WATCH OUT THREAD – ANOTHER FAKE ITEM DISCOVERED

[Frunkstar]

WATCH OUT THREAD – ANOTHER FAKE ITEM DISCOVERED

I will start by saying I bought this over 6 months ago & whilst in the middle of a house move, sadly I gave it a quick glance at the time & packed it away for the move just being happy to have finally nailed down the final SW era MP for my run (foolish I know considering in retrospect), it was many many months later when settled in the new home & a display put in place it was unpacked & I looked closer & noticed some very worrying discrepancies compared to known confirmed authentic examples, so before panicking I first I reached out to some other MP collectors to ask opinions who confirmed they were not familiar with this "pink text version".

Item in question – star wars 2 pack red Snaggletooth / Greedo (Red Text) #1 No.38331-49-59412, this is the pack below -

Please note all information pertaining to the images in question can be found BELOW the image.

On close inspection of the item it became evident to me it had what I would regard as multiple red flags ( text colour / text bleed out / box material / box construction / baggies seals etc) all these differences will be outlined in detail below with corresponding images.

Due to my concerns I contacted the seller & informed them I would be sending it to UKG for inspection alongside a known authentic example that has been graded & is in fact a QC sign off, so we know 100% it is authentic.

Here is an image of the 2 side by side, my concerns about the packs authenticity were confirmed by UKG on delivery of the grade report below -

At this time I contacted the seller of the pack & shared UKG's report with them in hopes of a refund, sadly the seller said time had passed & actually told me "buyer beware" & they were not willing to entertain a refund under any circumstances regardless of the packs authenticity, now up until this point I had regarded the seller a fair & unbiased collector & a friend, at this point I'm not going to name the seller, but would like feedback from collectors on what would be expected from a seller under these circumstances, I will add this is a high ticket item coming in at 750GBP + fee's + postage + the report costs &&&

The baggies are also as stated fakes, the seals do not conform to other know examples - I own several & have cross checked them against the ones from the other graded pack that was submitted along side this one, luckily a fellow collector was very kind in sending me his to have opened & checked for the purpose of comparison.

 

[Frunkstar]

COMPARISONS & REASONING

Some side by sides shots showing the construction / box other material, note the smooth white finish to the suspect pack VS the off white of the authentic & gaining within the outer sleeve on the authentic which is not present on the suspect pack, all known authentic examples that have been looked at by multiple collectors all have the gaining/particulates within the outer.

Suspect to the left

suspect to the left

suspect to the left

suspect on the bottom

suspect at the bottom

suspect at the bottom

authentic inner

authentic VS suspect overlay, suspect pack is above / authentic underneath, note the miss cut on the suspect which is highly doubtful to have been cut/pressed at point of production for kenner IMO


same as above highlighting the miss cut

suspect at bottom, note the difference in colour of the cardboards.

It is worthy of note that a smell test was done, the suspect pack smells like cardboard & has no signs of mustiness / age you would associate with a 30++ year old piece of cardbaord, though this was just done out of interest & obviously is not something I can show online through images.

 

[Frunkstar]

CARDBOARD MAKEUP & BOX OUTER CLOSE UP's & WEIGHT COMPARISONS

The above 4 images try to show the difference in the actual cardboard type used in the construction of the 2 boxes, the thinner one is the known authentic, which shows some signs of wear from the years

this one highlights some tearing on the close up's showing this has likely been hand cut rather than factory pressed, it is a close up of the suspect pack, with again the genuine below, devoid of any such imperfections.

The above shows the authentic pack being weighed on some accurate scales which read to 0.01g

this shows the suspect again being weighed on the same scales with a considerable difference in weight, note that even though the authentic would appear to be made of a thinner construct of cardboard is weight is significantly more.

 

[Frunkstar]

FURTHER COMPARISONS

This is the gaining / particulates within the outer sleeve of the authentic pack which seem to be found on all authentic packs checked, these are not evident on the suspect packs which have a plain white finish.

Known authentic font colour shots - solid red / straight edges, no bleed out

suspect pack - pink / lots of bleed out not straight edged, also note the filled in A etc due to the amount of bleed out of the ink.


___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

suspect above / authentic below

lastly the 2 fonts shown in close proximity to show just how much they differ both in colour & print / bleed etc, these super close images also really do illustrate the difference in texture of the 2 box ousters, with the authentic looking quite rough / textured up close

I am not posting pictures of the baggies as it is near impossible to pick out the patterning within the heat seals on a photo, but under magnification is is clear the heat seals do not match known authentic examples.

 

[Cardbackkid]

It really is endless with all these fakes about ... such a shame , sorry to hear yet again that you have been stung .

 

[Richard_H]

FFS - and I thought things like that only happened to me

 

[Mini99]

So sorry to read that you have bought an expensive fake item, it really is becoming very worrying buying SW collectables!
Many thanks for posting another great piece of detective work so others can benefit from it and use it to determine the authenticity of future purchases , you should be commended.
What with Laurence's revelations this is two big scandals in as many weeks, shocking!
Do you know the original source of this item or is it a piece that has gone through many hands over the years?
Again many thanks for the time and effort that you have put in the expose this.

 

[Cazza]

This is so sad. Great work, Frank and thanks for sharing.

 

[slim]

Vow...the amount of fakes about these days is jaw dropping , am sad you have been stung again Frank :-(

 

[Michael Sith]

This is very sad to see mate, very worrying indeed for collectors and potential collectors of baggies and MP s.
Can't believe you've been stung again bud, and the caveat emptor being thrown at you. Hopefully the right and decent thing will happen, as others have said, thank you for highlighting for others and going to the lengths you have, looking out for fellow collectors.

 

[slim]

Guys , I have got the bug back " thanks laurence " and have been collecting 2 weeks now and I have to say I am sickened to death by all these fakes , time to name and shame these people !!

 

[R2lover]

Unfortunately for the seller, the financial responsibility should always be passed back down the line as far as possible. In reality though, this rarely happens. Sorry to hear this Frank.

 

[momike]

You thinking this pack is not right is one thing but it seems you did the correct thing here in seeking a second opinion, imo that most definitely is grounds for a no questions refund just on the baggies being rejected alone, the buyer beware comment is very worrying and not the gentlemen like attitude I have come to know and admire in my years collecting, sadly it's a more and more common occurance these days as is the repro/fake rubbish

 

[Snaketibe]

Thanks for highlighting this for the Forum, and of course, I am very sorry to hear that you bought a fake.

 

[subzero]

Whoever faked this it seems they've directly copied the text either from scanning an original or from a photo, because all the 'waviness' on the words on each box exactly matches.

Sorry to hear the news about this.

 

[slim]

Who is making this stuff ?

 

[spoons]

Sorry to read this Frank, I hope you aren't losing heart with baggie collecting there are some good guys out there. Your work in exposing all these fakes is really appreciated.

Who is making this stuff ?

There does seem to be a common source reading Laurence's recent post and Frank's past posts but I'm sure there are other sources out there too.

 

[Frunkstar]

Well I am glad I am not the only one to consider a refund is in order under the circumstances, I regarded this person as a decent sort & good fellow collecting buddy till this point, I even recently just valued & authenticated his entire baggie collection via email for him, many of which were confirmed to be of the fake type confirmed to have been coming from Reading (Jeff).

I will start by by saying every single one of these pink text packs I have seen all seemingly trace back to one place, all in the UK with not a single one being discovered stateside where they would have been issued, most have been sold behind closed doors in direct sales or via a stall at the Farthest From event, I actually have a picture on file saved from the baggie investigation showing the person who sold this to me & the person they bought it from (confirmed by the seller), the pic is also IMO very worrying as it shows not 1 but 2 of these rare packs on the sales table, I had not really noticed through the baggie investigation & only later when investigating these packs & looking over old images did I notice it after zooming in, I am not sure it would be fair to share the full image on the net, but here is a cropped section of it & a blow up of the packs in question -

& below a blow up as best I can of the 2 packs on the stall which from what I can make out are both these red text 2 packs -

The seller in question is a member of the forum (Marc Hockley) & the pack he later confirmed when questioned via facebook message is from Jeff Glanville.

I suppose it should not really have come as much of a shock considering the history, but if I get nothing back I so be it, that I have sort of accepted, what I will not & can not accept is further dilution of the hobby I love with these dam fake items, though obviously a refund would be the done thing IMO.

If Jeff has had so many of these pink text versions for sale, then where are they coming from?? with not a single confirmed one stateside, same as the recent woolworths 8 packs Laurence posted about - no known examples can be traced back & no examples of images can be found of that type dating back further than a few years, so I again ask -

WHERE ARE ALL THESE ITEMS COMING FROM?? Jeff you NEED to divulge where they are coming from as otherwise the evidence is pretty damming & mounting.

Marc - I urge you to do the right thing & make good on a full refund.

Everyone else - I urge you to be on your guard when buying items

 

[Bunglebubs]

Yet more Damning proof of the pond life Mr Glanville and the fraudulent activities he is involved with! Not only does this stuff rip off unsuspecting collectors of their hard earned money, but it causes all sorts of heartache for those concerned and potentially killing off the collectors market. Frank I hope that Mr Hockley does the decent thing and refund you your money and that he then in turn will take this back to Jeff!

 

[Planetdom]

This is very alarming as I would regard Frank as the person to go to about baggies as he has so much knowledge on them, for him to have the wool pulled over his eyes is very worrying, baggies was something I wanted to get into but after a recent Fake Baggie Alert and now this I'm not sure what to do, this has a damaging effect on the Star Wars Community, Frank has had the items checked out and found that his suspicions of them being Repro where right, In any business if an item has been sold and not fit for purpose then the seller should refund the money in good faith......

 

[Pomse2001]

Thanks frank for the warning and it is great to see you back on the forum :wink:

As always this fake stuff is very alarming

 

[peekaygee73]

As others have said I'm really sorry to see you've been stung with something again Frank. Huge respect on the investigative work and calling it out - I know baggiegate kicked off a shitstorm for you - so I really hope this gets sorted out in your favour.

Also, as others have said, it's great to see you post on here again.

 

[Ruby2511]

Ouch !!!!

Sorry to hear of this, hope justice is served to these twats, the experience like yours makes collectors very vary when parting with large sums of well earned cash as you just dont know if your getting legit vintage items or knock offs.

Thank you for sharing with the other members and again, sorry to hear of your bad experience.

Thankfully the good guys outweigh the bad guys, its always good to name and shame the pond life responsible for churning this crap out.

 

[Lindo]

To me it's more alarming that this stuff is getting sold at places like farthest from, you would not expect to buy fakes from a place like that, surely the sellers must be concerned about being rumbled and confronted at such events

 

[SublevelStudios]

To me it's more alarming that this stuff is getting sold at places like farthest from, you would not expect to buy fakes from a place like that, surely the sellers must be concerned about being rumbled and confronted at such events

Spot on.

Events like FF and Echo Live should really be considered safe havens when it comes to the sale of fakes.

 

[Stubbs]

To me it's more alarming that this stuff is getting sold at places like farthest from, you would not expect to buy fakes from a place like that, surely the sellers must be concerned about being rumbled and confronted at such events

I would have thought the same after this thing broke with the baggie gate around January 2017 to my knowledge and the evidence has been mounting since then with more people coming forward with these fakes being extremely disappointed to find them to be repro knock ups.

 

[Mini99]

To me it's more alarming that this stuff is getting sold at places like farthest from, you would not expect to buy fakes from a place like that, surely the sellers must be concerned about being rumbled and confronted at such events

Spot on.

Events like FF and Echo Live should really be considered safe havens when it comes to the sale of fakes.

Totally agree, worrying indeed if this is happening at FF to very experienced collectors.

 

[laurencedyer]

To me it's more alarming that this stuff is getting sold at places like farthest from, you would not expect to buy fakes from a place like that, surely the sellers must be concerned about being rumbled and confronted at such events

Spot on.

Events like FF and Echo Live should really be considered safe havens when it comes to the sale of fakes.

Totally agree, worrying indeed if this is happening at FF to very experienced collectors.

Is there a reason these Item's along with the Woolies pack's were allowed to be sold at FF even after the baggie outing post?

It's as if he was encouraged to do it. Wierd in my opinion. Just my opinion but probably accepted by the rest of the community

Edd, have you not argued this point many time's with the host of the event?

 

[momike]

I remember having a group chat with Dave tree about Jeff selling at ff over some comments I made on Facebook last year, his argument was that Jeff should be able to sell at the event so he could make money that he could refund to people he had sold fakes to (he tells people he has payed everyone back but he hasn't) and that was best plan of action as he/we didn't want him going the way of toytoni or bill Rodgers and going underground and not refunding money's owed. I remember saying that was a fair point but I didn't think under the circumstances that it was much to ask that Jeff not be able to sell bagged items at the event and was very disappointed that Dave tree didn't even take it on board during the chat we had, if memory serves me right he didn't even reply to that suggestion or even acknowledge it which I thought was really poor form on his part tbh......I'm pretty sure I saw a picture of one of those woolies packs that are under the spotlight at the minute on jeffs stall as well as mailers and an EB kit

 

[Frunkstar]

Yes I also voiced my concerns to Dave back at the time of the outing & made it clear I did not think Jeff should be welcomed at FF or other events let alone be allowed to trade at them, as mentioned above he was still allowed but we were assured he would not be allowed to sell baggies or baggie related items, yet I have seen he has still been selling woolies packs mailers & multi packs at the event which are obviously all baggie related which to me is shocking, it is not just still going on but that seemingly for the most part also generally being accepted :?

I spoke with the organizers of Echo Base live directly & was assured Jeff would not be allowed to trade at their even EVER, so at least there's a win there.

I was also told by Marc Hockley that Jeff had informed him everyone had been refunded on the individual fake baggies, but I know for a FACT that this is not the case, I tried at the time to make Marc aware of that but he was not really listening & convinced Jeff was being 100% truthful, that really should have made me think twice, but as with most I took Marc to be a decent guy & maybe just to nice for his own good & a little blinded by the Jeff is "a nice guy" argument, what with Marc doing a lot of good within other areas of the hobby.

TBH I have been pretty shocked & disgusted by his refusal to refund & make good on this item, it's just not the done thing, if I sell anything it comes with a no questions asked refund/replace policy if the buyer is not happy if there is an issue with the item, let alone if the item is found to be fake or not gradable.

I bought some baggies from a seller stateside back in 2014 & last year (during the baggie investigation) I discovered multiple ones were indeed fake, very convincing fakes till I looked them over in very close detail & made the discovery, that had been a 3 year ++ period & the guy refunded in full without question soon as I let them know about the issue, no 2 week cut off time to be entitles to a refund like Jeff told everyone on here, I know there are still many out there who are owed a refund from Jeff, be that a long term ongoing supposed payment plan on huge chunks or those who did not know till well after the "refund cut off date"