Vintage investment collectors...30 years from now?

[Wreck-It Ralph]

The names from this thread have mostly moved on - could sum that up with a Kenobi quote I guess

As new blood to the hobby (relatively speaking) I'd agree broadly with the earlier comments about true rarities, foreign (non Kenner), loose figures and top condition items - however, even solid investment collectibles, such as CGC comics, have not escaped the current downtown.

@ScruffyLookingNH would be able to go into more detail, but even stuff like the first appearance of Wolverine has dropped in recent months.
Fair enough that's not a RFF scale investment but it is a mid to high level POTF or Trilogo graded equivalent

if I'd have bought in 2009 I'd still be doing great. If i had bought in 2013-19 I'd still be very okay. If I bought during Covid times I'd be worried.

I think it's difficult to compare VSW to other collectibles as it's easy to find out what a Hulk 181 (2nd Appearance of Wolverine) is worth you just have to subscribe to GPA or Go Collect, you can even find out how many exist in different grades. If I wanted to know how many 300 SL Gullwings or 275 GTB's were produced or what the last one sold for that's easy. If I wanted to find out how many 41 back Greedo's exist how would I do that? If I wanted to know what the rarest 45C's were I could ask Edd but would he tell me, probably not! Rare Palitoy's are not documented which will probably reduce the value in the future and their collectability, but Palitoy collecting is all about secrecy which makes it different to most other collecting hobbies!

 

[edd_jedi]

I don't think secrecy is the right word, but it's certainly got a lot to do with who you know. And I assure you I'm not part of the Palitoy inner circle, I get no first dibs on anything

Regarding sharing research, I've shared plenty of stuff publicly over the years, but I've also kept interests to myself before because inevitetably when you showcase an unusual and obscure run you've been working on for ages, somebody copies you and then ends up getting those final pieces you needed. I made a ranty post on that very subject a few years ago and got ridiculed on a podcast for it, so I just accept that's part of collecting now, yesterday's copycat is today's expert.

 

[Wreck-It Ralph]

I don't think secrecy is the right word, but it's certainly got a lot to do with who you know. And I assure you I'm not part of the Palitoy inner circle, I get no first dibs on anything

Regarding sharing research, I've shared plenty of stuff publicly over the years, but I've also kept interests to myself before because inevitetably when you showcase an unusual and obscure run you've been working on for ages, somebody copies you and then ends up getting those final pieces you needed. I made a ranty post on that very subject a few years ago and got ridiculed on a podcast for it, so I just accept that's part of collecting now, yesterday's copycat is today's expert.

When I first joined the forum - before all the irritating adds - I put up a post asking about 41 back rarity, I got lots of responses to the post but none that answered the question as Secrecy is at the heart of Palitoy collecting. I understand why as if you highlight something is extremely rare more people may be inclined to bid on it if it comes up for sale publicly. If Edd or Gary was to publish a list of all their 45C's then anything that is missing is likely to be very rare and for some people more desirable making the completion of the set more challenging. I think Palitoy VSW will ultimately drop in price because of the lack of transparency in sales of rare items and knowledge share. I might be completely wrong, it will be interesting to see what the Palitoy VCJ sells for on the 27th.

 

[lejackal]

. I made a ranty post on that very subject a few years ago and got ridiculed on a podcast for it, so I just accept that's part of collecting now, yesterday's copycat is today's expert.

This isn't great to read - especially when you have given so much over the years.

100% agree on the copycat/expert bit though - I know who I would ask about a number of SW niches, and it almost certainly isn't the people I see tagged on Facebook when questions arise about those niche items - the tags tens to be for the persons chucking stacks of money at things, not necessarily the people that have the actual knowledge.

 

[Wreck-It Ralph]

This isn't great to read - especially when you have given so much over the years.

100% agree on the copycat/expert bit though - I know who I would ask about a number of SW niches, and it almost certainly isn't the people I see tagged on Facebook when questions arise about those niche items - the tags tens to be for the persons chucking stacks of money at things, not necessarily the people that have the actual knowledge.

We all have different experiences in this hobby, I have met some great, very knowledgable people and some difficult ones, the most knowledgable ones all came from this forum which I believe Edd started so hats off to him! But it's important to remember we all have our own collecting aspirations and when knowledge sharing gets in the way of that we fall silent!

 

[edd_jedi]

If Edd or Gary was to publish a list of all their 45C's then anything that is missing is likely to be very rare and for some people more desirable making the completion of the set more challenging.

My list is public right here

https://www.starwarsforum.co.uk/threads/wtb-palitoy-jedi-mocs-with-trilogo-bubbles.38222/

 

[edd_jedi]

This isn't great to read - especially when you have given so much over the years.

To be fair they had a point, doing the leg work doesn't give you a right to the items when they come up, but it is still annoying when it happens

 

[Wreck-It Ralph]

Palitoy VCJ sold for 15K today at Excalibur which is low as all previous ones have sold for over 20 I believe. This is an iconic piece which 15 years ago was thought not to exist, now they predict there to be between 10-15 so not that rare in Palitoy terms but still very desirable. If Grail items like this are on the way down then I guess VSW in general is not looking good and prices will probably drop.

 

[Mini99]

Palitoy VCJ sold for 15K today at Excalibur which is low as all previous ones have sold for over 20 I believe. This is an iconic piece which 15 years ago was thought not to exist, now they predict there to be between 10-15 so not that rare in Palitoy terms but still very desirable. If Grail items like this are on the way down then I guess VSW in general is not looking good and prices will probably drop.

They already are.

 

[welshwookie]

Palitoy VCJ sold for 15K today at Excalibur which is low as all previous ones have sold for over 20 I believe. This is an iconic piece which 15 years ago was thought not to exist, now they predict there to be between 10-15 so not that rare in Palitoy terms but still very desirable. If Grail items like this are on the way down then I guess VSW in general is not looking good and prices will probably drop.

Wasn't the condition on this one not near as good as the 1st one the rep found, in the attic ? Also I would say most things have dropped in value at the moment, due to the economic climate. Loans are not as cheap or a remortgage, and if you have the cash, perhaps you are feeling cautious about spending some of it, plus if you could be taxed if you move it on.

 

[theforceuk]

If you look at the vintage market it peaked in June/July 2022. Generally the mint graded clear blister etc, etc stuff is holding firm and becoming harder to find. Which means it's only going one way. Just my observations, generally think VSW still has plenty of life left. That said if I had the money I wouldn't drop £20k on a VCJ MOC and expect it to be worth more in 20 years. One thing I've noticed with my collection is it's degrading faster as the years pass.

 

[monkey_roo]

This may be the highend of things, but I think the right Vintage stuff will always command a very high price: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-68118326

 

[Wreck-It Ralph]

Wasn't the condition on this one not near as good as the 1st one the rep found, in the attic ? Also I would say most things have dropped in value at the moment, due to the economic climate. Loans are not as cheap or a remortgage, and if you have the cash, perhaps you are feeling cautious about spending some of it, plus if you could be taxed if you move it on.

The condition of the two items were similar if you were to grade them probably a 70 or 75 grade, so pointless grading them as any grades below 80 detract from the value. The VCJ is very desirable but they are nowhere near as rare as they used to be, one was sold with Vectis in 2017, two with Aston's in 2020 and two with Excalibur in 2023 & 2024 so far. The Excalibur Auction was only 6 months apart with a 6K reduction on the Hammer Price so quite a big hit, I think the seller also has to pay a 20% commission.

 

[x-pack]

Lot to read through there... i always look at this in the way the vintage car market is going. Pre-war stuff is now dieing on it's arse. Young people now don't want rickety old jallopies with a hand crank and wooden chassis. They have no link to it, and their parents probably only have a distant link to it. What possible desire would young people now have to pour money into that particular hobby? They want Sierra Cosworths and XR2s. Stuff that's not too far in the past. I reckon Star Wars will go exactly that way.

 

[x-pack]

Hell fire ...this was first posted in 2009! I don't even think we had internet on our phones then. Crazy!

 

[Cazza]

Good to have you posting again, mate!

 

[Cazza]

I don't think the bottom will fall out of the SW market any time soon, as it's still huge in pop culture and spans several generations. I'm sure the vintage stuff will drop a reasonable amount at some stage, but won't plummet.

 

[momike]

I genuinely can't stand how people view vsw as an investment and refer to it as the market…..you talk to collectors of other lines of toys and they just collect for the love of it, vsw collectors are the only people (not all) I meet who start the conversation I payed this much for it and it's now worth ex amount, always found it really vulgar tbh

Your spot on joe, once the original generation of collectors dies off so will any desirability for them as beauty as they say is in the eye of the beholder, where we view them as works of art the reality of it is they were mass produced and for the most part none of this stuff is rare at all and the reality of it is one day it will be worthless

My dad has old motorcycles, that at one point we're very desirable but now that the generation are to old or have passed away there is no desire for them

If your in it as an investment my advise is sell sell sell……me I'm off to enjoy my stuff for the love of it

 

[Mosh]

Same. I collect because I like the TOYS. I like opening up the packaging, hold the figures in my hands, pose them, etc. I get the financial motivation of some people behind collecting, but I frown upon that mentality. It helps drive stupidly inflated prices for... plastic. Once I die, I know my collection will be dispersed. My wife is for sure not going to carefully look for best bidders; most probably there will be no need for her. And that will be OK. Money is useful in life, but thinking mostly about the money angle is a motivation vastly different from mine when collecting.

 

[Jabbas Stinky Codpiece]

Anyone want to discuss people who collect as an investment?

Just had a little notion, I am I guess younger than most at 24 and missed all the films, I still got into collecting and know many collectors at a similar age group but I don't know as many younger collectors, and I certainly don't know as many collectors my age as there are older.
(hope you are still with me)

So in terms of groups-

Older original fans - Large number
Younger fans (second wave ) - Medium number
Even younger fans (final? wave) - Low

So lets say our older fans are pushing 40 now and in ten years or so decide to sell, they sell to my age group and in a further twenty years we decide to sell at which point there will be even less people wanting to buy these toys, so in that sense is it REALLY that good an investment as people think?

Given that many of you guys have families, you will in turn hand your collections to your kids, some may enjoy them and enjoy them for what they are and some may want to cash in on them (hope not!)

If they have no-one to sell them to, or the market is so flooded with overpriced collectibles that they have to flog them at very low prices (which I think will be the case) are collectors buy now to invest doing so misguidedly?

For me , the investment notion is long dead.

Edit- bad title thread as its always going to be relevant!

I don't buy as an investment I will sell doubles or trade them in for different figures/ merchandise but for me it's fun finding stuff where you don't expect it or hunting down stuff while I'm on holiday or somewhere new I love charity shop buys and think Game is great for deals on new stuff but I've told the kids that they can sell it when The Force takes me back….funeral fund as long as I'm wearing a Celtic shirt and have a light sabre with me I'll be happy