Resealed figure discovery debate - G.Kurtz Palitoy VC Jawa.

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lee gray said:
if toytoni is buying u graded figures to stick onto cards then why is he selling u graded figures on his site http://zoomertoys.ueuo.com/GRADL.htm especially ones which are on the suggested list of what cards he is allegedly sealing as surely they would have been used for his mint cards ?

No C3PO's or Hoth Troopers. I'd hazard a guess though that if he has a 'rolling' stock of U grades, why would he not advertise them?

If they sell at U grade prices, dollar! If someone buys a card, bust it open and stick it on! Bit more work, more dollar!
 
Hi Everyone

thank you to the people on here that have apologised to me for not believing and challenging me, but there is no need to apologised to me , what i came out with was new to most of you and must have come over as a crazy person or just an out right lier ? , so i am cool with you all and understand it was hard for you to take it in as the truth, but thank you for apologising.

i have a reputation to repair and that was what i was on here for in the first place as none of you really know me for how i am only the reputation others have created for me and the actions i have done in the past, all i ask is that people give me the benefit of the dough and if they want to know more then just ask me , but if you can just ask about a specific thing not just verge thing then you will find i will come back with a full facts behind the story.

now down to the matter in hand Toni and the card backs

i do feel i have been the whistle blower on this and stood up and have fought for the truth to come out fully and i plan to say helping out as much as i can till this matter is closed and dealt with properly.


point 1
now we are at a point where we can see or believe there is legal activity its really out of hour hands, its a police matter as its fraud.

point 2
The damage needs to stop now, and as Toni still has suspect toys in a glass cabinet in Briton for sale right now so the damaged is counting and collectors are still buying these figures now.
now if we had of herd from Toni and he was talking to us about how things can move foreword in a way to try to repair the damage then maybe there would me another way forward , but the last post that has come from Toni makes me feel that he is in fact just stalling for time ? and if thats the case i think we need help to stop this damage and i think we have to get the police involved ?.

point 3
its great people are thinking of ways where Toni can give stuff up to help people that has bought his stuff , but as we do not know everyone that has bought these figures there are going to be people that will not get anything back , and if a group of respected collators give out the compensation then how is to say these are sticking there necks out to being sued for not getting this compensation to the people they have missed, so i think we have dose a lot with our amateur abilities we have pulled together very sherlock like but now and we need to pass it over to people that deal with with real crime, as that is what this is its not some toys here, when i first stumbled into this lost history i did not even think about the money side of things , but after a few days it hit me we could be talking about over a million here or more ? this is fraud and as Toni dose not seem to be coming forward fast or at all i think people that are affected should take action if not for them self but for the collectors that can buy one of these figures tomorrow from Toni's class cabinet ?

point 4
As to where these cards should go afterwards ? the law will take care of that ,but i do not think giving it to the big collectors like Sansweet, Gus or as someone sagest in one post myself :-/ this would not be right, just because we are the bigger collators i do not now why we should be given anything ?, i also feel these items should not be destroyed ether ? it matters not if they are out there as if they are made into carded figures that would be hard , and now its all been blown up and everyone knows these carded or uncared card will not have that much value in the futures ever ?,they are apart of the star wars history and now even more they are apart of collators history , we are collators and we should protect history all of it not go around destroying it.

well these are my thoughts but i think we should do something and do it fast.

jason
 
I once met a man called Toni
Who turned out to be a bit phony
He'd iron a Leia
On a wing and a prayer
And send you a box of baloney

:)

Jason
 
mr_palitoy said:
I once met a man called Toni
Who turned out to be a bit phony
He'd iron a Leia
On a wing and a prayer
And send you a box of baloney

:)

Jason


LMAO!! That's good! It put a smile on my face!

Rob
 
Hi all.
I'm like Darren (hello mate!), led to the board via RS.
Couple of points I'd like to make.

1. SO glad I'm a loose collector right now!!
2. I nearly bought one of those horrible grey-limbed Snowtroopers so many times in the 90's, but that itch in the mind always stopped me. Even now I think I made the right decision. They are the equivalent of the modern-era back-door China factory samples in stupid colours. Oops, I mean "prototypes". Sorry.
3. Yes the police will be interested. It is little different in overarching principle to a fake LV bag or a chop-shop car.
4. The values are such that the small claims Court is an appropriate avenue for recompense. Imagine if you all acted simultaneously through your local Courts!

And most importantly:

5. There is surely a case for suing AFA and UKG. They have failed in their stated contractual duty and directly caused a provable loss to each buyer of each piece throughout each reselling by their negligence. I'd be seriously looking into this.
 
How odd

http://forum.rebelscum.com/t1026711-2/

http://forum.rebelscum.com/imagepopup.php?imagename=http%3A%2F%2Fforum.rebelscum.com%2Fphotogallery%2Fdata%2F500%2Fc2-02.JPG
 
Jason (J):

You've still not answered my question regarding the 1000 carded figures you had. 440 Fetts were opened - that still leaves 560 carded figures which you got from Arthur and sold on. These could've been post factory sealed (evidence those jarg upside down Hoth Tropers).

I'm not trying to deflect from Toni here just trying to get the whole picture.

In my opinion though your answer to what you would've done if you'd been able to purchase everything on Arthur's list is a bit disingenuous - you wouldn't've even tried to seal a bubble to a card? This DOES NOT RING TRUE especially with other members calling you out on you selling fake props which you've only vaguely answered.

Not having a go at you Jason - just want to get a clearer picture that's all.
 
jedisearcher said:
How odd

http://forum.rebelscum.com/t1026711-2/

http://forum.rebelscum.com/imagepopup.php?imagename=http%3A%2F%2Fforum.rebelscum.com%2Fphotogallery%2Fdata%2F500%2Fc2-02.JPG

What's odd about that? Lots of fat Americans with no style!
 
theslider said:
jedisearcher said:
How odd

http://forum.rebelscum.com/t1026711-2/

http://forum.rebelscum.com/imagepopup.php?imagename=http%3A%2F%2Fforum.rebelscum.com%2Fphotogallery%2Fdata%2F500%2Fc2-02.JPG

What's odd about that? Lots of fat Americans with no style!

JoeY is in that picture. He may chime in for both clarification and rebuttal on the fat remark.
 
theslider said:
jedisearcher said:
How odd

http://forum.rebelscum.com/t1026711-2/

http://forum.rebelscum.com/imagepopup.php?imagename=http%3A%2F%2Fforum.rebelscum.com%2Fphotogallery%2Fdata%2F500%2Fc2-02.JPG

What's odd about that? Lots of fat Americans with no style!

Look at the second link. Fat Americans with no style and a Palitoy Hoth trooper unused card back!!
 
darthsatan said:
Hi all.
I'm like Darren (hello mate!), led to the board via RS.
Couple of points I'd like to make.

1. SO glad I'm a loose collector right now!!
2. I nearly bought one of those horrible grey-limbed Snowtroopers so many times in the 90's, but that itch in the mind always stopped me. Even now I think I made the right decision. They are the equivalent of the modern-era back-door China factory samples in stupid colours. Oops, I mean "prototypes". Sorry.
3. Yes the police will be interested. It is little different in overarching principle to a fake LV bag or a chop-shop car.
4. The values are such that the small claims Court is an appropriate avenue for recompense. Imagine if you all acted simultaneously through your local Courts!

And most importantly:

5. There is surely a case for suing AFA and UKG. They have failed in their stated contractual duty and directly caused a provable loss to each buyer of each piece throughout each reselling by their negligence. I'd be seriously looking into this.


Hey Mat!!!

All good points,but I'm not sure that there is the collective will to get the ball rolling. I know that so many collectors that I know personally will attempt to get to the bottom of this,but many still are unsure of Toni's guilt.

With this massive difference in opinion,consensus is going to be bloody difficult.

Darren
 
Mr-shifter said:
theslider said:
jedisearcher said:
How odd

http://forum.rebelscum.com/t1026711-2/

http://forum.rebelscum.com/imagepopup.php?imagename=http%3A%2F%2Fforum.rebelscum.com%2Fphotogallery%2Fdata%2F500%2Fc2-02.JPG

What's odd about that? Lots of fat Americans with no style!

Look at the second link. Fat Americans with no style and a Palitoy Hoth trooper unused card back!!

I may have a little extra weight, but I've got tons of style. As if you Brits are all fit and healthy. :roll:

:lol:
Joe
 
tiefighterboy said:
I think you are being evasive Joe....are you also doing modern seals after a hearty meal of whoppers? :lol:

What do you think I'm using to do the heat seals? Fresh Flame Broiled Whoppers! If you look closely on the cards, you can see the indentation of a burger.....oops, gave away my secret. At least I ate the evidence Bwahahahhaaaaa :D :lol:
 
Joseph_Y said:
tiefighterboy said:
I think you are being evasive Joe....are you also doing modern seals after a hearty meal of whoppers? :lol:

What do you think I'm using to do the heat seals? Fresh Flame Broiled Whoppers! If you look closely on the cards, you can see the indentation of a burger.....oops, gave away my secret. At least I ate the evidence Bwahahahhaaaaa :D :lol:

If only Toni were fatter. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
Open up some of the MOCs- check for finger prints.

If they are from Dorothy Mcwiggins of 12 Palitoy Road, Coalville 1982- all good.

If they are not. Oh- no Spegettioooooo!

This is why I think the collectors have taken it as far as they can.
 
TT also sold a lot of Tri Logos. Any clue where these came from ? I checked two of my TT Tri Logos and they look OK, especially they are not C9.
 
_Darren_ said:
Hey Mat!!!

All good points,but I'm not sure that there is the collective will to get the ball rolling. I know that so many collectors that I know personally will attempt to get to the bottom of this,but many still are unsure of Toni's guilt.

With this massive difference in opinion,consensus is going to be bloody difficult.

Darren

I can't help but get the feeling that this is an old internal beef gone public. It's a lot to read through and admittedly not my particular collecting area of interest per se, but that's the overall impression given when all points are collated. Six of one versus half a dozen of the other?
 
We've seen the list of uncarded figures. There were also carded figures and we haven't seen a list for that. Toni is a toy dealer and would have deals elsewhere to source stuff from. He has sold Kenner etc over the years. So he has sold a lot of legitimate stuff too. If he's carded his own figures though, god knows what else he's been up to. I think for now, if your card/figure combo isn't on jj's list then it's ok.

Cheers Jason
 
Yes don't forget as a toy dealer for many years TT would have had lots of other types of genuine figures and MOCS through his hands.
 
Just a point that baffles me, that hopefully someone can clear up.

If this J.J. guy has all the info/documentation and has done for a while and is so sickened by this whole situation, then why wait till now????

If he is now saying authorities should be involved etc. why hasn't he done this previously off of his own back having all the incriminating evidence to hand for years.... :? :? :?

I'm just confused as to what is going on here, and why suddenly after all these years this info has suddenly been offered up.

My theory is this:

Could this be two people who have a lot of secrets regarding old stock that have had a falling out and all the collectors and SWFUK guys are stuck in the middle and being used as weight to one side of the argument????
 
kraftdermacht said:
Bubble too small?!

IMG_0104.jpg


This one is good?!
IMG_0103.jpg

TT bubbles: The 03 one indeed looks good compared to a used card back.

All early TT figures I have look factory sealed, different tooling was used, they do not at all look "homemade".
Even not the 2 ones with bubbles with dimples where 2 more different tools were used.
Hopefully Toni soon comes up with the explanation what really happened.

Wolfgang
 
Pigcity - this is a big unanswered element in the whole thing for me too.

1) Why now?
2) Why the apparent haste in his posts to nail this on Toni first before investigating the full picture
3) The ironed bubble cards. JJ is the only one who is attributing these to Toni. Others have clearly stated theirs came from either Jim Stevenson or JJ himself.

JJ this is not personal towards you and if all this is true i appreciate anyone who has helped to bring this to the collecting communities attention. However you must understand that we need all loose ends in this affair tied up so that the right person(s) are held responsible and we have the best chance of clearly identifying which moc are in question.

Toni has a lot he needs to answer for clearly. But there is more to this.
 
Yes Wolfgang it is very important that Toni comes forward with accurate reportings of what he did so that we can safely say these are fine and these are not. He's not likely to come on here and do that however I think our best hope is for some 'calmer' collectors who have a relationship with him to meet up and discuss in a civilised manner.
 
kraftdermacht said:
kraftdermacht said:
Bubble too small?!

IMG_0104.jpg


This one is good?!
IMG_0103.jpg

TT bubbles: The 03 one indeed looks good compared to a used card back.

All early TT figures I have look factory sealed, different tooling was used, they do not at all look "homemade".
Even not the 2 ones with bubbles with dimples where 2 more different tools were used.
Hopefully Toni soon comes up with the explanation what really happened.

Wolfgang

Early TT's are likely to be the carded stock that he got from Arthur. He only started carding the uncarded ones when
the carded ones ran out.

:)

Jason
 
Whatever this brings: As I mentioned the GM cards with English text on the back are printed differently or have different cardboard. Can be clearly seen under blacklight where they are bluish (hard to photograph).

I'm still waiting for pictures of used GM cards or GM cards from stores with English text on the back.
Jason, found any so far?

Wolfgang
 

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The carded figures where the bubbles have dimples in the corners may be carded figures which failed QC. This is the carded
stock that Toni got which we havent seen a list for yet.

:)

Jason
 
kraftdermacht said:
Whatever this brings: As I mentioned the GM cards with English text on the back are printed differently or have different cardboard. Can be clearly seen under blacklight where they are bluish (hard to photograph).

I'm still waiting for pictures of used GM cards or GM cards from stores with English text on the back.
Jason, found any so far?

Wolfgang

I saw a link to one on ebay which was bought in the UK. It was worn and had price sticker residue but the price sticker had fallen off.

Michel from hell said there were some example cards with english text on the back which were sold in Germany. I took him at his word.

Jason
 
mr_palitoy said:
kraftdermacht said:
I'm still waiting for pictures of used GM cards or GM cards from stores with English text on the back.
Jason, found any so far?

Wolfgang

I saw a link to one on ebay which was bought in the UK. It was worn and had price sticker residue but the price sticker had fallen off.

Michel from hell said there were some example cards with english text on the back which were sold in Germany. I took him at his word.

Jason

Likely there are some. Quite rare. I asked Michael for pictures.

Wolfgang
 

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