Today on Facebook...

[user 5830]

Stats.. God love 'em… The one that stands out to me (and I've used Echo to sell recently and donated to their charity as part of that sale, so have no issue with that group), is that the stats given show in the last 30 days there have been 4506 'active members', one would assume that that to be active they must make a post or click like on a feed/thread, not just be someone that has liked the actual page… interaction with it would make you active. Fair assumption?

I can also see that there have been in the past 30 days 4196 posts, so actual contributory text to aid discussion, sales or purchases ("claim" / "PM sent")
This can only lead to one conclusion, if active members post (4506 of them) and there are only 4196 posts… either posts are being regularly deleted and not recorded or at best each active member is posting once at best each and a handful (c400 others) are interacting with those posts, not really a community.

Either way, the 10,064 people on Echo rhetoric, is utter nonsense, yes, 10,064 people like the page... but the stats show 4506 at the most, given that a 30 day period is a fair view of activity. From what I can see on Edd's stats, the Forum is growing, the members page shows over 4700 registered users; there are a chunk of zero post members (c1500) but, the majority of the zero posters are brand new.
So on the forum there's an active posting base of 68% of its membership
On Echo Base an active posting base of 55% of its membership

So, one has more members, but both has a very similar active membership that actually post and contribute

Jeez, I have 5268 followers on my (predominantly Star Wars driven) Instagram feed, do I know them, no, maybe a dozen of them… am I famous or important because of it, Insta-famous maybe! :lol: :lol: :lol: I certainly wouldn't be quoting it at the start of any discussion as to why my Instagram is better than yours..

What the actual contribution is on each of the two platforms is not something that the stats clearly reveal, however 9 words per post average is a slightly damming stat in that this thread alone doesn't have many posts on it less than 9 words and a statistical view as this would rocket that average up (404 so far BTW) simply by its inclusion. I would personally not write something like this on any Facebook group as it would simply be a waste of me typing it, no one would see it after a few moments and it would be subsumed into the sales on most of them.

It does suggest that if an opening sales post is say 100 words and 4 people write "claim" and 3 put "PM sent" , of course four more write someone's name and a couple of "bump" in response that gets you an average of nine words per post… It's a selling site, it's what you would expect.

Now, if that is what they advertise themselves as a sales site (I like the car boot sale comment personally as it reflects the general trading style on most Facebook groups) which is what they are and not a community which they all seem to think they are, but, what they are not; no stats required to explain that difference, just use your eyes and look at pretty much any Facebook group, then I do think a lot of the tension would dissipate. It up to folk to educate themselves about what they are buying and what it is worth, not the Admins and equally its fair game to laugh at and mock some of the beyond stupid things written on any Facebook group or forum, be that "what's this worth" 2 minutes after someone else posted the same (probably worthless) item, "mail call" which I will never understand on a selling page or "great price" at something they have no idea what it is or what the price should be…

The best thing to do is keep this place growing and full of knowledge and the more interested parties that take the hobby seriously will dip in and out here and learn to appreciate it, the rest will just do their thing no matter how upset we get.

 

[edd_jedi]

Only a week ago one of the admins was promoting EB Australia on another aussie page, his first and only post so that should mean others could post on Echo or does it only work when it suits?

Yep funny that, because Echo admin Paul Desykes or "Leahs Toys" as he's been known on here for 9 years has no problem spamming other forums and websites with his eBay sales:

From his last few posts in this thread you would think he had just popped his head in to see what the fuss was about. For somebody who hates this forum so much he sure used to spend a lot of time here before he invented Facebook.

 

[xbomber]

I think it's all been said. I use both forums and Facebook groups as they serve two different purposes.

There are cringe-making David Bent-style antics on Echo (see my signature for a recent example) and a bit too much backslapping for my taste ("Hey everyone, I sent Bob this figure for free because that's the Echo way")... BUT it's great for buying and selling and introducing people to this fine passtime.

Hopefully the prices they're stoking will settle down a little soon.

Your signature and its usage sums up the attitude of this thread perfectly. Mocking. Belittling. Elitism.

Thanks for your opinion. Mine is that you need to be less precious.

I'd have enjoyed and appropriated the quote regardless of whether it was sourced from Echo, here or indeed some bloke down the pub . The joy in the quote is the magical "massive **** factor" not a hidden intention to belittle. Especially when (as you may have noted from the same post) I'm one of the posters here who has time for Echo.

 

[RetroDan16]

Ok, I went to bed earlier thinking that might be the end of it; I'd given you some pointless stats that you didn't think I could get, I have constantly stated I'm not speaking for Echo but the attitudes towards Facebook as a whole and still it just becomes a thread criticising the group, the people you don't like within it and it's practices.
It's clear that's all this'll ever be about and that's fine; however I'm not going to keep going in circles when it ends up with the same track of Echo.
When even a jokey comment about ICQ gets taken way too seriously, I know I'm wasting both mine and your time because it's clear we'll never agree here. I guess only time will tell on that score. I wish you the best with your chosen platform. I'm sure you'll still be here long after I'm done with Facebook and groups and pie charts. Oh, and the beloved Echo.
I was hoping something productive or positive might come of this thread, sadly not though.

 

[edd_jedi]

Nice try Dan, you're the only person who's been consistently arrogant, condescending and plain wrong in this thread (OK I was wrong about the stats.) The fact you stayed up til nearly 2 in the morning trying to prove your point shows you do care about it. Don't have the balls to apologise for being wrong though I see.

 

[RetroDan16]

Nice try Dan, you're the only person who's been consistently arrogant, condescending and plain wrong in this thread (OK I was wrong about the stats.) The fact you stayed up til nearly 2 in the morning trying to prove your point shows you do care about it. Don't have the balls to apologise for being wrong though I see.

Not once have I spoken condescendingly Edd, nor did I stay up until 2am collating pointless figures for you.
Happy to apologise for anything that might have come across wrongly (internet/context) or anything that you might think is wrong.
I'm not 'trying' anything.

 

[Mr-shifter]

Dan,

Could you answer my point about the toy Toni scandal, and how, if as you suggest, facebooks take over from forums, how something like that could ever happen again but on Facebook?

What I mean is a community driven investigation into one of the biggest issues to come to the fore of collecting in recent years, that resulted in exposure on national television. Tell me how that could happen using an average of nine words per post?

Dan,

Your thoughts on this question. You keep avoiding it and picking the pieces out you want. It's not an echo centric question, it's about the Facebook platform in general.

 

[edd_jedi]

None of them have answered any of these questions because they know the answer is "Facebook can't do that." And that alone shows their arrogance without even saying anything, refusing to admit there is value beyond their little group.

 

[theforceuk]

I'll talk about Facebook as a hole, it's a stat accumulating social networking sight which sole purpose is to gat masses amount of personal information so that information can be sold to marketing companies. This information is then used to spam your account trying to sell you stuff.

I use Facebook to stay in contact with old friends which is what it was originally designed for.

Then it was sold.

That's why I like this thread.

 

[RetroDan16]

Dan,

Could you answer my point about the toy Toni scandal, and how, if as you suggest, facebooks take over from forums, how something like that could ever happen again but on Facebook?

What I mean is a community driven investigation into one of the biggest issues to come to the fore of collecting in recent years, that resulted in exposure on national television. Tell me how that could happen using an average of nine words per post?

Dan,

Your thoughts on this question. You keep avoiding it and picking the pieces out you want. It's not an echo centric question, it's about the Facebook platform in general.

Apologies on missing this, when did the scandal break exactly?
Before the boom in Facebook groups as in when forums were more frequently used?

 

[RetroDan16]

None of them have answered any of these questions because they know the answer is "Facebook can't do that." And that alone shows their arrogance without even saying anything, refusing to admit there is value beyond their little group.

Ignoring the point it's only me, not they, not Echo shows your arrogance in thinking Echo cares what's said here.
However, individually - me - it does bother because I find it divisive.

 

[edd_jedi]

when did the scandal break exactly?
Before the boom in Facebook groups as in when forums were more frequently used?

It was December 2013, Facebook was almost 10 years old by then.

 

[edd_jedi]

Ignoring the point it's only me, not they

So you haven't noticed Adam or Paul's comments in this thread over the last couple of days

As I said to Adam several pages ago, if you guys are so concerned about division how about you start with a review of your rules that openly encourage it.

 

[lejackal]

Dan,

Could you answer my point about the toy Toni scandal, and how, if as you suggest, facebooks take over from forums, how something like that could ever happen again but on Facebook?

What I mean is a community driven investigation into one of the biggest issues to come to the fore of collecting in recent years, that resulted in exposure on national television. Tell me how that could happen using an average of nine words per post?

Dan,

Your thoughts on this question. You keep avoiding it and picking the pieces out you want. It's not an echo centric question, it's about the Facebook platform in general.

Apologies on missing this, when did the scandal break exactly?
Before the boom in Facebook groups as in when forums were more frequently used?

Dan I think you should take up politics for the expert question dodging.

Ben has asked you to surmise how a similar scandal may be broken on the Facebook platform, how would the research be stored for future users to refer to?

I know the answer, not sure you do?

 

[RetroDan16]

when did the scandal break exactly?
Before the boom in Facebook groups as in when forums were more frequently used?

It was December 2013, Facebook was almost 10 years old by then.

Trading groups however had not.
If the scandal broke today where do you think the biggest spikes would be?

 

[Hooch]

I have constantly stated I'm not speaking for Echo but the attitudes towards Facebook as a whole and still it just becomes a thread criticising the group, the people you don't like within it and it's practices.
It's clear that's all this'll ever be about and that's fine; however I'm not going to keep going in circles when it ends up with the same track of Echo.
When even a jokey comment about ICQ gets taken way too seriously, I know I'm wasting both mine and your time because it's clear we'll never agree here. I guess only time will tell on that score. I wish you the best with your chosen platform. I'm sure you'll still be here long after I'm done with Facebook and groups and pie charts. Oh, and the beloved Echo.
I was hoping something productive or positive might come of this thread, sadly not though.

You say your not speaking for echo but were quick to point out the stats about the group
As for any criticism towards its practices shouldn't the admins set the example? Don't you all get together and work out the rules? Or again does it only apply when it suits the group or the individual admins?

 

[edd_jedi]

Trading groups however had not.

Ah here we go again, Echo is the centre of the universe! It was the first Star Wars group on Facebook! Nobody had thought of it before then! Er...

Struggling to figure out if you are in denial or just blinded by your own arrogance.

 

[RetroDan16]

I have constantly stated I'm not speaking for Echo but the attitudes towards Facebook as a whole and still it just becomes a thread criticising the group, the people you don't like within it and it's practices.
It's clear that's all this'll ever be about and that's fine; however I'm not going to keep going in circles when it ends up with the same track of Echo.
When even a jokey comment about ICQ gets taken way too seriously, I know I'm wasting both mine and your time because it's clear we'll never agree here. I guess only time will tell on that score. I wish you the best with your chosen platform. I'm sure you'll still be here long after I'm done with Facebook and groups and pie charts. Oh, and the beloved Echo.
I was hoping something productive or positive might come of this thread, sadly not though.

You say your not speaking for echo but were quick to point out the stats about the group
As for any criticism towards its practices shouldn't the admins set the example? Don't you all get together and work out the rules? Or again does it only apply when it suits the group or the individual admins?

I only provided some stats because Edd rudely suggested I couldn't.
As I said when I posted them, they are pointless because they are two very different platforms with very different demographics and users.
I really cannot keep stressing that I am not speaking on behalf of Echo, but people hear seem to ignore that and so we go in circles ad nauseum.

 

[Mr-shifter]

Dan,

Could you answer my point about the toy Toni scandal, and how, if as you suggest, facebooks take over from forums, how something like that could ever happen again but on Facebook?

What I mean is a community driven investigation into one of the biggest issues to come to the fore of collecting in recent years, that resulted in exposure on national television. Tell me how that could happen using an average of nine words per post?

Dan,

Your thoughts on this question. You keep avoiding it and picking the pieces out you want. It's not an echo centric question, it's about the Facebook platform in general.

Apologies on missing this, when did the scandal break exactly?
Before the boom in Facebook groups as in when forums were more frequently used?

http://www.starwarsforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=11326

The thread is 202 pages. This is where the scandal broke. There are pages and pages of information there.

My point is that if it was a Facebook thread.

1. The thread never happens, as it would have disappeared from existence. As you will notice the thread originally started as something else.

2. The evidence that was compiled on that thread is still there, in full. That would also not have been possible on a Facebook comments thread.

3. Facebook was about when that happened. This thread is now here for ever, and guys late to the game have access to this piece of history.

It's this sort of thing that the new generation aren't bothering with, because it's only aloof and elitist collectors who give a **** about it. If it's not selling loose figures it's not relevant.

 

[RetroDan16]

Trading groups however had not.

Ah here we go again, Echo is the centre of the universe! It was the first Star Wars group on Facebook! Nobody had thought of it before then! Er...

group.png

Struggling to figure out if you are in denial or just blinded by your own arrogance.

Again, I never mentioned Echo and it's clear that groups were in their infancy.
Please let it go Edd, it's really becoming rather repetitive.
You hate it, that's fine.

 

[edd_jedi]

No I quite like Facebook actually, I spend more time on it than I do on here. It's great for sales and quick chat. In fact it's been a lot less annoying since I unfollowed Echo a couple of days ago.

 

[RetroDan16]

Glad that's all clear then. As I said yesterday, this thread will continue to be counter productive to attitudes in all camps; for me that's the most frustrating thing.

 

[edd_jedi]

I'll gladly delete this thread if you guys remove your rule not allowing links to other websites/groups/eBay. Together that would be good for the community, can't argue with that.

 

[RetroDan16]

I'll gladly delete this thread if you guys remove your rule not allowing links to other websites/groups/eBay. Together that would be good for the community, can't argue with that.

Are you admitting it's generally insulting then?

 

[maxf]

Facebook is better than the forums for buying and selling - partly because of the higher levels of traffic, but also the format seems to suit it more. Knowing people's real name is another help.

I really can't believe people argue that facebook is anywhere near as good as forums for learning, spreading and storing knowledge though - and thats what a big part of the hobby used to be. Facebook shows me what it thinks I want to see - on some occasions I see a thread which is of interest, then realise it's not brand new and facebook is only just showing me it! The search function is far less useful the RS or SWFUK (RS is where the majority of useful early info is stored IMO, so this isnt a pro-SWFUK post).

If I was selling, I'd probably use facebook. If I want to chat with friends, share something or do some research, I'll choose the forums. Surely they both have their place?

What would be really fun to see would be the stats for the SWCA (toysrgus in the old days) and see how that has grown, or shrunk, as SW collecting has evolved. Has it increased, or are people less willing to do research now?

 

[Hooch]

As for any criticism towards its practices shouldn't the admins set the example? Don't you all get together and work out the rules? Or again does it only apply when it suits the group or the individual admins?

I really cannot keep stressing that I am not speaking on behalf of Echo, but people hear seem to ignore that and so we go in circles ad nauseum.

Taking away what group, pretend its any kind of group
Since you are a admin you should be ale to give your view on my other questions

 

[edd_jedi]

Are you admitting it's generally insulting then?

This website has always been a bit controversial, that's what attracts people to it. There aren't many collecting sites or pages where you can pretty much say what you like as long as it's not crossing the line in to hatred. At the time it was a breath of fresh air compared to heavily moderated places like Rebel Scum, and now many of the Facebook groups.

As said a few pages ago people on this site take the piss out of everyone if they're being dicks - eBay sellers, individuals on Facebook, FB groups, members here and even me sometimes when I deserve it. I would happily co-operate with Echo and other FB groups/websites etc but I think giving people a platform to vent frustrations is a positive thing rather than the negative you think it is. It would be positive if any of it was taken on board anyway, Paul's response to the criticism was asking me to deactivate his account. Says it all really.

 

[Mr-shifter]

That seems to be the Facebook way. Don't like it delete it.

What's the word for that.

Oh yeah

Censorship.

 

[newswseller]

When i was building my loose collection, i used to buy bulk lots on ebay, keep a few figures that i wanted and then sold the rest on the facebook groups, mainly echo as it had more clientele (suckers?), as long as you kept feeding the masses semi decent priced tat they lapped it up...

It's definitely a sheep/pack group mentality over there, you could say cult even, and as soon as you question anything you get ridiculed, abused, set upon by not the cleverest of folk and then banned.. the timing was lucky for me as by that point i had completed my collection, so had no need to sell anymore.

From my experience, a typical person who resides solely on a facebook group will typically:

1.be a newbie with zero knowledge of what they are buying
2.refer to ebay as evilbay, yet still say 'look at what i bought from evilbay', oh the irony
3.not be the brightest spark
4.not realise they are being taken advantage of, as in why don't they check on ebay before buying stuff
5.will be constantly show boating really common things
6.will love back slapping other guys for buying something severely overpriced
7.have no real idea of what rare or mint condition is

 

[peekaygee73]

1.be a newbie with zero knowledge of what they are buying
2.refer to ebay as evilbay, yet still say 'look at what i bought from evilbay', oh the irony
3.not be the brightest spark
4.not realise they are being taken advantage of, as in why don't they check on ebay before buying stuff
5.will be constantly show boating really common things
6.will love back slapping other guys for buying something severely overpriced
7.have no real idea of what rare or mint condition is

There was a classic example of most of these last week; a guy bought a Darth Vader's Star Destroyer playset loose for £28 (outside of Echo). It was literally bare bones with none of the parts and probably worth no more than a tenner. He'd posted specifically to say how pleased he was with the bargain he'd bought. Some people then pointed out everything that was missing and how it wasn't such a bargain. The poor/stupid (delete per your preference) sod clearly had no idea about what he was purchasing before he went and bought it.

This is why educating your members is so important. Echo's a victim of its success; we can argue that its members should be educating themselves (and I've no idea why they don't), but if they're relying on Echo as their sole source of SW vintage knowledge (and a lot of Echo members post saying they only visit there and nowhere else) then it's the responsibility of admin to educate them. I've tried this myself and seen others try it too and they either get belittled, ignored or (most bizarrely of all) told they're wrong by other members who clearly don't know what they're talking about. If admin were doing this educating it'd be a different story, and until this happens I'm afraid collectors on other groups and sites with more knowledge are always going to be standing and staring.

Picking up on inflated pricing or educating members after they've been fleeced is reactive; sharing information on collecting topics with your members to prevent them being fleeced is proactive.