Forum member: SKYLINE......avoid

[mumbo]

If this transaction was completed with a trusted seller with a good reputation then I would happily give them the benefit of doubt and wait that bit longer. I recently received an item 3 days apart from another that was sent together by the same guy. But skyline has a terrible history as a seller and is notorious for being underhand and therefore in my opinion cannot be trusted. Other forums, ebay the evidence is there to suggest he can't be completely trusted.

He has the opportunity to prove the item has been posted but has chosen to not defend himself and the silence speaks volumes. Given his reputation you would think that disclosing the proof of postage would be his paramount concern, but no nothing and that would clearly make me dubious of the truth.

I agree with Pete, you pay up the refund first and then make the claim, but if the item hasn't been sent tracked there is very little chance royal mail would settle a claim.

This guy has stated he hadn't seen Jeff's message about refunding him the money until after he had sent the item. Perhaps it's possible for the mods to check when he actually opened the message to see if it was read after he claims to have sent it? Which I think is the 1st February, if it adds up it may make Jeff feel more assured about trusting the guy?

I can see where you are coming from edd, but this guy has a chequered past and that's why Jeff is not convinced, along with the majority of the posters on this thread.

I truly hope it comes through and it will be interesting to see the date on the postage stamp.

That's all folks

 

[plantman]

Im with Jeff on this, but i would personally have tried to keep calm a bit longer to coax him into a refund.

Waiting a month isnt good enough, especially with no proof of posting, now making him wait a further 15 days, then the extra on top of that for RM to process a claim which usually ends up with you ringing them anyway to chase it.

he has severed his ties on here for flogging his toys, nobody will deal with him now, unless you apologise and just refund.

its a shame

 

[jambobbyb]

I dont see how a buyer who asks for no insurance and no tracking on a parcel can demand a refund if it gets lost, Surely the responsiility is on the buyer to request and pay for adequate shipping? i always keep proof of postage on everything i send if i was the seller and a buyer asked for a refund for a lost parcel i would provide proof of postage and say jog on if they specifically asked for no insurance no tracking and i had followed there instructions to the letter. if they asked for insurance and i failed to send it insured or tracked that would be on me.

I have included a back and forth PM i had with a seler on here i bought a £12 R2D2 off him and i had dealt with the seller before 4 or 5 times i asked for cheaper shipping and in doing so accepted all responsibility should it go "walk about"

jambobbyb
Message subject: Re: £12 R2Folder: Sent messages
Hi Greg top man I will go for the cheaper shipping costs and take responsibility if he goes walk about, will paypal
Payment through directly.

 

[plantman]

did jeff ask for no insurance?

and up until now the seller hasnt proved he sent it, and lied about it being sent.

 

[jambobbyb]

Hi Plantman, I was under the impression Jeff hadnt asked for insured shipping? Jeff did you ask for this to be sent insured/recorded? As for the sellers actions its pretty obvious to me that its a scandalous way to do business i certainly wouldnt take a month to post out an item and i always keep proof of postage. my issue is the belief some buyers can ask for 50p worth of uninsured shipping then demand a refund if it gets lost as thats the buyer gambling with your money.

 

[PGowdy]

:?

I dont see how a buyer who asks for no insurance and no tracking on a parcel can demand a refund if it gets lost, Surely the responsiility is on the buyer to request and pay for adequate shipping? i always keep proof of postage on everything i send if i was the seller and a buyer asked for a refund for a lost parcel i would provide proof of postage and say jog on if they specifically asked for no insurance no tracking and i had followed there instructions to the letter. if they asked for insurance and i failed to send it insured or tracked that would be on me.

I said before that it is the seller's responsibility to pay for a lost package and i stand by that. However, in a a very rare and unique situation where the seller wanted to send something tracked and the buyer specifically asked him not to to save on postage then in that specific circumstance i would say it is entirely the buyers fault and he should receive no refund.
However, that's not what's happened here. Not sure where you've got that from. One thing that has come up several times in this thread is the seller saying "i have proof of postage" which means he sent it either tracked or insured. (what other way is there of having proof of postage? can't just be a plain old receipt cos i've got dozens of them lying around i could use to say are proof of postage).
Jeff has asked the seller several times to show him the proof of postage to put his mind at rest and the seller has not complied/ignored his request.

 

[edd_jedi]

One thing that has come up several times in this thread is the seller saying "i have proof of postage" which means he sent it either tracked or insured. (what other way is there of having proof of postage? can't just be a plain old receipt cos i've got dozens of them lying around i could use to say are proof of postage).

That's not true, you can get proof of postage for absolutely anything, even a first class stamp. You're right there's no way of proving it belonged to that particular item, but it IS proof of postage as far as RM are concerned.

Also another myth, an item does not have to be sent tracked/insured to make a claim. I believe anything sent by first/second class is covered up to £36 or so.

I've sent over 100 parcels of values ranging from £1 to £2000 all over the world in the last year, and have had to make one claim for something sent to Brazil. This is all from experience, not hearsay on a forum.

 

[PGowdy]

One thing that has come up several times in this thread is the seller saying "i have proof of postage" which means he sent it either tracked or insured. (what other way is there of having proof of postage? can't just be a plain old receipt cos i've got dozens of them lying around i could use to say are proof of postage).

That's not true, you can get proof of postage for absolutely anything, even a first class stamp. You're right there's no way of proving it belonged to that particular item, but it IS proof of postage as far as RM are concerned.

Also another myth, an item does not have to be sent tracked/insured to make a claim. I believe anything sent by first/second class is covered up to £36 or so.

Fair enough, i didn't realise that. The amount of times i have had stuff go missing i never claim cos i have receipts with about 20 items on so i don't see how i or the post-office can know "it's that one that went missing" when there no address or anything.
I certainly wouldn't be happy with a seller saying "see i got proof of postage and it's just some random receipt that could have been picked up off the floor. Way too easy to take the piss there. imo.
However, this does still show that either way the seller is covered here. So it's a moot point. It does kind of piss on the whole "it shouldn't be the sellers responsibility nonsense. Now it's been made clear the he/she is always covered for at least £36 and can make a claim where as you the buyer cannot further strengthens the view point that the buyer should be coughing up for lost packages.
I still don't believe the seller has actually coughed up this "proof" so i guess we'll never know whether it's tracked or just a post office receipt.

 

[jambobbyb]

Hi Pete you can request the details be added to the Proof of postage slip, You are an insanely honorourable seller to cover non insured items that go missing im not going to slag that off in any way, but i personally believe my responsibility ends at the post office counter if a seller has specifically asked me not to insure something and i have complied with there wishes. I will provide proof of postage with the recipients details on and thats the end of the story should it go missing. The responsibility is with the buyer to make sure the goods are adequately covered for loss as once payments made the goods belong to them not the seller.

 

[plantman]

i just dont even offer non-insured postage unless its a forum agreement, if you sell on ebay the buyer has all the rights and i believe its correct, if you pay for something its not yours until it crosses your doorstep, what happens in-between is the sellers concern.

 

[jambobbyb]

Sorry plantman the law disagrees with you transfer of goods is pretty straight on this one, as soon as you agree to purchase them they become yours.
3. Specific goods
Where there is an unconditional contract for the sale of specific goods in a deliverable state, the property in the goods passes to the buyer when the contract is made, and it is immaterial whether the time of payment of the price or the time of delivery of the goods, or both, is postponed.-Sec. 20.

 

[PGowdy]

Sorry plantman the law disagrees with you transfer of goods is pretty straight on this one, as soon as you agree to purchase them they become yours.

They may be "yours" once you've bought them (that is understood) but they are not in your possession and responsibility to get "your" item to you still lies with the seller until said item has arrived. I can think of no circumstance with any online outfit where this differs. Name me one company where you buy something online. It doesn't arrive and they say "tough titty" it's not ours once we've sent it.
Also we've already established, something i didn't know till Edd told me, that the seller is actually insured in all cases to at least £36 so it really starts to become a weak argument when that is considered. If i've bought something from you for £35 and you've sent it first class not tracked and it doesn't arrive are you still saying it's not your responsibility to cover the cost even tho you're insured by Royal Mail?? Seems strange to me.

 

[jambobbyb]

Pete its a totally different set of rules that apply to commercial sales if buying from a business you are covered by the distance sellers regulations. you are not covered by this when transacting with a private seller. at your edit as far as im aware im not sure where Edd got this from but i would be interested to know if it is right, but as far as im aware you can only claim for the actual cost of postage on an uninsured item.

 

[edd_jedi]

Agreed, there are plenty of grey areas here, and the simple fact is that if you wish to have security when buying things online, you need to do it the right way (and be prepared to pay the extra for it.) Buy through secure sites such as eBay, do not use Paypal gift, pay for insured shipping/tracking, and of course don't buy from people you don't trust. All pretty simple stuff really. Anything else is a gamble, and that's all some of us are trying to say here.

 

[PGowdy]

Agreed, there are plenty of grey areas here, and the simple fact is that if you wish to have security when buying things online, you need to do it the right way (and be prepared to pay the extra for it.) Buy through secure sites such as eBay, do not use Paypal gift, pay for insured shipping/tracking, and of course don't buy from people you don't trust. All pretty simple stuff really. Anything else is a gamble, and that's all some of us are trying to say here.

Despite what i've said above i completely agree with all this (the first time i've agreed with anything Edds had to say on this issue :lol: ). In the end there are lessons to be learnt with dealing with unknown members on forums. Tho we've said all that it's probably worth reiterating.
Having said that those who don't see it as the seller's responsibility to cover lost packages needn't avoid paying by goft as if the package doesn't arrive you wouldn't be filing a claim anyway right? :wink:

Despite the differing views on postage claims and responsibility it should be clear that that has never been the whole issue or argument here. There is a lot more going on here and while some think Jeff (and others) have had no reason at any point to be outraged i personally feel that the way this seller has handled, and continues to handle, his dealing is NOT the way things should be done. But i've been over all the whys and wherefores of why i feel that and i personally don't see the need to keep going on about it. A few of us are disagreeing on the matter and it doesn't look like it's going to change. It'll just lead to everyone falling out. (not me cos despite how it may seem i never actually care enough to get upset. :lol: )
So i'm moving on until there is something new to discuss on this matter. At the moment it appears the whole thing is in temporary (hopefully) limbo and we're all just chasing tails now.

 

[jambobbyb]

Pete little digging around on the post office lumped up this, 1st and second class non recorded are covered for £46 1st and second class letters have no compensation, so in answer your earlier question if you bought an item from me and asked for no insurance you should be liable for cost above this and you would get back as a refund £46 however i wasnt aware of this insurance until today.
http://www.royalmail.com/packet-despatch-low/uk-delivery/second-class-mail#faq-19350157-19350151

 

[plantman]

Sorry plantman the law disagrees with you transfer of goods is pretty straight on this one, as soon as you agree to purchase them they become yours.
3. Specific goods
Where there is an unconditional contract for the sale of specific goods in a deliverable state, the property in the goods passes to the buyer when the contract is made, and it is immaterial whether the time of payment of the price or the time of delivery of the goods, or both, is postponed.-Sec. 20.

if you read my post it does say on ebay, i am well versed in the sale of goods act and distance selling regulations, its not yours until it is in your hands, so the buyer still has full responsibility until you have signed that it has arrived in good condition, you can reject any sale at the point of delivery, that is why all sellers must use registered couriers ect.

this is a different matter between people using gift payment so no laws apply at all, this was never a sale according to paypal.

 

[jambobbyb]

Plantman goods not as described are a totally new game you have thrown into this argument, my point was to do with shipping and transfer of goods, If they arrive as described transfer of ownership of the goods took place when you agreed to purchase them this falls under the sale of goods act, However the DTI also disagrees with your stand DSR's do not apply when buying from auction or a private individual they are only applicable when you are buying from a VAT registered business. and in some cases at auction even this isnt always the case!
http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/problem/ive-got-a-problem-with-something-i-bought-on-ebay/

 

[plantman]

Plantman goods not as described are a totally new game you have thrown into this argument, my point was to do with shipping and transfer of goods, If they arrive as described transfer of ownership of the goods took place when you agreed to purchase them this falls under the sale of goods act, However the DTI also disagrees with your stand DSR's do not apply when buying from auction or a private individual they are only applicable when you are buying from a VAT registered business. and in some cases at auction even this isnt always the case!
http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/problem/ive-got-a-problem-with-something-i-bought-on-ebay/

this is going way off topic, my point is the seller is responsible for goods until the buyer has them, thats always been the case and its the same here

its not jeffs fault he hasnt recieved the items in 4 weeks, and even if they have got lost i see it as skylines issue to chase his compensation.

although there is absolutely no legal ground here as it was done as a gift ect

 

[jambobbyb]

this is going way off topic, my point is the seller is responsible for goods until the buyer has them, thats always been the case and its the same here

And the sale of goods act shows thats not the case, If the seller shipped the items as per the buyers instructions his liability ends with the courier anything after this should be claimed back off the carriers insurance to allow them to investigate missing parcels and issue a full or partial value return and any other refund on top of this is done through good will thats quite straight here. this opens up the door to people like Glen Tomlin who just deny anything turned up and its a dangerous precedent to set, If i sent a parcel with insurance for £400 and it didnt arrive with the seller its for royal mail to sort out the refund and that is then passed onto the buyer as RM's investigation will show if it was delivered or not.