don't want in they won't bother with it.

BTW

If after the sale of the item and shipping I've made ANY unwarranted profit, i'll happily donate it to charity.

So Joe-O balls in your court. Let's see how much will go to a good cause.

The ball is in my court as to you making unwarranted profit? Does that mean you want me and everyone else to buy a ticket John? :lol:

 

[shawn_k]

I don't see anyone accusing you of cheating John, but unfortunately that did happen to Edd from a member on your board.

All this was meant to be was a discussion on raffles and again this is turning into a way over blown debate. John, there are people that love your raffles. More power to them, but some also are going to feel this way. You might take some of the advice here if you want to try to improve how they come off, but really it does not matter. I'd be more concerned if you had a thread like this on your board before pulling the plug on them.

 

[tiefighterboy]

Shawn is right.....it was just a mild discussion. I just found the whole thing odd.

 

[darthberizing]

Fair enough guys.

I'll still make my offer to Joe O. If he wants to go through the raffles, figure out value, then what I collected, and show I overvalued anything I'll donate it all to charity.

 

[Jedi_june]

I just have to say that I met John not so long ago for a sale, and he's a very nice guy even thru me a couple of bonus figs. It's a raffle no big deal and nobody is forced to pay. So I have to take back what I said about it not being genuine just beacuse he's selling slots, he's done other raffles and donated money. He's a cool dude that's all I'm saying, and I know you guys didn't mean any harm and didn't mean to be malice in anyway. Lets keep it peace.

 

[Richard_H]

Shame in this day and age of scamming twats that we can't seem to trust the good guys anymore. Raffles are what they are, take a chance and win a prize for what you paid.
If I did a raffle and people insisted on live streamed videos I'd refund them and tell them where to go.

 

[edd_jedi]

99% of people do trust you, unfortunately as I've found out the hard way on more than one occasion it only takes one idiot to spoil it for everyone else, so it's best to do it in a way that is completely transparent.

By the way I'm not trying to preach here, as I'm sure you know I got shot down in flames when I first did a raffle, just trying to share my experiences.