Dark Sith Lord
Grand Master
Just had a brainwave about this :?
Is there a reason as why their are no proofs for Trilogos?
Is there a reason as why their are no proofs for Trilogos?
Trilogo Proofs??
- Thread starter Dark Sith Lord
- Start date
Well.... I think Joe is the right one for this one ...... but.....
All the known proofs are from the Kenner "dead files " or from Kenner employees who took them home at some time .
When Kenner was overtaken by Hasbro . And they moved the rest of what was left of Kenner in Cincinnati to the other coast . Some boss at Hasbro did not want to move what most have been a wast amount of 2d pre-production material ( Paper , proofs , boxed flats etc. )
So they threw it all out . Some Kenner employees saved some stuff like Tom N
http://members.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewUserPage&userid=nextoy
Some Star Wars collectors was quick to jump in the dumpsters at night when the workers left for the night . They saved alot of the proofs that are now around . You can read more about it here ..... and dream......
http://chewseum.com/kenner_tour/index.html
A little more Kenner info here :
http://www.kennercollector.com/
More general proof info here :
http://swproofcards.powerofthetoys.com/Proof_Cards.html
This is the back story about where the Kenner proofs came from .
All Trilogo cards where made and used outside the USA , On the Palitoy plant in the UK etc.
As Kenner was the one that held the licence to the SW toys .
It is more than likely that some Trilogo cards / proofs etc. where sent back to Kenner for aproval . And probably also where kept in the Kenner Morgue .
But ( This is my personal theory about what could have happened )
If the Trilogo / forigen stuff where kepth in one part of the storege room and the workers started trowing that stuff away in the morning and all though the day . Then all this could just have been sent off to the landfill during the day .
i have filed very big dumpster to the rim in a couple of hours myself . So a crew of workers could easy fill MANY dumpsters in one day and trucks could have just kept empty them all day long .
So only what was left at night when the crew breaked for the night . Was what the SW collectors could save . As they worked at night and it was a bit shady what they did . They probably had to make some hard decisions about what to take and leave . And any one that have tryed to dig stuff out of a filed dumpster , knows how hard it is to get stuff out if it is entangled and just dumped on top of each other .
So even if there was some trilogo proofs in one dumpster , they might not have been able to get them .
Then there are the part about that we dont really know much about where all the trilogos where made . Just that they where made in Hong Kong etc. And all that was left when they stopped producing the toys were just trashed .
But Joe O is the man to tell you more about all that .
Hope my limited knowledge about all this helps you out mate
All the known proofs are from the Kenner "dead files " or from Kenner employees who took them home at some time .
When Kenner was overtaken by Hasbro . And they moved the rest of what was left of Kenner in Cincinnati to the other coast . Some boss at Hasbro did not want to move what most have been a wast amount of 2d pre-production material ( Paper , proofs , boxed flats etc. )
So they threw it all out . Some Kenner employees saved some stuff like Tom N
http://members.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewUserPage&userid=nextoy
Some Star Wars collectors was quick to jump in the dumpsters at night when the workers left for the night . They saved alot of the proofs that are now around . You can read more about it here ..... and dream......
http://chewseum.com/kenner_tour/index.html
A little more Kenner info here :
http://www.kennercollector.com/
More general proof info here :
http://swproofcards.powerofthetoys.com/Proof_Cards.html
This is the back story about where the Kenner proofs came from .
All Trilogo cards where made and used outside the USA , On the Palitoy plant in the UK etc.
As Kenner was the one that held the licence to the SW toys .
It is more than likely that some Trilogo cards / proofs etc. where sent back to Kenner for aproval . And probably also where kept in the Kenner Morgue .
But ( This is my personal theory about what could have happened )
If the Trilogo / forigen stuff where kepth in one part of the storege room and the workers started trowing that stuff away in the morning and all though the day . Then all this could just have been sent off to the landfill during the day .
i have filed very big dumpster to the rim in a couple of hours myself . So a crew of workers could easy fill MANY dumpsters in one day and trucks could have just kept empty them all day long .
So only what was left at night when the crew breaked for the night . Was what the SW collectors could save . As they worked at night and it was a bit shady what they did . They probably had to make some hard decisions about what to take and leave . And any one that have tryed to dig stuff out of a filed dumpster , knows how hard it is to get stuff out if it is entangled and just dumped on top of each other .
So even if there was some trilogo proofs in one dumpster , they might not have been able to get them .
Then there are the part about that we dont really know much about where all the trilogos where made . Just that they where made in Hong Kong etc. And all that was left when they stopped producing the toys were just trashed .
But Joe O is the man to tell you more about all that .
Hope my limited knowledge about all this helps you out mate
aussiejames
Sith Lord
I thought I saw a Squidhead ROTJ Palitoy proof? ( no Kenner logo ) Could have been dreaming :?
edit: thanks Chris :
from http://forum.rebelscum.com/t1085861/
edit: thanks Chris :
from http://forum.rebelscum.com/t1085861/
Caswellbot
Sith Lord
- Joined
- Jan 1, 2010
- Messages
- 3,072
I believe Ronny a had one in his most recent limelight aj. Either that or I am mistaken.
Meant to reply to this earlier Liam but got pretty snowed under today!
Here comes a big boring reply ..
I think firstly you need to look at what most collections call a proof and what purpose it actually serves. The common proofs we usually see for sale on the market are super close to production cardbacks and were not actually for proofing at all, that was all done with the cromalin stage. It goes without saying that as a proof gets closer to a production cardback it moves further away from being "pre" production and the common proofs are to be considered more of a pre final print run, the printers would be fired up and hundreds of cards created to test the machinery and everything else before cards were put into production, many of these were sent back to Kenner from the printers to keep on file, use for various tests they did in house etc - which is why mock ups were created using earlier cards, they simply used whatever they had around to create the look of the new stuff.
Now..outside of Kenner there were most definitely pre production stages involving 2D stuff happening, after all many companies added their own spin on existing Kenner printed material like the line art on the back of Ledy card (not to mention the logo/alt artwork) or something simple like the Palitoy logo on Palitoy cards -it was all done *somewhere* and as with anything there had to be tests/early print runs done to finalise things for production.
There was some similar discussion on RS about this in recent years, one instance was the Ewok Warrior cards - where the nameplates of Lumat and Paploo on the Spanish GMJ releases were added to the Wicket card because (perhaps) the artwork for Lumat and Paploo was unavailable at the time of their release. This only happened in Spain and JC (Knowledgeable Spanish collector) confirmed that this was a change likely done in Spain by the printing company that GMJ were working with.
The other example that confirmed that "proofs" existed outside of Kenner was an ROTJ Greedo 77 back proof, the proof had a made in Spain printed COO (where Kenner had a few figures made) and it was a signed sample, Mattias explained on RS that it was likely that Kenner had sample cards (insert the word "proof" here) sent to them from the various factories in order to maintain QC samples for their own records, this is a quote of his from RS:
You are correct AJ there are a few ROTJ Palitoy "proofs" out there, I think the general consensus is that they are in fact unused backing cards left over from factory production because they are identical (Again Mattias confirmed they were identical by comparing an AFA graded Palitoy "proof" with a Palitoy carded figure of the same character)
Anyways, getting back to the question - Trilogo cards most definitely were designed and "proofed" at some point because the design was completely new but the reason there aren't any Trilogo "proof cards" out there IMO is simply because much like the Palitoy proofs/unused backing cards - there were masses of cards printed up but they were probably identical to the finished card and any early Trilogo print runs that did differ to the final product were probably just discarded like Soren assumed.
The design work that went into these cards was not done at Kenner and I really doubt Kenner received any Trilogo "proofs" from Europe as they were of no interest to them as the cards were being marketed for Europe only, In fact the only reason they would have had the Made in Spain card or the Made in Mexico card sent to them that I mentioned earlier was because those figures were actually being made for the US market.
On the subject of European design, proofing and general tinkering -- David Tree could definitely fill in some blanks here because he has a huge brain...oh and some Palitoy pre-Trilogo mock up examples (albeit on eye bleedingly small slides/transparencies!) but yeah, slim pickings on the pre production stuff from Europe, it happened somewhere but they unfortunately just didn't archive it or use it in any capacity like Kenner and it was just deemed to be of no use and scrapped
Here comes a big boring reply
..I think firstly you need to look at what most collections call a proof and what purpose it actually serves. The common proofs we usually see for sale on the market are super close to production cardbacks and were not actually for proofing at all, that was all done with the cromalin stage. It goes without saying that as a proof gets closer to a production cardback it moves further away from being "pre" production and the common proofs are to be considered more of a pre final print run, the printers would be fired up and hundreds of cards created to test the machinery and everything else before cards were put into production, many of these were sent back to Kenner from the printers to keep on file, use for various tests they did in house etc - which is why mock ups were created using earlier cards, they simply used whatever they had around to create the look of the new stuff.
Now..outside of Kenner there were most definitely pre production stages involving 2D stuff happening, after all many companies added their own spin on existing Kenner printed material like the line art on the back of Ledy card (not to mention the logo/alt artwork) or something simple like the Palitoy logo on Palitoy cards -it was all done *somewhere* and as with anything there had to be tests/early print runs done to finalise things for production.
There was some similar discussion on RS about this in recent years, one instance was the Ewok Warrior cards - where the nameplates of Lumat and Paploo on the Spanish GMJ releases were added to the Wicket card because (perhaps) the artwork for Lumat and Paploo was unavailable at the time of their release. This only happened in Spain and JC (Knowledgeable Spanish collector) confirmed that this was a change likely done in Spain by the printing company that GMJ were working with.
The other example that confirmed that "proofs" existed outside of Kenner was an ROTJ Greedo 77 back proof, the proof had a made in Spain printed COO (where Kenner had a few figures made) and it was a signed sample, Mattias explained on RS that it was likely that Kenner had sample cards (insert the word "proof" here) sent to them from the various factories in order to maintain QC samples for their own records, this is a quote of his from RS:
aussiejames said:
You are correct AJ there are a few ROTJ Palitoy "proofs" out there, I think the general consensus is that they are in fact unused backing cards left over from factory production because they are identical (Again Mattias confirmed they were identical by comparing an AFA graded Palitoy "proof" with a Palitoy carded figure of the same character)
Anyways, getting back to the question - Trilogo cards most definitely were designed and "proofed" at some point because the design was completely new but the reason there aren't any Trilogo "proof cards" out there IMO is simply because much like the Palitoy proofs/unused backing cards - there were masses of cards printed up but they were probably identical to the finished card and any early Trilogo print runs that did differ to the final product were probably just discarded like Soren assumed.
The design work that went into these cards was not done at Kenner and I really doubt Kenner received any Trilogo "proofs" from Europe as they were of no interest to them as the cards were being marketed for Europe only, In fact the only reason they would have had the Made in Spain card or the Made in Mexico card sent to them that I mentioned earlier was because those figures were actually being made for the US market.
On the subject of European design, proofing and general tinkering -- David Tree could definitely fill in some blanks here because he has a huge brain...oh and some Palitoy pre-Trilogo mock up examples (albeit on eye bleedingly small slides/transparencies!) but yeah, slim pickings on the pre production stuff from Europe, it happened somewhere but they unfortunately just didn't archive it or use it in any capacity like Kenner and it was just deemed to be of no use and scrapped
Dark Sith Lord
Grand Master
Thanks for the replies Guys! Very Interesting reading thanks
Such a shame that they didnt suriive
Such a shame that they didnt suriive
_Lee_
Sith Lord
- Joined
- May 7, 2008
- Messages
- 2,447
This his something that has always intrigued me,but i think we will never know the truth.I beleive some stuff did exist,but is long gone.
The ROTJ Palitoy backers were found a long,long time ago and were being traded/sold for as little as 50p to £1 in the late 80's-90's.I have one in my long gone Lando Skiff production run shown on the SWCA:
http://theswca.com/index.php?action=disp_item&item_id=73009
There was lots of hoo haa about these when they first came into he vintage internet world in 10-12 years back.I know that Andy Loney had a shitload of them,and they are no at all rare.He got a few AFA'd knowing that people would pay good money for them.I paid £80 shipped in 2003 :roll: They are a veryunique addition to a focus run,or even just as a stand alone item.They are not proof cards though,and simply unused cardbacks.People had debated whether some were used for samples etc,but there is no proof to that.I have seen/heard of the following available characters:
Lando Skiff
Biker Scout
Boba Fett
Squid Head
C3P0 R/L
and a few others,that i cant remember.There were only 7-8 characters available,with Boba and Biker being the 'Rare' pieces of the bunch.
That wanker Billy Boy used to own quite a few IIRC,and had actually seen piles and piles of them at toy shows years ago.Saying that,i wouldnt trust that cunts opinion anyway.
Hope this helps.
Lee
The ROTJ Palitoy backers were found a long,long time ago and were being traded/sold for as little as 50p to £1 in the late 80's-90's.I have one in my long gone Lando Skiff production run shown on the SWCA:
http://theswca.com/index.php?action=disp_item&item_id=73009
There was lots of hoo haa about these when they first came into he vintage internet world in 10-12 years back.I know that Andy Loney had a shitload of them,and they are no at all rare.He got a few AFA'd knowing that people would pay good money for them.I paid £80 shipped in 2003 :roll: They are a veryunique addition to a focus run,or even just as a stand alone item.They are not proof cards though,and simply unused cardbacks.People had debated whether some were used for samples etc,but there is no proof to that.I have seen/heard of the following available characters:
Lando Skiff
Biker Scout
Boba Fett
Squid Head
C3P0 R/L
and a few others,that i cant remember.There were only 7-8 characters available,with Boba and Biker being the 'Rare' pieces of the bunch.
That wanker Billy Boy used to own quite a few IIRC,and had actually seen piles and piles of them at toy shows years ago.Saying that,i wouldnt trust that cunts opinion anyway.
Hope this helps.
Lee
