Poon Troopers again and Everybody Loves Them

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walkie

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Altogether lets sing (to the Amy Winehouse Rehab tune)...

They wouldn't let me call him repro, cause he said 'boot, boot, leg'
Yes it's got bad now repro's back, newbie's are f**cked, f**cked, f**cked!
I ain't got the time and if on RS they thinks he's fine
He'll try to make you call him bootleg, but he's a re, re,pro

:lol: :lol:
 

tiefighterboy

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Yeah that's such a shitty argument. I've heard it from many on here too. You can basically apply that to anything. Hate that "why bother" apathetic attitude. It's the very thing that prevents most of the crappy things in our world from getting better... cos "what's the point... it probably won't work..."


Yes the "Defeatist" approach.
 

x-pack

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I am so tempted to rip off your prison ass ****ing analogy and post it on RS. But no, who knows i might actually want something on there one day 8) Must keep cool
 

walkie

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x-pack said:
I am so tempted to rip off your prison ass ****ing analogy and post it on RS. But no, who knows i might actually want something on there one day 8) Must keep cool

Deep breaths.....in......out.......in.....out......
 

phreatobite

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They're £25! You can find a minty real one for that and still have enough change to buy a modern Shadow Trooper.
 

walkie

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There cheaper than that, I paid less than $10 to have a set shipped direct from china !!
 

walkie

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flycasual said:
walkie said:
There cheaper than that, I paid less than $10 to have a set shipped direct from china !!
Why are you buying them?! :?

It was the previous ones (sorry for the mix up), I posted a link here but a while back but was asked to remove it. It was a Chinese mail order firm, I will try and see if I have the info stored.
 

PGowdy

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walkie said:
Altogether lets sing (to the Amy Winehouse Rehab tune)...

They wouldn't let me call him repro, cause he said 'boot, boot, leg'
Yes it's got bad now repro's back, newbie's are f**cked, f**cked, f**cked!
I ain't got the time and if on RS they thinks he's fine
He'll try to make you call him bootleg, but he's a re, re,pro

:lol: :lol:

The thing is, "bootleg" is a much dirtier and more appropriate word for these. I think people on RS are confusing a vintage bootleg with something made illegally today. There is a big difference.
The vintage "bootlegs" people collect were illegal at the time they were produced. They were produced by companies who didn't won the right to the Star Wars name, image etc so buying them back then, or having a forum (if one existed) where those were allowed to be sold would be both illegal and morally unjustifiable. But these are now not in production and are collected for their historical interest and appeal. Because of how long ago these were made and the nature in which they are bought, sold, traded and collected they are no longer illegal.

A reproduction is not necessarily something illegal, in fact many companies will make their own reproductions of their own formerly manufactured products. I own some reproduction G1 Transformers made by Hasbro and they are 99% identical to the originally released toys right down to the box and inserts. These are NOT illegal but they ARE reproductions.
In car collecting/customising/fixing etc reproduction parts are quite commonly used to complete a vintage look on a car where a part needed is no longer produced and and original can't be found. Form steering wheels to hubcaps and even the badge logos on the front or grill. Some collectors prefer original parts but it's seen as a preference and not a dirty practice in any way and certainly not illegal.

A bootleg, however, is an illegally produced product of a line or brand currently in production or a brand currently owned*. And this is where the law differs greatly. If you own an antique shop for example, you can sell reproduction furniture. Furniture that is produced to look like a vintage or even modern but more expensive piece. But if however you are selling knock-off Armani handbags in that very same store you could lose your licence, be hit with a massive fine and even be arrested and in danger of going to jail.
Personally i'd have a little more respect (than the non i currently have) for the fussy, aggressive, warden-like MODs on RS if they at least tried to make sure that federal law wasn't being breached on a daily basis on their forum. But they seem more concerned with staying on topic and making sure no one says "arse".


*The Star Wars name is currently owned by Disney and they alone have the right to produce or sanction the production of Star Wars toys and perchandise. The Star wars brand is NOT currently owned by Mark Poon or RS so neither have the right to produce, for sale, or allow the sale of any Star Wars product or toy.
 

olisuds

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Just to give my opinions on differences in terminology:

Bootlegs are unlicensed lines of toys that usually have considerable differences from the licensed version. They can frequently be considered vintage items themselves even if they are unlicensed because they are produced at around the same time if not shortly after the licensed versions. Their purpose is to illegally provide a line of toy without license so that it can be made and sold at lower cost with no payment of revenues to the license holder. There is usually no intention to exactly replicate a licensed copy or deceive someone. Examples include Turkish Uzay or polish figures.

Repro's are unlicensed copies of vintage toys made to look near identical to the real thing  so they can be passed off as an original or vintage item and potentially deceive someone. They are frequently used to replace a rare or valuable item. They cannot be considered vintage themselves as they are relatively more modern in comparison. Examples Include repro DT sabers, Reproduction Vlix, Rocket Fett or Poon Stormtrooper.
 

tiefighterboy

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No your wrong. I collect some bootlegs...so let me clarify this:

Bootlegs = Look like ****

Repros= Are shite

Star Wars Bubble Bath= Is awesome
 

shawn_k

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PGowdy said:
A reproduction is not necessarily something illegal, in fact many companies will make their own reproductions of their own formerly manufactured products. I own some reproduction G1 Transformers made by Hasbro and they are 99% identical to the originally released toys right down to the box and inserts. These are NOT illegal but they ARE reproductions.

Hey Pete, what you own/are talking about are indeed fakes. I tried to let you know about them here. This shows how dangerous some of these things can be. With the Hasbro/Takara official reissues they at least have an updated COO to China, where the originals will say Japan and in most cases the date stamps are updated too. Also, they all have new packaging where these fakes try to duplicate the original 80's packaging as close as possible. At one time some of the fakes slipped through AFA, so you can see why people would think they are the real deal.

The ones in the photo are examples of just some of these counterfeit G1s that have been flooding the market. I hope we never get to that point with vintage SW.
 

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PGowdy

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Yeah i didn't realise that. I thought they were official reproductions. So probably bad example but you get my point about the difference between a reproduction and a bootleg. Just that these now go in the bootleg category.
But you're saying Hasbro DID do their own 'official' reproductions of the vintage line?
Just goes to show how dangerous this kind of practice is.
 

JuniorChubb

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Thought I would chuck my tuppence worth into this.

IMO...

Bootleg - A product made at the time of sale of the original item and sold in shops to profit from its current fashionability. So for Vintage Star Wars this would be any non-official product that stole from the Star Wars universe, from Uzays to those Japanese Robot things with Stormtrooper heads.

Reproduction - A close as possible copy of an already or previously available product. Repro weapons and White Poon Troopers come to mind.

Custom - A 'new' product based on an already/previously available product either for sale or self. Blue Snag MOC's and Black Stormies for example.

All bootlegs are either reproductions or customs but not all customs and reproductions are bootlegs (hope I got that the right way round). As for the Poon troopers, the white one is a Reproduction the black one is a Custom. These two figures sum it up for me, look at the difference between them, no-one really gives a crap about the black stormie but the white one rocks the boat and causes waves.

I don't go for any of that 'bootlegs must look different or quirky' stuff, its more about time periods for me. Bootlegs are clear cut as far as I am concerned but there is some grey area in the customs vs repro definitions.

Sorry to bring customs into the argument. :oops:
 

shawn_k

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PGowdy said:
Yeah i didn't realise that. I thought they were official reproductions. So probably bad example but you get my point about the difference between a reproduction and a bootleg. Just that these now go in the bootleg category.
But you're saying Hasbro DID do their own 'official' reproductions of the vintage line?
Just goes to show how dangerous this kind of practice is.

No problem Pete. I just hope you didn't pay too much for them thinking they were official, but as you and I have said, they are pretty damn close to the real deal with the die cast parts, instructions, sticker sheets and everything. It really is a bit scary in that regard.

Here's some links of what the official reissues have looked like. I'll use Optimus as the example since he's been reissued the most throughout the years. Some of the packaging is very G1 inspired, but different enough that you can tell on first look that it isn't a 1984 Optimus Prime.

Takara actually started first right around 2000 with a few to test the market and some as convention exclusives.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/281090445214

In 2002, he was reissued by Takara again. This was one of my first reissues that I got on a preorder list for and is still my favorite. With this one, the toy was changed to have cartoon accurate blue eyes and blue windshield.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/310644188077

The next year, I believe, was when Hasbro also decided to bring some of them to their own markets. Here's their version of Prime. The smokestacks were shortened on him to conform to new toy laws in the U.S. that didn't exist in 1984. There were some sites though that you could pick up replacements from to fix that.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/171030887337

The next release was another Takara. They had moved all their reissue packaging into these book style boxes that opened up showing the toy inside. Hasbro did the same with their design after their first wave of reissues.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/390523483956

The Hasbro reissues slowed down and because of the high TRU prices, the line eventually died. Takara continued and then some time lapsed on those as well to the point that many collectors thought they were done. Tomy ended up purchasing Takara and around the time of the first Michael Bay movie, they relaunched the reissue line calling them Encores. Here's the Encore Optimus Prime

http://www.ebay.com/itm/250985906572

Hasbro hasn't stopped reissues completely at this point, but have made them a lot more limited being store/convention exclusives. This is the last Optimus reissue that they did a couple years ago now, that again has the shortened smoke stacks.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/281095483381

Hasbro/Takara have really gotten their use out of the Prime mold. There's also two Pepsi Prime reissues done by them both and some other exclusives, but these are the main ones. The only official reissue line still going strong is the Takara/Tomy Encore line. The latest, Fortress Maximus, was just released this month. I hope no one minds the long winded post, but I feel it is relevant in that another major collecting toy line has had to deal with both official reissues and counterfeits on a much bigger scale than we have with SW. Official reissues certainly have their affect on the market too, but for the most part things seem to bounce back once they go out of production. A real 1984 G1 Optimus Prime will alway be an amazing sight to me and still commands a good price MISB.
 
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