Ahsoka

Michael Sith

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Get your opinion and exactly that it's an opinion, however, I'm not blindly accepting what Disney is producing, as stated I am enjoying watching it, yes there is place for criticism as there always is. I'm simply stating there is a natural progression as this is Disney and there is a much wider audience for them to appeal to that don't have the background to SW, don't collect, don't become a member of a forum, but do want to watch SW.
again I'm really enjoying it, if I wasn't there is a red button on my remote where I can switch it off 😄
 

monkey_roo

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Clearly the issue for Disney and TV shows is how to produce sufficient volumes of 'stuff' at fixed costs that hit Disney+ and go after the demographics that their data points them at - to do that I a fairly sure things start to become formulaic, that means there is less room for originality and experimentation and so forth. While there is nothing wrong with some of the current shows, all quite watchable, but a lot (not just SW) are forgettable - the writing unimaginative in places and all quite predictable. Like everything its a numbers game, a balancing act and given the number of viewing flops they've had of late there will be less inclination to push the boat out.

Personally I would prefer to see a slowdown in content volume in exchange for higher quality output, a more strategic approach to their world building - but I a sure this sort of debate must be going on, on a daily basis at the House of Mouse.

Bottom line for me is, the current shows are enjoyable, but more forgettable than memorable.
 

Twin30mm

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I can understand Disney wanting SW to widen its appeal to more of the so-called 'normies'.
Therefore, it seems strange that they would focus their recent prime D+ shows on characters that the vast majority of the 'normies' wouldn't know or care about (Andor, Ahsoka etc.).
Seems a bit of an odd strategy.

A strategy that doesn't seem to be paying off. According to Neilson, Ahsoka has already dropped out of the Top 10 after only its second week.
Unfortunately, a lot of the audience seems to be hitting that red remote button.

I agree with monkey_roo that SW needs to slowdown and go for the 'quality over quantity' approach.
If that means going back to the two year 'event movie' schedule, then so be it.
Rather that, than seeing SW slowing fade away on a failing streaming service.

The 'enjoyable but forgettable' approach doesn't seem to be cutting it, I'm afraid.
 

Cazza

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Just remember the Neilson ratings aren't straight forward at all- it's up against loads of shows with loads of episodes available all at once. It dropped out after two episodes, so it literally had two episodes available against shows like Suits, which has just become available on Netflix and has 135 episodes. After 3 episodes and a quick bit of maths, Ashoka was at no.2 for TV series per episode (162m mins per episode), marginally behind One Piece (Netflix 164m views per episode). Not amazing, but pretty decent.
 

Cazza

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Really enjoyed the last episode- great action and leaves us on a multi- cliffhanger, with loads of questions needing to be answered.

Lots of great stuff in this series, production values and design was superb, exciting set pieces etc. Good story overall, but my main gripe would be some of the pacing was slow, especially some of the conversations between Ahsoka and Sabine, which sometimes felt a bit stilted. Would've definitely benefited from being a movie IMHO.

Can't wait to see what happens next :cool:
 

monkey_roo

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Feeling a bit mixed about this last episode and the series overall.

Lots to like, the action was great, throwbacks to the CW and Rebels were fantastic (I love those shows), but as fun as it was you always got the sense it exists to set up the big movie event - nothing wrong with that, but after eight episodes to have not had that big moment, that major conflict that is the pay off for what has been a slow build up feels unsatisfying - although a lot of the buildup has been fun and well done.

The cliffhanger is good and certainly sets up what comes next - although the sad passing of Ray Stevenson may mean a change of plans or recasting etc. but overall maybe this should have been a 120min TV movie - part 1 of a 2 or 3 part story and I think would have worked better. Some of the episode ending moments really missed the mark and felt like someone said 'that's a good place to stop for now' rather than looking at the beats and ending on dramatic moments that draw you back, very much a TV exec saying we have 8, 40ish min slots to fill, make it work, rather than letting the story dictate the pace, which is what all writers would prefer.

Maybe overall this is the crux of the discussion around SW TV shows, absolutely nothing wrong with Ahoska as a show, some really fun moments, but it also felt stretched and more like the opening gambit in a chess game rather than the main event.

Now, that said - I am looking forward to the main event, seeing how Thrawn sews the seeds for the First Order (got to happen), how the heroes from three shows come together to put that Blue SOB down once and for all in what I am hoping is a major conflict moment, lost of ships and lasers and some old school SW fun.

The one thing I really loved about Ahsoka was the merch - really felt both Hasbro and Lego pushed the boat out and have given us some great sets, ships and characters - can't knock that :)
 

lejackal

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Do you know what it felt like? It felt like they'd seen how well received Picard was and tried to replicate some of that style in the SW universe (and no I don't just mean fallen Jedi commander riker)

It wasn't truly terrible but I'm edging closer and closer to not bothering to finish the series with this stuff.
I can't even not moan on the internet these days (although I do at least think I'm a good bit from conspiracy theory madness still, honestly guys and gals (and others), chill the **** out)
 

lejackal

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Oh, one major moan - whoever is choreographing the lightsaber stuff needs a slap, it's gotten to be slow, boring, unrealistic, repetitive and slow. Yeah, I said slow twice. That's how slow it is. Maybe the actors limitations? Don't know, I'd rather it was sped up, or even CGI, but for the love of the force dont make it boring, predictabl, ponderous and crap. Ashoka is supposed to be able to go toe to toe with prime Vader/Anakin.
 

UKS

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There was no resolution! Since I don't know the characters I have no idea why the general was so moved by Bridger turning up.

Also leaving the Ray Stevenson plot line unresolved seems a cheat. Especially now we'll need a recast after his untimely demise.

And why did he leave his Padawan behind? Surely she should have shuffled off with Thrawn? They were my two favourite characters with perhaps something interesting to say - but never resolved it!

And finally the power up of elisabeth was very very computer game cheese. SW has always shown power comes at a cost - for Jedi and Sith. She seemed to just get turbo charged with no cost. also I found the force use a little annoying as it was with contorted and strained faces when one is supposed to be claim and at peace. Again it felt a bit overpowered like a marvel movie Where everyone can fly and shoot laser beams out of their hands. There has been a majesty to the force use in the OT and a little in the PT - this feels like its just a normal thing.

Ps I did enjoy it but Ashoka has been a bit ruined by realising it's effectively Whoopi Goldberg playing Guinan from Star Trek.... with lightsabers. I lolled when Thrawn said she was like Anakin when in this show there
Couldn't be too less alike characters.

Liked the final Hayden cameo - but they can't do Luke bad. He can't come visit Ashoka and leave his own damn son lost and alone!

I do feel that Filoni does write a bit fanboyish, and he is constantly trying to put his stuff at the heart rather than the OT. E.g everyone
Saying "for the empire" rather than the point of the empire being a North Korean style personality cult.
 

welshwookie

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It was ok, and really exactly as we expected it to end. Jow they will follow with Baylan after Ray, I'm not sure. However one thing is obvious. Disney need a lot more Hayden, as its a treat seeing him in episodes. He certainly needs his own series.
 

Twin30mm

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So, essentially it took eight episodes for Ahsoka to swap locations with Thrawn.
Hmmmm.

Overall the series was OK. Great visuals and score. Its hardly been the worst DisneySW offering (not a big accolade, I know).

It just suffers from the usual curse of poor writing and being dragged out to fulfill the D+ content requirements.

As others have said, this would have benefited immeasurably from being condensed into a two hour movie.

The sooner Disney+ dies the better.
Hopefully, then we can go back to proper SW on the big screen, where it belongs.
 

Pomse2001

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There was no resolution! Since I don't know the characters I have no idea why the general was so moved by Bridger turning up.

Also leaving the Ray Stevenson plot line unresolved seems a cheat. Especially now we'll need a recast after his untimely demise.

And why did he leave his Padawan behind? Surely she should have shuffled off with Thrawn? They were my two favourite characters with perhaps something interesting to say - but never resolved it!

And finally the power up of elisabeth was very very computer game cheese. SW has always shown power comes at a cost - for Jedi and Sith. She seemed to just get turbo charged with no cost. also I found the force use a little annoying as it was with contorted and strained faces when one is supposed to be claim and at peace. Again it felt a bit overpowered like a marvel movie Where everyone can fly and shoot laser beams out of their hands. There has been a majesty to the force use in the OT and a little in the PT - this feels like its just a normal thing.

Ps I did enjoy it but Ashoka has been a bit ruined by realising it's effectively Whoopi Goldberg playing Guinan from Star Trek.... with lightsabers. I lolled when Thrawn said she was like Anakin when in this show there
Couldn't be too less alike characters.

Liked the final Hayden cameo - but they can't do Luke bad. He can't come visit Ashoka and leave his own damn son lost and alone!

I do feel that Filoni does write a bit fanboyish, and he is constantly trying to put his stuff at the heart rather than the OT. E.g everyone
Saying "for the empire" rather than the point of the empire being a North Korean style personality cult.
Maybe thrawn tried to make ashoka angry or get her out of focus of what she was doing when he said she was like anakin, I guess she would never be like anakin because he got evil and turned to the dark side :unsure:
 

Pomse2001

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Well I think the series was okay but nothing more and I fear disney will kill thrawn soon. I really hope they will keep him alive for a very long time and give him huge power to kick ass in the galaxy for many years. As I understand it takes place 9-12 years aby and episode 7,8 and 9 (the worst star wars movies ever) where palpatine is back takes place 34 years aby, so there is many years between the series and the movies where disney can do something and will they follow the thrawn trilogy :unsure: I hope not because then after only 3 movies thrawn is gone :rolleyes:
 

UKS

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My fear is this is Filoni starting to explain "Somehow, Palpatine returned."

But if does that he needs to kill all these characters off. Which I can't see him doing.
 

BabyAckbar

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There is actually quite a bit of debate about what exactly happened to Ahsoka after falling off the cliff, not least because it absolutely is not explained in the episode. Did she dream her visit to what we presume was the World Between Worlds? Was she hallucinating? Having a Force vision? Or was she actually there? We don't know. If she was actually there, how did this happen, since it certainly wasn't via the same method Ezra used in 'Rebels'? Until this is definitively answered by Filoni, my observation is valid; we don't know how long she spent underwater.

As far as stretching credulity, every work of fiction asks us to suspend our disbelief to a greater or lesser extent. The better the work, the more easily this is achieved. However, once the 'rules' of the fictional world / universe and its canon have been well established over a period of several decades, anything that's wildly different or greatly deviates from that requires extra skill and talent on the part of the creators to bring their audience along with them for the ride or risk them crashing out of the experience. Since we have never seen anything even remotely similar to the hyperspace whales in any of the live action Star Wars canon (creatures that float in the air rather than fly, as though possessing built-in natural repulsorlifts, which can also somehow 'fly' though the vacuum of space under their own power, and which can also access and traverse hyperspace 'naturally'), once again my observation is an entirely valid one. Additionally, and as I made very clear in my post, the views I was expressing about the episodes were my own opinions and thoughts on them. I'm allowed to do that, just as you're allowed to hold different opinions. However, observe that I don't do it by making patronising or insulting comments (you generously implied that I'm a misogynist without knowing the first thing about me) whose sole purpose can only be an attempt to demean or belittle a differing view point. I have no problem with you holding a different opinion to mine or in expressing that, but it would be nice if you extended the same courtesy to me that I am extending to you, and not simply assume that just because you don't agree with me that you must be correct and have a right to patronise and insult me.

I would also ask that if you are going to criticise something that I wrote, that you do in fact criticise what I actually wrote and not something that I didn't. I never claimed there was anything about men not being able to use the Force in this episode. What I actually said was that:

'the rumours about them 'killing' the Force and shifting the action to the other galaxy where only women can wield the Force's replacement (unless you're a villain, in which case men can... of course [must smash that nasty imaginary patriarchy with a load of hateful misandry]), sounds only too plausible...'

That would be 'rumours', not episodic content. And those rumours are currently making the rounds in alleged leaks from inside Disney / Lucasfilm, regardless of whether or not you are aware of them. Kathleen Kennedy's Lucasfilm has by this point got a very long and unpleasant history of misandry, and if you are not aware of it then you haven't been paying attention. Of course a woman could save another drowning person, but when your entire show comprises an unrealistic and wholly disproportionate number of women in all positions of power, in all major hero roles, and in which all of the adult men are relegated to either very secondary characters or villains (we can hardly count Ezra in the first 6 episodes since he's barely been in them), then I think we can safely say we're starting to see a pattern.

And for you to conclude that pointing out yet more Lucasfilm / KK misandry somehow equates to (by implication me having) a 'fear of women' is as insulting as it is wholly inaccurate. I hate bigotry in all its forms, including both misogyny and misandry. Star Wars, whilst predominantly a male brand when it comes to the toys, always was made for everyone when George was in charge of it. KK however pinned her colours firmly to the mast with her 'The Force is Female' nonsense, and she has successfully transformed a multi-billion dollar IP into a multi-million dollar one as the audience has been driven away in their droves (the latest evidence? The ratings for 'Ahsoka' are in and in its first 6 days it performed worse than 'The Book of Boba Fett', 'Obi-Wan Kenobi' and 'The Mandalorian' season 3).
More hogwash.

There is no agenda. Women are simply getting more opportunities - nothing wrong with that ans in fact it is about time.

As to Star Wars - the Force went "female" a very long time, under George Lucas' guidance long before MeToo or whatever conspiracy itbis that worries you. Ahsoka was Star Wars for years and her character kept the franchise alive after the Prequels until two men tried to kill it. Two straight white men.
Magic
Okay so I misread a bit. Now that I've read it probably it is actually worse.

The Nightsisters Magic is not a "Force replacement". It is a different use of it and it has been around for a long time too. The all female society was created by a white guy. The Nightsister were a big part of TCW when a white ran the company.

Also, if there was "feminist agenda" then why is a female character being shown as the first ever in the franchise to be so rubbish at using the Force?

There is hatred on display, no doubt about it, but it isn't coming from Lucasfilm or Disney.
 

BabyAckbar

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Now I am very confused. This was announced as a limited series but there is way that Filoni is going to be able to wrap this up in a movie.

Mando, Grogu - Skeleton Crew and I assume a few guys from Boba Fett, - Hera, Ezra etc and enough screen time to show just how dangerous Thrawns's mind is - and now Ahsoka and Sabine stranded anD obviously having to go up againt Skoll and Shin. And then bring them home.

The original plan of a crossover series might have had the space for it all but a two hour movie? And a movie where the average punter who doesn't watch the shows or even have Disney+ will not have a clue what is going on.

Surely the suits can see how a movie is a problem.

any idea what disney will do with Baylan Skoll ? :unsure:
Well Filoni not Disney but yeah - that is a conundrum.

I guess they could find a reason to put him in a mask and have another actor in the role but I hope not.

Only way I can see is to give his quest to Shin. Which I guess would cause another problem - Filoni obviously has a plan her by strandingbher there too. That would mean altering or abandoning that idea.

I really hope there is another season of Ahsoka.

And I pray Filoni get to do the crossover as a series instead.
 

BabyAckbar

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Star Wars has changed (for good or bad), but that doesn't mean it should be above criticism.
How can it hope to improve if there is no quality control?

With respect, just blindly accepting what Disney produces (in the fear of it disappearing if you don't), is surely unhealthy.
If Disney keeps producing sub-standard content, you'll lose the audience and it'll disappear anyway.
I'm afraid we may be too far down that road already.

Ultimately, the market will decide.
As Disney found out with the Galactic Starcruiser, if standards aren't maintained, you'll eventually fall on your arse.
You can fall on your arse when the standards are good too. ;)
 

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