Will the UK leave the EU ?

[Grant_C]

Security for me can only be achieved through co-operation these days. The nation state has little to do with this these days as democracy's tend to not go to war with each other. If 2 nations do go to war, its normally against dictatorships. What is prevalent is civil war. Very doubtful in democratic and economically integrated Europe.

The big security issues for the 21 Century will be Climate Change, Terrorism, refuges and pollution. A national boarder means nothing to any of these security threats. The only way to deal with them is bilaterally. I am full integration because I can only see fully integrated nations working together at the same table as the only way to defend against these threats. If Europe is discussing major policy on the migration of people, or policies that affect our living environment, then we should be at the same table.

The demography shows that the older generation who voted leave, they will not live as long. They have traded a nostalgia for Last of the Summer Wine for the only rational way to combat the major trans national security threats.

Climate Change, Terrorism, Refuges and Pollution doesn't give a **** about Borders, and the Leave Campaign will be dead in ground when the younger generation will have to deal with it, unilaterally.

Like this quote- "The older generation voting to leave the EU is the same as your mate picking the film then leaving 20 minutes in."

 

[Grant_C]

I would also like to find out, when Britain was great.

The Leave campaign stated- Make Britain great again. But when was this?

Was it when we were Imperials, slaving the world? Was it in the 1950s? I don't think it was in the 1950's if you were a woman, working in coalmine, in an asbestos steel works, mentally ill, Black, Asian, disabled, gay etc

What about the massive depression of the 1970s?

I would suggest that Britain was great, accept for our American inspired, ridiculous incursion to Iraq and the American started financial crisis, I would suggest that Britain has never been better as it has over the last 25 years.

 

[edd_jedi]

Also you can not label everyone who voted OUT me included as selfish and right wing as we were entitled to our vote just as you were yours..

Well you've already labelled yourself that mate by saying "kick all the sponging migrants out" was your main reason for voting leave. Some people just don't seem to grasp that some things in life are either right or wrong - the fact 52% of this country are apparently racist doesn't make racism OK. If 90% of people voted leave because of immigration, that still wouldn't make it OK. Sure there are people that voted out for other reasons and I respect that, but I will never respect anybody narrow minded enough to consider immigration a problem. Would be interested to see your own personal family tree as you obviously think you have zero foreign ancestry.

At least all this is not as bad as Independence Day 2.

Yes agreed saw it last night, terrible. Love the first one so was a shame to see this slapstick mess.

 

[Lindo]

Edd I can see from reading this thread that your pretty pissed about leaving but making the uninformed statements you are about 52% of the UK as racist! (or there abouts) make you look like a bit of a boob tbh!
The reason I voted out was as follows, not immigration before you call me racist!

Why should other countries make our laws.
Why accept other countries forcing their decisions on you.
British fishing policies.
The amount of money we pay the EU, and before you say it no we don't get it all back!
Freedom to make stronger trade deals with other countries
Among others etc etc


Plus I want a ****ing blue passport not a red one !!!!!!

 

[edd_jedi]

As I said, I respect those that have valid reasons to vote out. I have seen very few of you so far based on this thread, the news, Facebook, and real life.

 

[Lindo]

just because you have seen very few with other reasons than immigration so far it does not mean that we are not out there, just please don't tar everyone with the same brush

 

[edd_jedi]

Perhaps I worded it badly, what I wrote was in direct response to somebody who voted out because of immigration saying we should respect their vote. No chance, sorry.

 

[Clarkspie&chips]

Did it occur to anyone that the numbers quoted earlier regarding the Google search was more likely to be remain voters? Younger people mostly voted remain but are also more likely to use the Internet. So it is possible a lot of remain voters were uninformed rather than the other way around.

Edd I can see from reading this thread that your pretty pissed about leaving but making the uninformed statements you are about 52% of the UK as racist! (or there abouts) make you look like a bit of a boob tbh!
The reason I voted out was as follows, not immigration before you call me racist!

Why should other countries make our laws.
Why accept other countries forcing their decisions on you.
British fishing policies.
The amount of money we pay the EU, and before you say it no we don't get it all back!
Freedom to make stronger trade deals with other countries
Among others etc etc


Plus I want a ****ing blue passport not a red one !!!!!!

All the same reasons for me Lindo. It's not always about money which seems to be the main concern for remain voters.

As a little consolation for you guys don't forget we'll get duty free back.

 

[Lindo]

It frustrates me also that the amount of people across TV programmes mentioning council estates for people that voted out! does that give them any less right to vote because they live on a council estate, and does it mean they are less intellectual so they must have used immigration as a reason to vote out!

 

[Lindo]

Perhaps I worded it badly, what I wrote was in direct response to somebody who voted out because of immigration saying we should respect their vote. No chance, sorry.

I totally agree mate, but whether we respect their vote or not there is nothing we can do about it now.

 

[edd_jedi]

All the same reasons for me Lindo. It's not always about money which seems to be the main concern for remain voters.

Er, three of Lindo's 5 reasons are about money:

British fishing policies.
The amount of money we pay the EU, and before you say it no we don't get it all back!
Freedom to make stronger trade deals with other countries

I have no money concerns, I'll be fine. I know that the outcome of my life is down to me, not immigrants or politicians. That's the only silver lining to all of this, these leave voters seeing no personal benefit five years down the line and realising they were wrong.

 

[Lindo]

he said not all about the money, 3 out of 5 isn't all about the money just over half about the money.

 

[SAVORY100]

Just to come back on the laws and trade comments:

The EU are only involved in the creation of 7% of the laws that are currently in effect in the UK. Those 7% only cover matters such as working rights, human rights and the environment. None of which your average worker would ever disagree with if they actually understood them and the subsequent fall out for changing them.

To be clear, other countries don't make our laws. Even the EU rulings that we adopt as laws are negotiated and agreed to by the UK government, not one has ever been forced upon us...

I'm also curious exactly how these folk believe we can make stronger trade deals when we are demoted now to being part of a smaller collective to create and manage trade. Now that we are a much smaller trading area (65m people) as apposed to what we were with the EU a trading area of 500m people. Our trade position has been diminished and in turn weakened. The person who has the biggest market dictates the rules this also of course means we will still need to concede as part of our trade agreements going forward to free movement of people for access to the single market.

How can we get stronger anyway, can anyone explain that? We trade with the EU and all its member states very freely and very favourably already, we trade with the rest of the world already. A great deal of our non-EU trade benefits from us being in the EU, especially as a hub for the english speaking world to access the EU as we leave, this service/ability leaves with us, we simply become more unappealing, less to offer, not a great place to start a negotiation really.

Finally, if we do break the United Kingdom itself too, as now expected, without Scotland, NI, quite possibly Wales and undoubtedly Cornish independence being mooted more strongly, the c65m population of the UK diminishes ever further, the trading power diminishes further.

 

[Lindo]

Do you honestly think that because were not in the EU they are not going to trade with us ?? get real. and personally I think even if Scotland does have another referendum then it will be the same result as the last time as leaving the uk and leaving the eu are totally different things. and maybe if they had all turned out to vote then it would have been remain!

 

[SAVORY100]

Do you honestly think that because were not in the EU they are not going to trade with us ?? get real. and personally I think even if Scotland does have another referendum then it will be the same result as the last time as leaving the uk and leaving the eu are totally different things.

No, I didn't say that?!?! :roll:

 

[Lindo]

I'm sure we will be able to manage our own trade deals

 

[SAVORY100]

I'm also sure we can manage our own trade deals, we will just be in a greatly diminished negotiating position, so we will likely get a poorer deal. We simply have a great deal less to offer on our side of the table now.

 

[monkey_roo]

As I stated a few pages back and is being widely reported by all news outlets the EU will happily trade with the UK if it agrees to remain in the single market, which frankly it must. The reason for that is simple, it means that the UK must agree to the freedom of movement laws and as the EU changes and evolves its trade laws the UK gets no say in them, it simply means we agree and trade and gain revenue and tax, or don't and get cut off, in short more power to the core EU country's and no British voice being a pain the arse to control and shape things, as we have been for the last 40 years.

The upshot of all that is we will spend billions of pounds to sever ties with the EU to end up with the same trade and immigration deal we have today but zero say in how they evolves over time, sound like a smart move to me.... NOT. And frankly that's the best outcome now, anything less and there is no reason for non-British companies to be based in the UK and they won't be. Several companies are already encating exit plans, investment ramp downs and relocations already. In the mean time the leave camp have no ****ing clue what they are going to do and seem as surprised as anyone they actually won and the remain camp are washing their hands of it in disbelief.

As others have said those who can and are motivated will up sticks and head to markets new leaving the a hole in the UK economy that can't be patched, certainly in the short term. Don't forget we don't have any trade deals with any country in the world right now, all are deals are through the EU and if anyone thinks that any major economic power needs our goods, think again, in fact the reverse is true.

So to recap, we eat her spend the next two year spending billions of pounds to get the same deal we have now minus the power to shape and guide our own economic future and deliver on none of the leave campaigns promises or we shut our doors, no one trades with us, the wealth of the UK walks off and we are plunged into the behest recession in our history...

 

[itfciain]

This page is a real eye-opener and will probably depress the hell out of you

https://www.facebook.com/sarah.leblanc.718/media_set?set=a.10101369198638985&type=3

 

[skywalker]

Also you can not label everyone who voted OUT me included as selfish and right wing as we were entitled to our vote just as you were yours..

Well you've already labelled yourself that mate by saying "kick all the sponging migrants out" was your main reason for voting leave. Some people just don't seem to grasp that some things in life are either right or wrong - the fact 52% of this country are apparently racist doesn't make racism OK. If 90% of people voted leave because of immigration, that still wouldn't make it OK. Sure there are people that voted out for other reasons and I respect that, but I will never respect anybody narrow minded enough to consider immigration a problem. Would be interested to see your own personal family tree as you obviously think you have zero foreign ancestry.

At least all this is not as bad as Independence Day 2.

Yes agreed saw it last night, terrible. Love the first one so was a shame to see this slapstick mess.

And I stand by what I said, but if it makes you feel any better I have already said I feel just the same about British people who sponge from society as I do migrants.

Call me racist, right wing a bigot what ever you want I don't really give a **** to be honest I used my right to vote just like you used yours.

I'm not interested if you do not like my views, they are my views / opinions and not yours.... I am not looking for you to respect my vote so vent your anger somewhere else and not at me..!