Toy Toni Observations

[ldr]

More of an observation, and hopefully a sign to tell real Palitoy figures with tri-logo bubbles (rounded bubble corners, squre back plate corners). I have two orignal Palitoy MOCs - Luke Hoth, and Squid Head. Both have tri-logo bubbles.
If you look on the back of both, they have a hard edge imprinted into the backing card on the left side of the bubble, where its pressed so hard into the card.
Can people who own Toy Toni (with the same style bubble) check to see if this hard edge is seen. If not (as suspected if he didnt have the correct factory tools), then this might be a good sign to an orignal factory MOC.

Also i've noticed on my Luke hoth there are paint marks inside (seen on other MOCs to). This suggests the paint on the figures was not dry when put into the bubble. Obviously on Toy Toni's the figure would have been long dried and so there wont be paint marks inside the bubble. So paint marks inside the bubble would suggest a genuine figure.

What are peoples thoughts on this?

Thanks
lewis

 

[ScruffyLookingNH]

Lewis, don't know about the paint theory (I suspect the paint was dry but probably not completely cured) but the impression the sealing machine made when attaching bubbles is one of the recognised tells of a genuine figure as oppose to a Toy Toni which is perfectly flat. For this and other good tells visit (if you haven't already done so) Mr. Palitoy's site which is abundant in detail.

 

[ldr]

I'm pretty sure there was still debate as to whether all Toy Toni's were flat or not on the back?

I thought Jason was saying some Toy Toni's can have the bubble depression on the reverse. Where the depression is all the way round the bubble, especially on rounded corner backing plates.

Unlike the bubble which I have posted which clearly has a deep, hard edge.

 

[ODB]

A Couple of my Trilogos have paint scrapes on the inside of the bubble and they did not come from Toy Toni nor are any Trilogos under suspicion. I don't think the scrapes would come from the paint not being dry or cured, they were handled pretty roughly in the factory but we don't see any examples of fudged or smeared figures. The scrapes are probably from general wear either through rough handling or perhaps just age.

 

[ScruffyLookingNH]

If that's the case then it looks like I need to revisit Jason's guide

 

[ldr]

ODB on the Luke I have it definately looks like a wet paint 'smear' on the inside of the bubble...not a scrape from the figure hitting the inside.

I also meant tri-logo bubbles on Jedi cards, not actual tri-logo cards.

 

[ODB]

What I mean is that some of my Trilogos which haven't been at the centre of the controversy have very similar scrapes on the inside of the bubbles, so I don't think these are indicative of a Toy Toni. Plus wasn't it suspected that he was buying up high quality figures to recard anyway, thus negating the need to repaint or touch up.

How the scrapes appear though I don't know.

 

[ldr]

Sorry bit of confusion...what I'm saying is if there ARE paint rubs/smears inside a bubble, then it most likely ISN'T a Toy Toni (on Palitoy cards)

If the smears are due to not cured or slightly wet paint, then this would have had to happen at the time of making the figures, and not any later.

When Toy Toni put his together the paint on the figures would have been cured/dried, and so there wouldn't be paint smears inside the bubble.

 

[ldr]

Ok so ive just been told Toni didnt have any Tri-logo bubbles, so the bubble impression in this case doesnt make any difference.

However, the paint smears inside the bubbles might still be a bit of sign its not a Toy Toni.

 

[mr_palitoy]

Late to the party.

Tri logo bubbles are all ok. Toni didn't have these or they were too fragile to survive his ironing process.

Pressing on the backs of the cards are more pronounced round the bubble area on factory sesks whereas Toni's are dead flat.

There are always exceptions. Some factory seaks are flatter too. So I look at all the tells on a given card to come to a decision.

Cheers Jason

 

[pizzathehutt]

i donno about the tri logos being all ok.

i bought a few years ago from his stall in brighton a very suspect looking tri logo impreial dignitary

 

[edd_jedi]

i donno about the tri logos being all ok.

i bought a few years ago from his stall in brighton a very suspect looking tri logo impreial dignitary

As Jason says there are lots of factors to consider. I have seen plenty of trilogos with poor bubble seals, one even fell off in the post to me once, that doesn't mean they are fake. Toni is known to have sold unused ROTJ cardbacks and was stock-piling those same figures with multiple eBay accounts. That's why people are 99% sure they can identify his fakes, it's not all about the items themselves. Until unused trilogo cards or other such evidence surfaces, trilogos are all safe.

 

[theforceuk]

Yeah I've seen in hand some right dodgy Trilogo seals and have one which is The Emperor. Everything was done cheap and fast with them IMO.

 

[talldroid77]

With regards to Toy Toni cards is it true that afa and ukg have ceased grading Palitoy ROTJ cards due to trhe scam as someone on Ebay has led me to believe?

I'm asking as I own a few but none have the hard edge described above but all have an impression on the back from pressing the bubble - I'm pretty sure they are good (some bought from a respected seller on here who showed me some toy tonis to compare when I bought them) and it would be a shame if they could never be graded.

Surely the guys at afa and ukg should have enough experience to tell the fakes?

Thanks for an informative thread and for any comments on this post

 

[Hothrebel]

Unfortunately the graders are covering their own arses and won't accept any figures that have been deamed to be affected.

 

[talldroid77]

Ha ha. Cheers for the info. I can see their logic but as professional 'authorities' and experts one would of thought they would make some effort to work out how to definitively tell a genuine card rather than leave a question mark over what must be a hell of a lot of genuine cardbacks.

In any event I'm pretty satisfied those I have are good and will be hanging on to them so its not so much of an issue for myself - guess it will be up to collectors and threads like these to do the work.

Sos for the distraction let the discussion continue!