The Mega Rare Palitoys...

[palitoyjunky]

Thanks for sharing Ian.

 

[Andyclarke]

Great post Max. Not sure we'll ever get to the bottom of this mystery.

Would love for more to emerge this year.

Me too Andy, me too, I will get digging around on my next trip...

Look fwd to it. It's been a long time since your last Palitoy trip abroad. Pictures please. :wink:

 

[80s_collector]

Thanks for sharing Ian.

No worries, I remember them having the larger logos, but I lost the list of figures,

 

[80s_collector]

Great post Max. Not sure we'll ever get to the bottom of this mystery.

Would love for more to emerge this year.

Me too Andy, me too, I will get digging around on my next trip...

Look fwd to it. It's been a long time since your last Palitoy trip abroad. Pictures please. :wink:

One day Andy, the pics wil be on here.....that I promise you but not yet mate....let me sell a few more bits first.. :lol:

 

[Snaketibe]

Great post Max, some good points asked...

Ok, you know I like keeping my cards close, but heres a little snippet of info.....

The Palitoy 30 backs were not samples, they were definately put into production to be circulated, Im not sure what month they were released and Im not sure how long they were sold for, I never knew how rare these were until recently and Im not sure why they are so rare.
All I can really tell you is from concrete evidence that I observed.

A while ago I opened a sealed case of 48 sw figures, a plain brown cardboard box with a white label on the side stating sw 48 assorted, I expected the case to be full of Palitoy 12bks and 20bks, basically a mixed assortment.

The case consisted of 26 x 12bks, 9 x 20bks and the rest were 30 bks, this was new to me as I had never seen ESB figures packed with 12 and 20 backs before, at first I never took much notice until later when I was advised of the value of a few of these.

Hope that helps mate.

Well, although I was certainly alive and kicking and collecting these things myself at the time, the 8-year-old me sadly cannot recall any worthwhile details about this (beyond the fact that Kenner SW cards were definitely sold in the UK as I remember seeing the Dewback on the back of some cards and wondering what the hell it was and why I didn't see it for sale anywhere ). Back then, I was far more interested in what was stuck to the front of the cards than what was printed on them.

However, at the risk of telling everyone what they already know, Spoons' post here: http://starwarsforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=32673&start=30 shows a very nice picture of Palitoy 12, 20 and 30 backs (plus some SW and ESB Kenners ) mixing together nicely on the shop shelves back in the day. I haven't reposted it in this thread as I don't wish to step on any toes regarding reposting etiquette, however it's certainly worth a look.

Can anyone more eagle-eyed than me glean anything from this photo regarding the 'missing' 30 backs?

 

[maxf]

The case consisted of 26 x 12bks, 9 x 20bks and the rest were 30 bks

That's really interesting. So, the repacking of figures argument is less likely, in this scenario as the 12/20bks would be repacked surely? Also interesting that the 12bks were still being shipped at the same time as the 30bks.

Well that's no clearer

 

[80s_collector]

The case consisted of 26 x 12bks, 9 x 20bks and the rest were 30 bks

That's really interesting. So, the repacking of figures argument is less likely, in this scenario as the 12/20bks would be repacked surely? Also interesting that the 12bks were still being shipped at the same time as the 30bks.

Well that's no clearer

Its very interesting, even for me actually as I did wonder about the weird mix, we can all speculate and come up with theories but afterall these were mass produced toys packed in factories, could it have been a Friday afternoon case or did palitoy pack figures willy nilly generally or did they have left over stocks of 12bks and 20bks which they mixed in with the new ESB figures just so they could clear them......who knows really and I doubt we will ever know.

What baffles me more than anything is that as you know the majority of my items came from the same source, the company was a retailer but also a huge clearance discount chain and I do wonder whether they bought the sw, esb, rotj and meccano cards in at the same time as a huge clearance package from either palitoy or another toy wholesaler or was everything they had brought in from all their different retail outlets into one place when they were winding up their business.

Saying all that though the factory case of 48 was sealed direct from Palitoy, so if the company had bought all these in lets say 1986, why werent they all packed in the later large boxes of 96 mixed in with rotj and tri logo figures.

Personally, with my knowledge of wholesalers and manufacturers, my first theory makes sense, I do think that Palitoy packed the 12bks and 20bks in with the new ESB figures to clear them out as at that time all the retailers would be placing orders for the new ESB range to put in their retail outlets, but a lot of retailers wouldnt be reordering the first sw 12bk and 20bk cards as in their eyes they were the range from the last two years.

Finally getting back to why the first 12 on ESB 30Bk cards are so rare, in theory its pretty obvious really if you think about it.....the first 12 had been sold for approximately 3 years on 12bk cards and on 20bk cards, so everyone would have these figures already....Palitoy maybe realised that their future market was to make different figures as their retail outlets and possbily palitoy themselves maybe had a lot of their earlier product still in stock, but by the time they got to 1983, 84 and 85 retailers were then maybe asking them to manufacture all the first figures on rotj cards due to the fact that when each film came to the screens it brought in new customers....

Afterall that who really knows but it gives us all something to consider.

 

[Andyclarke]

Personally I think mixed boxes like that were purely transitional boxes probably packed early 1980 using whatever cards were available at the time, after all the retailer would get the same selection of figures with the added bonus of the new film logo. These type of 30 backs could have been rushed through to fall in line with the impending release of ESB. Perhaps the 12 back characters on 30 backs are not linked to the 30B but more a hybrid 12 and 30A after all the fronts are identical apart from the film name.
With 3 different variations of cards released in 1980 (30A, 30B and 41) and all the 41 back revisions a lot was going on with Palitoy at the time. I could easily see less demand for the normal 12 and 20 back boxes, which could have left overstock in the factories. Then in 1986 when they started clearing them out these older boxes could have surfaced after being left untouched for years.
Ian, I am assuming the 13 were 12 back characters on 30 back cards and not ESB figures?

 

[80s_collector]

Andy, I agree with you there actually, maybe they were so busy during that period that they packed anything they had to hand in boxes to fulfill huge orders and possibly back orders from retailers.

I personally dont think there was overstock in the factories of 12 + 20bks around 1986, Im pretty certain of that, but I could be wrong, mine came from a retailer, totally different to a factory in all fairness.

Oh no, as I mentioned in my previous post yesterday, there were 3 x luke Bespins, approximately 2 or 3 other empire figures and the rest were the first 12, I cant remember the exact list or count due to the fact of my old phone packing in I lost my notes on my iphone as mentioned before.

 

[Andyclarke]

Andy, I agree with you there actually, maybe they were so busy during that period that they packed anything they had to hand in boxes to fulfill huge orders and possibly back orders from retailers.

I personally dont think there was overstock in the factories of 12 + 20bks around 1986, Im pretty certain of that, but I could be wrong, mine came from a retailer, totally different to a factory in all fairness.

Oh no, as I mentioned in my previous post yesterday, there were 3 x luke Bespins, approximately 2 or 3 other empire figures and the rest were the first 12, I cant remember the exact list or count due to the fact of my old phone packing in I lost my notes on my iphone as mentioned before.

Interesting if there were 30A's in there too, as effectively it then becomes a misc boxes of figures, do you still have the trade box abroad as the code on the side and the description might be interesting. I'm not prying but that would mean about 6 or 7 12 back characters on 30 back cards, correct?

 

[spoons]

However, at the risk of telling everyone what they already know, Spoons' post here: http://starwarsforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=32673&start=30 shows a very nice picture of Palitoy 12, 20 and 30 backs (plus some SW and ESB Kenners ) mixing together nicely on the shop shelves back in the day. I haven't reposted it in this thread as I don't wish to step on any toes regarding reposting etiquette, however it's certainly worth a look.

Can anyone more eagle-eyed than me glean anything from this photo regarding the 'missing' 30 backs?

I pinched the photo from the world wibe web so no etiqutee needed as far as I'm concerned

now back to reading this very interesting thread

 

[Andyclarke]

Ironically I took those photos when I went to visit Vectis and posted them on this site. Small world this interweb thingy!

 

[maxf]

Could any of the retailer catalogues help us out? Do they list assortments or even just box codes?

We've seen a box of 12bks and a box of 20bks sell, and perhaps more figure boxes (all through vectis) - do the codes on these boxes leave any 'gaps' to fill in?

 

[spoons]

Ironically I took those photos when I went to visit Vectis and posted them on this site. Small world this interweb thingy!

I'll give you a mention on the diecast website then Andy, as thats why I was looking for them. Amazingly i'd not noticed one of the photos was a photo of a photo - I was too busy looking at the pacakging :lol:

http://www.vintagestarwarsdiecast.co.uk/featured-articles

 

[80s_collector]

There were a few put it that way......

I deffo have the box, I dont throw nothing sw related away, not here though it is abroard.

Personally with my experience I often wonder if the codes are a figure assortment code or are they a batch code as they dont marry up or work in a sequence at all........everybody speculates about box counts, but I dont think they were ever packaged like that, back in those days I often wonder if they just packaged them willy nilly....

Some boxes I have seen over the years have different codes on, often 4 or 5 digit codes, but other boxes have nothing apart from sw figures 48 or 24 with no code, other boxes just state sw figures, some have 48 only on the label and some havnt even got a label and never did have.......so its mind boggling really and I dont think theres a real answer to this.

 

[emperorburns]

I have only seen the ones mentioned.han.chewy.leia.dsc.ben and lxw since i started collecting sw again in 1990.but as a kid i saw luke on 30bk and he had brown hair.this couldnt have been a repack as no brown hair lukes came on 12bks.we know palitoy definatly took unsold stock back for at least woolworths.but we only know for sure palitoy took woolworths unsold/damaged stock.but that was only for the 99p 8pks.they didnt recard those.so was it a cost saving excersise by palitoy/woolworths.or was this their only way of taking unsold stock back as woolworths was their number one customer? Palitoy might not have been able to buy that many first 12 figures from hong kong then..the factorys were probably focusing on the newer esb figuers than the old ones from the last movie..either way most first 20 are hard to find on esb cards.with even the most common ones han and ben being still not that common and chewy and dsc being known in just a couple of examples then its not that suprising others havent been found at all.
Daren

 

[maxf]

I have only seen the ones mentioned.han.chewy.leia.dsc.ben and lxw since i started collecting sw again in 1990.but as a kid i saw luke on 30bk and he had brown hair.this couldnt have been a repack as no brown hair lukes came on 12bks.we know palitoy definatly took unsold stock back for at least woolworths.but we only know for sure palitoy took woolworths unsold/damaged stock.but that was only for the 99p 8pks.they didnt recard those.so was it a cost saving excersise by palitoy/woolworths.or was this their only way of taking unsold stock back as woolworths was their number one customer? Palitoy might not have been able to buy that many first 12 figures from hong kong then..the factorys were probably focusing on the newer esb figuers than the old ones from the last movie..either way most first 20 are hard to find on esb cards.with even the most common ones han and ben being still not that common and chewy and dsc being known in just a couple of examples then its not that suprising others havent been found at all.
Daren

Hi Darren,

I think I bought your old leia cardback from you! Good to hear your views - especially on the 30bk Luke with brown hair! Interesting stuff.

I guess the 30bks may be somewhat akin to say the meccano ESB figures where even cardbacks are hard to locate. But as the meccano cards lasted the whole run on a single card, but the 30s turned into 41s, 45as etc they were produced in greater numbers... but we still dont see them often.

 

[jedisearcher]

There were a few put it that way......

I deffo have the box, I dont throw nothing sw related away, not here though it is abroard.

Personally with my experience I often wonder if the codes are a figure assortment code or are they a batch code as they dont marry up or work in a sequence at all........everybody speculates about box counts, but I dont think they were ever packaged like that, back in those days I often wonder if they just packaged them willy nilly....

Some boxes I have seen over the years have different codes on, often 4 or 5 digit codes, but other boxes have nothing apart from sw figures 48 or 24 with no code, other boxes just state sw figures, some have 48 only on the label and some havnt even got a label and never did have.......so its mind boggling really and I dont think theres a real answer to this.

The catalogues do say what selection of figures will be in there (say, 20 units from the 30 back debut figures, 12 from the 45a debut figures etc.), but even so, we don't know what cards they were shipped on which is the real key now we know there could be multiple cardbacks in the same shipping box.

I think the whole "kids already had them so why send them out on 30 backs" is the real answer here. It's sort of proved by the cantina alien 20 backs which can't have been overly popular on release and they never got much love from Palitoy ever again.

 

[sith-smith]

Well, the cantina creatures can be found in resaonable numbers on 45a.

Never seen them on 41 though there are rumours of greedo.

So they did get some love bit later

 

[80s_collector]

Cheers Chris, I never knew the catalogues gave a reference to this, interesting..

Next time Im away which isnt long away now, Im really going to get some work done and try to come up with some answers, even Im getting the bug and I can now appreciate why you guys are really curious about the history of the Palitoy world during their day.

Im still sure there is no real answer to the case pack outs, but maybe Im wrong........I will do a bit a research soon...