Resealed figure discovery debate - G.Kurtz Palitoy VC Jawa.

[Lee Bullock]

I am sorry but trying to tie the VC Palitoy Jawa to TT recards is ridiculous and speculating without the SLIGHTEST shred of evidence - even circumstantial evidence does not do anybody any good. Bare in mind I found Jason Smith's VC Jawa before he bought it and it has a Zodiac toys price sticker on it and can be traced back to a childhood collection. Can we please move on from red herrings about VC Jawas and deal with the issue at hand?

Lee,

It was purely an observation.Those other cardbacks could have been anything???

If someone had come forward 5 years ago and said that TT was making these himself-would that have been a red herring? There would have been uproar and utter disbelief,aswell as denial.People would have been defending Toni.

Ok,you may well have found Jasons 'opened' VCJ,but an opened example might not be enough for some people.

Sorry to derail the thread-hang on,it was about a Palitoy VCJ

I dont think ANYTHING is enough for some people...

 

[bobbybobs]

I agree with Grant. The police may be interested in this. They deal with lesser scale frauds all of the time. You never know what case will be taken on or rejected. It depends on so many different variables so there is no harm in giving it a go.

Regarding tax avoidance, it may be true that Toni is paying tax. But then again, Toni is not a reputable dealer (assuming he is guilty). Fraudsters though do not think like a reputable business men. Once fraud is committed, it is often a slippery slope towards other crimes. The police though could resolve this issue with a quick check with the tax office so it's not like they will need a huge taskforce to investigate tax avoidance.

I've made this point already but I'm not sure it has been really absorbed. It's okay if evidence is circumstantial, as long as there is loads of it. Massive cases have been prosecuted without a 'smoking gun'. So this is no reason not to pursue this case. For me the main point is whether those that have been ripped off (this includes me) want to expend the energy to organise the facts and approach the police.

Then again, Toni is reading all of our posts so maybe he is preparing his defence and has started covering up the paper trail.

Toni I can assure you that if the members of this forum decide to pursue this, there is a good chance that you will be prosecuted or at the very least you will dragged through the police and court systems. You will be publicly humiliated in front of your friends and family; whether you are guilty or not. If I was you, I would contact a respected member here and at least try to stop it getting to this. Open up some dialogue. If you are not guilty, you can at least clear your name.

 

[theslider]

Toni must actually be hardup after all this because for the first time ever today, checking his site, it now has video ads playing

With all that has been going on his site has probably increased traffic so he's just maximising his income perhaps?

Am at work at the moment and I can't access his site as it is blocked as it comes up as a proxy/anonomiser site - is that relevant?

Finally caught up with this thread - was up to date on Monday morning then it's shot ahead.

I know someone earlier on pulled up JJ on the Hoth troopers but I'm still a bit uneasy about them. JJ said he bought 500 of them and sold them all. There were quite a few with the upside down bubbles and some with (domestic) iron seals, the rest were presumably mint?

JJ also states that he bought 500 carded Fett's from Arthur and sold most (440) to a guy called Craig who them OPENED THEM ALL! I know collecting is different now to back in the late 80s early 90s, but why on gods earth would somebody do that UNLESS THEY KNEW THEY WERE AFTER POST FACTORY SEALS?!

So JJ bought 1000 carded figures from Arthur and many of them are known to be fakes. Therefore was Arthur resealing them? Could the really shoddy examples of reseals JJ took to FF4 be Arthur's early tests at resealing and they were included in the sale to TT.

I'm not having a go at JJ but these 500 Hoth Troopers and 500 Fetts doesn't sit right with me.

Why has no-one mentioned the Small Claims Court as a method of retribution - doesn't cost a lot to set up a claim (£25 I think). It might work...

 

[BadMotivator]

JJ also states that he bought 500 carded Fett's from Arthur and sold most (440) to a guy called Craig who them OPENED THEM ALL! I know collecting is different now to back in the late 80s early 90s, but why on gods earth would somebody do that UNLESS THEY KNEW THEY WERE AFTER POST FACTORY SEALS?!

JJ explained that the bloke wanted 440 Fetts for a Madalorian army.

 

[theslider]

JJ also states that he bought 500 carded Fett's from Arthur and sold most (440) to a guy called Craig who them OPENED THEM ALL! I know collecting is different now to back in the late 80s early 90s, but why on gods earth would somebody do that UNLESS THEY KNEW THEY WERE AFTER POST FACTORY SEALS?!

JJ explained that the bloke wanted 440 Fetts for a Madalorian army.

That is just insane whatever a madalorian army is.

 

[edd_jedi]

This was 25 years ago, they cost JJ 45p each back then! It was not 'insane' to open a toy in the 1980s.

 

[lee gray]

JJ also states that he bought 500 carded Fett's from Arthur and sold most (440) to a guy called Craig who them OPENED THEM ALL! I know collecting is different now to back in the late 80s early 90s, but why on gods earth would somebody do that UNLESS THEY KNEW THEY WERE AFTER POST FACTORY SEALS?!

JJ explained that the bloke wanted 440 Fetts for a Madalorian army.

I never said that, someones messed their quotes up lol

 

[spoons]

Hey...why is my lightsaber so small....ahem

Edd.....your points seem very measured.....but I don't think donating the contraband if it was voluntarily offered up to Sansweet is any sort of redress to those affected.

Darren

I got to admit that solution dumbfounded me

agreed

And how do we know what is fake? You could send legitimate Palitoy cards off - we still only have a list not a way of testing (but will try black light later). I think one of my cards is definitely sus, but would rather keep it and the ones I'm 60:40 on.

I think the biggest issues form this are the likes of Jason packing in collecting MOC - a great 21B run there

 

[theslider]

This was 25 years ago, they cost JJ 45p each back then! It was not 'insane' to open a toy in the 1980s.

He bought them for 45p each, he would've definitely sold them for more (albeit not much more, say 60p). Opening them shows an incredible lack of foresight on the part of the buyer especially given this thread and what we're discussing.

 

[Richard_H]

Opening my toys at Christmas and walking past all those vintage bargain bins shows an incredible lack of foresight...........

 

[paulcalf]

Back in the 70's and 80's I opened approx 100 carded Star Wars figures, it wasn't a lack of foresight, I was a child and enjoyed playing with them. The person who opened the Boba's probably enjoyed playing with his at the time, in hindsight he may be thinking **** i wish I had kept them on the cards........

If i'd kept all my figures on their cards and not played with them - I probably wouldn't like Star Wars now

He bought them for 45p each, he would've definitely sold them for more (albeit not much more, say 60p). Opening them shows an incredible lack of foresight on the part of the buyer especially given this thread and what we're discussing.

 

[jimbody1]

I'm not criticising but I'm surprised by Jim's defence of Toni, particularly after the Ben and Edd fiasco.

I'm genuinely still in the fence but it doesn't look good for Toni, but I can appreciate tha if you've bought a lot from him then you will want to believe the best

No offence here mate but im a big believer of innocent until proven guilty. Lets face it someone with a very dubious past comes on here posting claims they can't or at least are still to back up. If im wrong im more than happy to hold my hand up and apologize to anyone ive offended there's no ego here to bruise. I would however feel a right **** though.
I've said it before but I'll say it again show me proof, not hearsay, conjecture or theory but proof.

well while theres no conclusive proof the overwhelming amount of circumstantial evidence leads me to the conclusion that i was wrong!
so this is me being humble and holding my hand up to apologize, sorry everyone! :roll:

 

[TC-14]

Wow lots off evolution again in this thread, you have to keep reading daily to keep up with this.

I'd say hourly :shock:

 

[theslider]

Behave! I opened all my figures too, this is different though! I think it would be madness opening those figures but wouldn't be bothered if I knew they weren't factory sealed. I was 14 in 88 (if that was the date they were sold) what 14 year old lad was still playing with star wars figures then and have about 300 quid knocking around to buy them?

ANYWAY the focus should be on whether these certs are factory sealed or not.

 

[jedisearcher]

Anyone who thinks HMRC will let unpaid taxes go is also living in fantasy land
:lol:

Toni has been a proper dealer in all kinds of toys for decades, the likelihood of him not paying tax on any of this over the years is minute. Certainly no more likely than any other reputable dealer.

So you're quite sure that a guy who has defrauded a lot of people out of tens of thousands of pounds has all of his other affairs in order? You have a lot more faith than me.

That's the last I'll say on tax, we can't do anything about it now, and if/when the authorities get involved they'll cover all of the bases.

 

[Richard_H]

well while theres no conclusive proof the overwhelming amount of circumstantial evidence leads me to the conclusion that i was wrong!
so this is me being humble and holding my hand up to apologize, sorry everyone! :roll:

Good post. Says a lot in my eyes.
I still think there's at least one more twist in this though.

 

[jimbody1]

what would that be? :?

 

[Richard_H]

Too early to say but if you read some of the earlier posts something still does not add up.
I only spotted it as I was doing a detailed timeline but Josh beat me to it so I stopped.

 

[paulcalf]

I'm only mucking slider, don't put me on detention

Behave! I opened all my figures too, this is different though! I think it would be madness opening those figures but wouldn't be bothered if I knew they weren't factory sealed. I was 14 in 88 (if that was the date they were sold) what 14 year old lad was still playing with star wars figures then and have about 300 quid knocking around to buy them?

ANYWAY the focus should be on whether these certs are factory sealed or not.

 

[Captainsolo1978]

If the people who are selling the Toni Carded German figures on ebay.com for several hundred pounds are reading this - shame on you!

 

[JuniorChubb]

Sorry to derail the thread-hang on,it was about a Palitoy VCJ

:lol: :lol:

 

[lee gray]

I had years of fun looking at my figures I got from Toni, so no regrets there, still not sure what to believe but if he has been sealing them himself then hope he comes clean or defo 100 percent evidence comes to light to prove it and then I will be really disappointed in him, at the same time if proof comes that he didnt do it, that would be great, he really does need to address the whole situation in as much detail as possible, which is about two lines for him

If I was being accussed of mass star wars corruption and people were slagging me off and was innocent, i wouldnt sit back and let the mud get thicker and thicker.

 

[Richard_H]

Can I be the first to accuse you of mass food corruption? In particular those kebabs.

 

[lee gray]

Can I be the first to accuse you of mass food corruption? In particular those kebabs.

they were all legally made up in the shops though

 

[Joseph_Y]

I had years of fun looking at my figures I got from Toni, so no regrets there, still not sure what to believe but if he has been sealing them himself then hope he comes clean or defo 100 percent evidence comes to light to prove it and then I will be really disappointed in him, at the same time if proof comes that he didnt do it, that would be great, he really does need to address the whole situation in as much detail as possible, which is about two lines for him

If I was being accussed of mass star wars corruption and people were slagging me off and was innocent, i wouldnt sit back and let the mud get thicker and thicker.

(playing devils advocate here)
Maybe he's in such shock over a) the accusation itself and b) that people are taking JJ's word over his, that he just doesn't know what to say.

J

 

[_Lee_]

which is about two lines for him

Sounds like a good night out for me when i was newly divorced in 2003 I hope he is doing the Columbian variety J/K

 

[_Lee_]

which is about two lines for him

Sounds like a good night out for me when i was newly divorced in 2003 I hope he is doing the Columbian variety J/K

 

[jay4]

If I was being accussed of mass star wars corruption and people were slagging me off and was innocent, i wouldnt sit back and let the mud get thicker and thicker even if i had to call everyone ***** to get my point across.

& on the other hand theres the opposite type of person who knows they are innocent who thinks no im gonna sit back n watch, even njoi and let everyone make a cu*t of themselfs and when its really required and not before i will step in and clear the mud thrown at me once and for all and clear my name and make a few people look bad / silly whilst doing so .but in the mean any advertising of my name is good advertising & as long as i dont let it go too far alls good , just now business its still fine still pulling in money as per usual so let them blacken my name , let people here my name get it out there and when alls said and done and ive cleared my name more people will know of me and my wonderful goods :lol: and i should or will have more customers through this injustice ,
hahhha this probaly aint the case here wit TT but was just sayin

 

[kraftdermacht]

Collection of TT bubbles. To me it looks like the right (I bought in the early 2000s) were out of the "3 cartons of useful bubbles". None match bubbles I have on my original sealed GMs from Germany (perhaps have to few) but I still need to check my loose cards against them.

FX7 and IG88 are special size, show different sealing and have these little marks in the bubbles --> manufactured for special size figures?! I don't know the newer TT from mid 2000 to now. But as I've read the marks have been spotted one these more and more.
Chewie does look like the other figures in terms of sealing and bubble.

 

[lee gray]

if toytoni is buying u graded figures to stick onto cards then why is he selling u graded figures on his site http://zoomertoys.ueuo.com/GRADL.htm especially ones which are on the suggested list of what cards he is allegedly sealing as surely they would have been used for his mint cards ?