Changing Collecting/Fan Demographic

[lejackal]

Think how much the star wars scene has changed since the first Celebration Europe in 2007. Back then there were just 6 films and it wasn't owned by Disney.

The bulk of cosplay still seemed to be OT and love for the PT was still pretty limited.

But since then, there's been at least 7 (Possibly 9? - I've lost track a bit) series, plus 6 more movies (including the animated clone wars) - all of which have introduced new characters and new actors and there's a lot more to come. Disney is very much forward thinking and looking for this to be a long term investment with the need to introduce new people to the franchise and to keep it fresh.


I found most of CE quite boring, but my SW focus is quite narrow. So I just took from the 4 days what I wanted and wasn't concerned about the rest. To be fair, that was the same in 2007, 13 and 16. Though the amount I'm interested in became less each show.

I just remind myself that Star Wars isn't mine, wasn't meant for just me - it's for everyone and anyone. Star Wars is much bigger than it was in 2007. That's no bad thing. There's a lot there - so you can take what you want and don't worry about the rest.

But in the meantime I'll just sit in the corner of the room shaking my fist, saying 'it's not as good as the old days'

"My" Star Wars vs "The" Star Wars is perhaps the biggest thing to accept

 

[sith-smith]

This is true. I think it's one reason why so many struggle with any new film series outside of the OT. They have in their mind how it should be and there's no way that something could be produced that would meet everything people have been imagining, often since 1983 and the end of the OT era!

Possibly the most interesting comment I've heard recently was at the end of the 1977 making of Star Wars documentary.

C3P0 speaking to R2 D2...

'where will it all end? Perhaps R2, it will never end!'

Who knew C3P0 could see into the future?

 

[maxf]

"My" Star Wars vs "The" Star Wars is perhaps the biggest thing to accept

That was my biggest takeaway from celebration - I lined up with thousands of people and the vast majority (I assume - from overheard conversations, costumes, t-shirts, age etc etc) were not there primarily for the OT, and even less so for vintage toys. We're a very small, niche part of Star Wars.

 

[Cazza]

That was my biggest takeaway from celebration - I lined up with thousands of people and the vast majority (I assume - from overheard conversations, costumes, t-shirts, age etc etc) were not there primarily for the OT, and even less so for vintage toys. We're a very small, niche part of Star Wars.

Yep, I felt the same, but still felt part of it all, as an old-timer.

 

[sith-smith]

Vintage toys do not generate any money for Disney, so we're never going to be a focus

I kind of see Star Wars and my collecting as two distinct things. I've fully embraced all the new stuff - don't like it all equally, but in general I love that there's loads of new content and enjoy watching it all - live action/cartoons/films/tv series. Consequently I still feel a part of things as I understand a lot of the references/characters etc. The Ashoka trailer is a good example - it relates to things from the OT, the continuation of the SW story in the early 90's (Thrawn Trilogy) and a lot of the new stuff Clone wars/rebels etc. So that makes me still feel a part of everything. That said the vast majority modern collecting has little interest to me, even modern versions of the OT.

Collecting vintage has little to do with Star Wars (as in the ever expanding universe of films and TV) While I appreciate that technically we wouldn't have had the toys as kids without there first being the films, I don't collect vintage because of my love of the films - if it was then I'd collect anything that relates to the OT, modern lines as well. I collect vintage because of the role it played in my life for a significant part of my childhood and the usual nostalgia etc. it gives me. So that certainly makes me feel like an old timer - but luckily at the moment there are still plenty of events that cater for us.

So ultimately I think I can get the best of both worlds. As for how long that continues...who knows!

 

[edd_jedi]

Yes I felt the same in the queue - looking at the thousands people around me I didn't feel there was much in common, wheras at an event like Farthest From you know everyone in the room has a lot of the same interests.

 

[Christian]

Star Wars in every aspect is a growing brand and attracting new followers with every episode streamed or online mention or media headline.

With regards to collecting there are IMHO many many different segments but from what i can tell and have experienced there are two main timelines: The original toys/merch (77-85) for the 40+ year olds and then there's TVC/Black Series & Lego for the under 40's. (Of course there's some cross over between the two but I am speaking in generalisations for the sake of this thread). The bottom line is that Disney/Hasbro doesn't make anything out of the former but is investing massively in the later group... and it's paying dividends. SWCE was swamped with 'younger' peeps desperate for new releases or spending a fortune to meet their on screen heroes - it was a crazy sight to behold. Numerous TV series coupled with another 3 slated movies (and no doubt future spin offs) will just keep the mega-cash cow shitting out billions in revenue.
For those of us who cherish our childhood toys and collect the true vintage line - no matter what anyone says nowadays about 'I collect for the love it', which may well be true in individual isolated cases, if you are dumping 100's if not 1000's on a collectible - it is an investment. May be not the wisest but at least it's a damn sight more enjoyable that looking at a market screen with red and green little arrows dictating which supermarket you'll shop at come 2035 onwards! Now for me the real question is whether or not a significant proportion of the younger generation will be drawn into true vintage collecting/investing as if that happens then sit tight, hold on to every piece you have because they will only increase in value due to simple economics. (Edd - I know I know mate you've been saying there'll be a downturn for the last 20 years but it ain't going to happen!)
In summary, there is nothing like the iconic pop culture standing of Star Wars and in selling LFL to Disney in 2012, Lucas did exactly what he wanted to achive and make 'Star Wars Forever'. Can you imagine a world without it?

 

[edd_jedi]

I agree with you for the short to medium term @Christian, it's not going anywhere for at least 20-30 years because as you say most vintage collectors are 40-50 now. But the question is when we all start to die off, will people continue to invest in it like they do old paintings, or will it die a death like Elvis or Michael Jackson memorabilia, or the old war toys i mentioned earlier. Nobody knows yet, as one of the younger vintage colletors myself it will be interesting to see!

 

[Starrider]

I think the value of vintage will never go down substantially. All that will happen when the first generation of Star Wars collectors begin to die off and increasing amounts of stuff starts to enter the market is that it will be quickly bought up by those like me if there was a significant drop (presuming I'm not one of the first wave to go) who have gaps to plug it but cant justify the sky high prices. This temporary slump in values would soon start to climb again once the surviving collectors had hoovered up all the bargains on offer. I would also argue the vintage line will always be of historical interest. Values on early Marvel and DC comics remain high even though the generation that collected them has long since shuffled off this mortal coil. The same with antiques, 100+ year old items still have an appeal to a small minority who have no connection to the period in question. I would say in general new collectors are always going to make a beeline for the newer stuff, but again there will be a smaller less shallow section who will still have interest in vintage items. As Star Wars approaches 50 years old, vintage sales may no longer rely purely on nostalgia, but on their historical significance and their connection to the very beginning of the whole Star Wars phenomenon.

 

[Wreck-It Ralph]

The biggest threat to Vintage Collecting is deterioration in the pieces. If you take a MOC then there are more things to go wrong with it than other collecting genre's like comics or trading cards, take vintage POTF cards many have been stored in dark dry conditions and still the bubbles have become yellow and brittle and in some cases have cracked, this can have a major impact on demand and thereby price. I don't see that same level of deterioration in comics or trading cards if stored in the right conditions. Other areas of collecting like cars are less affected as if a car is stored inappropriately it can be restored to its original state for a cost, not possible with MOC, if a bubble detaches and it is glued back down it is a reseal which is worth significantly less. The Demand for Vintage and thereby price will not just come down to desirability but more their robustness over time as most of us don't like losing money which is what happens when a bubble yellows, cracks or starts to lift.

 

[sith-smith]

In terms of the vintage line then that is a very valid point to make. We're concerned about who'll be collecting - but in reality what might be left to collect if more things like the MOC deteriorate. Ultimately the vintage line can only become rarer due to the effects of time and damage (there are so many stories of damaged items in the post or even accidents at home)

I think in the end it will still come down to the basic supply and demand equation. There may be fewer collectors as the older one who grew up with vintage stop/sell up. There may also be fewer items left.

Personally I can't see younger generations being as interested in the vintage. They have no sentimental/nostalgic attachment to it like we do. And there's a whole host of really cool stuff constantly being released that is more easily obtainable.

The market could also become flooded as older collectors give up/sell off etc.

It's really hard to predict. Who, back in the 90's, would have even slightly imagine that vintage SW toys would be selling for many thousands of pounds?

 

[palitoyjunky]

Wow! A hell of a lot covered and it's pretty much all been said.
I also felt in the minority and of less significance at Cel. I think a big reflection of this was the ridiculous and highly frustrating positioning of the Collector Track stage! Being drowned out by the bloody rock concert outside really pissed me off!! Yep I guess I do sound like an old fart
I do think a bit more respect and recognition should have been given to the OT being this year is indeed ROTJ's 40th birthday!!
Clearly times are changing but I do like how Disney are doing their upmost to keep things going to the next generation & beyond!
Regarding the vintage toys, I agree with much of what has been said. I think the two main factors that could possibly see a price drop at some point in the future would be 1, many of us guys deciding to cash in for various reasons therefore causing a somewhat flooding of the market and 2, the passing on of the likes of us to whom the vintage toys mean the most! I'm sure there will be peaks & troughs over time and I think likes of the 12 backs and early stuff will stay/rise to the summit and be respected like first issue/early golden age comics etc.
Regarding the deterioration of vintage, yes it's true we have heavily invested in fragile pieces & factors ie bubble seals etc. However I think some guys are perhaps worrying a little too much at this point in time. Where the POTF line is the outstanding line that has shown heavy bubble decay, there are many Kenner, Palitoy, Meccano, TolToy etc pieces that are in A1 pristine condition showing no signs of deterioration-including the Tri-logo, one of the weakest known packaging! Some of these pieces are still perfect after nearly 45 years…so why not another 45 years?!
I'd love to see the next generation & beyond fall in love with the vintage and keep it going strong for many years to come because it's simply the best of the best part of this gigantic ever growing world called Star Wars….the Original Trilogy