another palitoy vinyl caped jawa on the bay....
- Thread starter mr_palitoy
- Start date
Darth Wensleydale
Sith Lord
Nobody knows yet. There is supposedly a MOC out there and whilst I've seen a photo of it and it looked alright from the front nobody is really sure whether its genuine. The person who sold it is also a known repro seller/dodgy dealer.
sith-smith
Grand Master
- Joined
- Oct 25, 2006
- Messages
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ok, where to begin.............
Torres is not the source of the Jawa. He bought it for several hundred of another person and then offered it on the open market.
I know the guy who bought it. He did not pay £8k, or anywhere near.
As for the value of a AFA'd Jawa...I think a five figure sum is a bit far fetched.
Yes it's rare, rewrites the history books etc, but so what? It has Iconic value to very few collectors, and even fewer would be desperate to have one in their collection to the point where they'd throw any stupid sum at it.
Don't get me wrong, it would go high, but only super high if two super rich super collectors with a desire to own the rarest pieces out there ended up in a bidding war. (enough supers in that sentence? :lol: )
As for the Jawa vs Fett
I'm fairly certain there are three confirmed Fetts, however the status of fett in general, and the large number of people who are trying to put together a 30 back set would ensure that competition for the fett would be intense.
I've held both the VC jawa in question and a 30 back fett in my hands, and I know which is the cooler of the two........and it ain't the jawa! :wink:
I really don't think it's as clear cut as 'the jawa is rarer so will easily go for more' That philosophy just doesn't really apply in the hobby.
Torres is not the source of the Jawa. He bought it for several hundred of another person and then offered it on the open market.
I know the guy who bought it. He did not pay £8k, or anywhere near.
As for the value of a AFA'd Jawa...I think a five figure sum is a bit far fetched.
Yes it's rare, rewrites the history books etc, but so what? It has Iconic value to very few collectors, and even fewer would be desperate to have one in their collection to the point where they'd throw any stupid sum at it.
Don't get me wrong, it would go high, but only super high if two super rich super collectors with a desire to own the rarest pieces out there ended up in a bidding war. (enough supers in that sentence? :lol: )
As for the Jawa vs Fett
I'm fairly certain there are three confirmed Fetts, however the status of fett in general, and the large number of people who are trying to put together a 30 back set would ensure that competition for the fett would be intense.
I've held both the VC jawa in question and a 30 back fett in my hands, and I know which is the cooler of the two........and it ain't the jawa! :wink:
I really don't think it's as clear cut as 'the jawa is rarer so will easily go for more' That philosophy just doesn't really apply in the hobby.
mr_palitoy
Sith Lord
I stand corrected. How much did it go for then?
Jason
Jason
Darth Wensleydale
Sith Lord
AnakinPOTF said:
Palitoy. There is a chance but I believe the release dates were different and by the time Palitoy's 12's were released the cloth cape had already appeared in the US. Then again the VC's didn't all just disappear into thin air if they appeared on an Aussie ESB card (albeit a different cape shade) and there is talk of a Meccano VC as well.
The whole Palitoy VC saga will rumble on until a further MOC is found and verified or the existing one is looked at by a fair number of people or AFA'd. I think the doubt is down to the Torres involvement and the fact that 'almost' undetectable VC Jawa reseals have been seen before in the US (including a Palitoy VC Jawa reseal), so some people are rightly wary.
Darth Wensleydale said:
I personally wouldnt hold my breath on finding a Palitoy Vinyl caped Jawa if the only person who has had an example was known for re-carding figures. It might just be wishfull thinking on all the Palitoy collectors behalf's. but i suppose there is always room for hope.
Could you imagine how much cash would be needed to buy an ESB, Palitoy, Meccano and Kenner version of the wee fecker. You would likely have to win the Euro lottery.
Thanks again.
Grant.
sith-smith
Grand Master
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- 7,592
Well, like I said, Torres was not the original source, more of just a go between.
The main factors against it's existence are...
1) up to this date, not one has been found and verified. Compare that to other iconic figures such as the 30 back Fett, or LHH 12 back!
2) No old school collector ever remembers seeing one.
3) The delay the DWD mentioned
In it's favour are
1) Countless eyewitness accounts like Phantomshadow's
2) IT's appearance on the 20 back and the Death Star
3) Anything's possible!
Like with many things I'm sure time will tell. I don't think it's verification will have a huge impact on the hobby in general though
The main factors against it's existence are...
1) up to this date, not one has been found and verified. Compare that to other iconic figures such as the 30 back Fett, or LHH 12 back!
2) No old school collector ever remembers seeing one.
3) The delay the DWD mentioned
In it's favour are
1) Countless eyewitness accounts like Phantomshadow's
2) IT's appearance on the 20 back and the Death Star
3) Anything's possible!
Like with many things I'm sure time will tell. I don't think it's verification will have a huge impact on the hobby in general though
sith-smith said:
Hello,
I agree that it wont make much of an impact but i bet every palitoy collector would love to find one.
I dont collect Palitoys but i would love to own as well.
Like i said mate there is always room for hope.
Grant.
Like Phantomshadow, i owned a vinyl caped Jawa when i was a kid and iam convinced it was on a Palitoy card.
Just like Phantomshadow i hadnt seen the Kenner logo until i started collecting Star Wars figures in 1999.
I was a big Action Man collector as a kid and was very used to seeing the Palitoy logo on the boxes and remember the star wars figures having the same logo even back then.
Of course there is a possibility that the Jawa was a Kenner card but as i say before i cant remember seeing the Kenner logo has a child.
Just like Phantomshadow i hadnt seen the Kenner logo until i started collecting Star Wars figures in 1999.
I was a big Action Man collector as a kid and was very used to seeing the Palitoy logo on the boxes and remember the star wars figures having the same logo even back then.
Of course there is a possibility that the Jawa was a Kenner card but as i say before i cant remember seeing the Kenner logo has a child.
20backdPb said:
When i was a kid i got loads of carded Starwars figures but i dont remember seeing any logo on the cards.
Since all of them were bought in the UK from local stores i suppose they would have all been Palitoys.
When i started collecting figures it was from the ESB line most likely on Jedi cards.
Grant.
As a kid i only had 11 Star Wars figures and were bought as soon as they came out.
Out of the first 12 the only one i didnt have was Leia as it was seen as a doll ( stupid i know ) but an eight year old boy seen with a girl action figure, was not the done thing.
All were on the twelve back and i can clearly remember them being on Palitoy cards.
I can even tell you which were the first two i bought.
They were Luke and Ben.
Funny how childhood memories can be so vivid.
Cant tell what happened last year though.
Out of the first 12 the only one i didnt have was Leia as it was seen as a doll ( stupid i know ) but an eight year old boy seen with a girl action figure, was not the done thing.
All were on the twelve back and i can clearly remember them being on Palitoy cards.
I can even tell you which were the first two i bought.
They were Luke and Ben.
Funny how childhood memories can be so vivid.
Cant tell what happened last year though.
PhantomShadow
Jedi Knight
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2006
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- 336
sith-smith said:
Define old school collector?
also someone mentioned that the Jawas that hit the UK on 12 backs had the Kenner logo - why?
I mean, the VC seems fairly rare on US card and obviously over the years far more cloth capes where made, so why would the UK get Kenner carded VC Jawa and no other character on Kenner card? Or did we?
Can't say I've ever seen a 12 back kenner with a UK price on it
PhantomShadow said:
I think Gary means collectors who were actively collecting (not just buying to play with) when the toys were in the shops, its easy to forget that people, including adults were collecting toys even back then, not as common place as now, but it was going on.
I know of one guy who bought shipping boxes of 12 backs, and still has them unopened in his stock room.
I had a VC jawa, it was the 4th figure I had, but I have no recolection of what the card was.
I am of the opinion that kenner stock was imported before the Palitoy cards were released.
Darth Wensleydale
Sith Lord
This is an interesting one from just over a year ago:
As I recall the seller was not a collector and had not dealt in Star Wars figures on their account previously. They were selling a set of the first twelve Palitoy figures for a client/friend. All had their bubbles sealed but the figures had been removed and displayed/played with by means of a little door cut in the back. The owner must have looked after the packaging from the start as everything appeared in good order.
This Jawa was described in a way similar to the other figures and no big deal was made of it with no reserve being added. The bubble is the correct VC Jawa one fully sealed to the card and the Jawa was 100% genuine. It sold for around £350 which, at the time was a little less than the price of an AFA 85 loose VC Jawa.
Two things could be true:
1) This was an opened but genuine Palitoy VC Jawa being sold on behalf of the original owner with no real knowledge of its potential significance. The figure was the original one supplied with the card (as with the other 12 backs) and everything had been very well looked after.
2) The seller/owner discovered a cloth cape Palitoy Jawa in a VC Jawa bubble. They discard the figure and obtain a genuine VC Jawa and swop it out. They then list the figure in the same way as the other 12 backs referring to the cape as plastic (but thats about it in terms of special description) with a 99p start and no reserve.
Anyone familiar with Occam's Razor? Sometimes the simple explanation is true no matter how much we try and explain things away.
Just a thought :wink:
As I recall the seller was not a collector and had not dealt in Star Wars figures on their account previously. They were selling a set of the first twelve Palitoy figures for a client/friend. All had their bubbles sealed but the figures had been removed and displayed/played with by means of a little door cut in the back. The owner must have looked after the packaging from the start as everything appeared in good order.
This Jawa was described in a way similar to the other figures and no big deal was made of it with no reserve being added. The bubble is the correct VC Jawa one fully sealed to the card and the Jawa was 100% genuine. It sold for around £350 which, at the time was a little less than the price of an AFA 85 loose VC Jawa.
Two things could be true:
1) This was an opened but genuine Palitoy VC Jawa being sold on behalf of the original owner with no real knowledge of its potential significance. The figure was the original one supplied with the card (as with the other 12 backs) and everything had been very well looked after.
2) The seller/owner discovered a cloth cape Palitoy Jawa in a VC Jawa bubble. They discard the figure and obtain a genuine VC Jawa and swop it out. They then list the figure in the same way as the other 12 backs referring to the cape as plastic (but thats about it in terms of special description) with a 99p start and no reserve.
Anyone familiar with Occam's Razor? Sometimes the simple explanation is true no matter how much we try and explain things away.
Just a thought :wink:
David Tree
Jedi Master
ahhhhh maybe it's the hangover I'm nursing from last night's company works do, but haven't we trodden over all this before? and before that and possibly again before that?
David Tree
Jedi Master
elliott said:
I'm with Elliott on this one.
How many of us kept the figure on the card long enough to study the logo's etc? Mine were ripped off within seconds in excitement and whilst the cardback were almost always kept for figure offers I'm sure there were more Kenner cards in there, than people appreciate.
Although Palitoy produced packaging for the domestic market, it had bring Kenner in by the container load just to keep up and meet demand.
With reference to the use of figures in packaging shots etc, I personally don't feel this has much weight as product and packaging development is so far in advance of release dates. It's not something you can do a week in advance. For example, I'm working on Mothers Day branding now as we speak (or should be), it's 3 months away and is considered to be leaving it a bit late already. The Christmas deadline was 1st of July.
A blue Snag was used on the 20 back Meccano cards, but that does not mean a blue Snag must be on a square cut card.
The UK was also behind the US in release of product, which could have possibly affected what was shipped from where and by what date.
But I think the most damning is that you have several collectors, some of whom dealers, who have been actively collecting for such a long time before the Dawn Of Palitoy Carded Zealots and that ANY vinyl caped Jawas found on card in the UK would have been snapped up as a hot item to have or sell - Kenner or Palitoy and the fact that none of these guys have ever seen/ sold/ come across one is pretty good point of view to take on board.
I'm not saying it's not possible, infact there have been a couple of great discoveries this year with the Bi-logo DV TIE and there is a big one still to break hopefully soon, but the it needs to be appreciated that the search for these has been going on a long time in the UK - regardless of it being on a Palitoy card or not.
Just a few thoughts, not that anyone ever listens :twisted:
Darth Wensleydale
Sith Lord
We love a good myth in this country, be it the Loch Ness Monster or big cats prowling the moors. Its a fun subject and it would be a shame if there were no discoveries left to make. I'm certainly keeping an open mind :wink:
