Except for VC Jawas on British cards its been well to quite recently.
No bans, tits....this is much needed for that post count. :lol:
No bans, tits....this is much needed for that post count. :lol:
Resealed figure discovery debate - G.Kurtz Palitoy VC Jawa.
- Thread starter Grant_C
- Start date
mr_palitoy
Sith Lord
Hothrebel said:
Sounds like some old time collectors were aware. Certainly not many new collectors are.
Toni's stuff is all case fresh and many have been AFA graded before he sells them or afterwards.
If AFA can't tell they were sealed in the 90's as opposed to the 80's, then they are indistinguishable from the real thing.
So what impact does that have?
:?:
Jason
JuniorChubb
Sith Lord
Maulster79 said:
We have got the banned thread for banning.
The Latest acquisitions for increasing your post count
And the links to RS threads for tits.
Do we really need this? I think I preferred the quiet...
JuniorChubb said:
So funny. :lol:
itfciain said:
thats cool he knows me and he knows i know what happened back then and he knows i was also trying to buy the stock from Arthur and i do have a printed out list that i got from Arthur , it was common nonage back then i agree.
they are mint cards and people has a choice of not having the figures on card or buying what Toni had , most felt that they were original figures and original cards and bubbles just they had been put on much latter and not by Palitoy ?
if Toni is on here i think he will agree that this is what happened back then i am not the only one and i know many dealers back then that know this also .
jason
i did have a little dig around in the only history file i have at the house and found this from a year 2000 copy of model mart
This was the first time ever a full set of Palitoy figures was put up for auction.
i thought it was the best way to offer everyone a chance to get what they wanted out of the set and to get the best price for my company , in these days you just sold things and they had a price this was something new back then.
none of this was on line you had to phone in or send a letter in with your bid , we had phone bids till 12 am and then the last offer was taken and if no one put another offer in fro 10 minuets then it was sold , the Luke and the Liea went on being bid on till 1 am if i remember it right. the old way of doing it
This was the first time ever a full set of Palitoy figures was put up for auction.
i thought it was the best way to offer everyone a chance to get what they wanted out of the set and to get the best price for my company , in these days you just sold things and they had a price this was something new back then.
none of this was on line you had to phone in or send a letter in with your bid , we had phone bids till 12 am and then the last offer was taken and if no one put another offer in fro 10 minuets then it was sold , the Luke and the Liea went on being bid on till 1 am if i remember it right. the old way of doing it
_Lee_
Sith Lord
- Joined
- May 7, 2008
- Messages
- 2,444
Maulster79 said:
Havent posted here in ages,but didnt want to turn away from this dig at me
Ok Grant,i know that was a dig at me.Yes,i go to shows run by Jason,but i go to further my collection and meet friends.I dont do it to line his pockets.Seriously,you are still beating the u-grade defending people horse??? such a shame you were not tough enough to meet up with Robbie at CE2.He did mention you done a good job of hiding.Robbie is a good friend of mine,and ill defend him as you defend people here.I defend him as that,a friend and not as a ugrader.
If this is Jason,ive seen your collection in the flesh.Can you remind me where it was on display again??? back in 2000 if i remember correcty (id like Jason/ace to answer that-i know where it was displayed) do have the original advertising poster somewhere.
Also,the Offworld stores you had donea great job in ripping people off.My mother came to you looking for an xmas present for me and either you,or one of those twats who worked for you sold her a sneak preview Mace Windu for about 10 tmes more than it was worth and told her it was limited to 500 worldwide.
There was also an article in a local paper where i live,which stated your store had been caught selling fake props-remember? There were numerous props,not onlySW either
Oh,and BTW im pretty confident that the cards theory is true.I have known of that for a long time,but kept quiet.Ive even heard rumours lately,that many,many Palitoy ROTJ figures were
made as recently as early 2000.So,this can of worms is now well and truly opened.I heard this from 2 reliable sources...
Brown nose sandperson??? WTF???
Grant,if you would like to pm me to discuss please feel free to.Im not looking for a verbal slanging match,just dont like being pointed at.
Hothrebel said:
hi there whats your real name mate ? maybe i remember you ?
there was the UK star wars fan club in the 1990s i still have all the names of the members back then and there was around 1000 of them that was it we used to promote that club everywhere for years and there was never more members than the 1000 star wars we niche , and it was a very small world back then , i think it was really only OFF WORLD my company that used to import much from the US back then , other traders used to just mostly sell UK toys , Jim used to sell off his upgrades and cast offs and there was a little bit from other traders bring bits in but we did used to turn over alot , Mark Woollard still works with me we own a company that has the rights for world wide official Star Trek conventions apart from North America called Destination Star Trek , we where the first official con to have all 5 captains , opps i am talking Trek sorry guys do not kill me , sorry i love all sic-fi , anyway yes Mark and i do still work together and are still best friends
, back then it was so much more of a hunt and the fun from hunting was great , and yes we had shops in Romford 1st Luton 2nd Dublin Ireland 3rd then last Chatham 4 Milton keynes 5 , we kept then going but the internet and ebay killed retail collators stores in the UK the rents here are so much and its hard to make them work , anyway hi jason
Palitoy78 said:
No worries Lee, PM sent.
Palitoy78 said:
hi Palitoy78 nice to meet you also
point one
well there was a display of my collection at the luton Museum where i displayed 200 items of my 500.000 it was opened by Gary Kurtz and we have over 65.000 fans go through it , i originally looked out 500 items not knowing how much space that really takes up so had to take most of it home
so i hope that helps proves that i am who i say i am , the links to my Facebook should also go toward that proof also .pont 2
my store was run by a manager like all my stores as i never worked in any of them , i was just busy looking after the company and left the day to day running with collectors that was into one of the subjects we retailed , in the case of Luton it would have been Jammie and his thing was transformers in a big way and that show had an amazing collation of transformers, as to your mothers perches of a sneak preview Mace Windu you clam she was charged 10 times the price ? thats a little odd , 1 do you think we would sell many if they were that over priced ? 2 when we has stock in the shop of new toys we had them in around 2 to 3 months before toys r us had them in so what was on sale was imported figures that came in 2 to 3 months before direct from our contact from Hong Kong called fred , yep he called himself fred
anyway these figures were expressed in from Hong Kong air mail and there is a premium cost to these figures we also used to sell these same figures at the NEC memroerbila fare and if you ever went there they you will remember our stand back in around 1999 2000 ish as it was the one with a 3 meatier sign above the stall saying cheapest new figures in the hall , and this pissed of many of the other traders but they could not complain or stop us as what we said on the banner was the truth we was the cheapest figures in the hall and at that time in most places , so you say 10 times more than it was worth , i am sorry that not true , it would have been £9.95 i remember our retail price when it did come out officially i think the retail price was £2.95 but us selling them 3 months before they were supposed to come out in the UK so that was a fair mark up , £2.95 cost of figure , shipping £2 from Hong Kong , import duty 75p alien figure license bought from government ( yes that another story and these dose not exist now days but back then this was for real ) £1.50 so my total cost was £7.20 and i sold this item for £9.95 and i then have to pay 15% Vat on the profit and retail price so it leaves us with around £1.30 a figure which if you want to know now was that was our margin we worked on all our imported new figures around £1.50 . hardly the rip off you clam it was now you know the numbers, i ran my shops for 10 years and they did well and employed 3 people full time in them so we must have had a lot of customers to have kept them going, but sorry you feel that way about this , i know lots of other people that really loved these shops and i loved running them . ho and your point about someone telling you that the figure was limited to 500 , i do not believe that was said , to produce a run of figures you need to produce a limited run of at least 20,000 to make that work that figure was being offered all across the US there was going to be 10,s of 1000s and the manager would know that and lying to a customer will only come back on us and we would lose a costumer so why do it we do not need to we sold 150 of ever new figure t our regulars so we really do not need to lie to your mum or any customer.pont 3
the story you refer to was about autographs not props , there may have been a slur about having props int he shop but it was about the autographs, the local news paper did not believe that what we had in the shop was real so they sent in a undercover reporter to go into the show and talk for over an hour to the manager and quizzed him about if that was a real Darth Mall autograph , they then wrote up a hatchet job playing us that the certificates where sighed off by the manager of the show ? i do not know who else they thought they were going to be signed off by ?, at the end of the day the autographs came from the events we ran and the guest we had at them , the news paper did not need much proof as they wrote it in such a way that it all but called the autographs fake , so there was no come back on them , at the end of the day we do not sell fakes , never have never will , all autographs are real and as such we put letters inauthenticity with then so anyone buying them thew the show had a paper chain, i was one of the board of director AFTEL when it started up , this group was created to inshore the authenticity and to protect collators , i was at the time a member of the UACC another group to protect collators i run Autographica the worlds biggest autograph show in the world and is respected all around the world by collectors and guest alike , these are the facts and again i have nothing to hid in any way on this matter.
point 4
most people that have been collating carded figures from the late 80s and 90s will have herd something i think ? i am the only person that had numbers and knew first hand what was sold etc, but many new this was the case.
As to your story of ROTJ Palitoy figures being made in around 2000 i find that very hard to believe and i will tell you why , 1 you would have to have lots of mint figures available to you to put into the packing, 2 then you would need to make the packaging and thats when you hit a wall my friend , thank god but we all evolve and as such we went from photographic to digital in the 90s and the process of printing change and as such if you look at anything under a microscope you will see the printing is not the same as it used to be in the 70s 80s or even early 90s so i think your story is just that a stories, i donut there is much truth in these remaking of carded figures in 2000 , if there was a big hall of mint figures in 2000 i think my company would have herd of it at that time as we was all over this stuff back then and we did not here anything like this.
you say you herd this from two 2 reliable sources... why not tell the names ? you call me out about the issue you had with my company and i have been fine responding to that it cool, so why not name names ? i think if you have names and more info on this you should just air it and get it out there an it can be cleared up,.
point 5
"Brown nose sandperson??? WTF???" yep amazing isn't it
now there is something to look for ;-)so it was good to air some points with you Palitoy78 i am sorry my shop did not please you back then , now that ebay has taken over the world i am shore you are much happier with the way you can by all your new figures and the prices you can get them for now days, but back then it was very different.
one last point i am glad you like the shows i run and if you really do not want to put any money in to my pockets then you should come to Colltormaina Milton Keynes as that show is completely free entry to the fans and i will not benefit in any way what so ever from you attending so enjoy.
jason
guys its good to chat , i have just closed a big guest for one of my events which needs my attention so if i disappear for a bit its not because i have run away its just i am busy and the replies on here do take me some time and they are detailed and i have to go back some time and remember it all so i will respond to every post as long as they are polite and try to help clear up any points that are asked ok
thank and its been good to meet a few more Star Wars fans out there
jason
its just i am busy and the replies on here do take me some time and they are detailed and i have to go back some time and remember it all so i will respond to every post as long as they are polite and try to help clear up any points that are asked ok thank and its been good to meet a few more Star Wars fans out there
jason
.
Caswellbot
Sith Lord
- Joined
- Jan 1, 2010
- Messages
- 3,072
Hi guys I would just like to chime in to say that as far as jasons point regarding toytoni putting mocs together from card backs and bubbles, it is something that I have heard. This is a story that was relayed to me quite a few years ago on the collecting circuit. It is a point that was raised to me by a dealer at Sandown but at the time I was unsure whether to believe him or not. For me, Jasons claim does stack up. I will try to put a little more meat on the bones when I am next with the person who told me.
Thanks, chris.
Thanks, chris.
mr_palitoy
Sith Lord
As this point, I'm going to invite toy toni to give his input on this thread. Watch this space!
My question about the impact of german/palitoy mocs that were assembled from original stock in the 90s rather than 80s and are indistinguishable to AFA still stands. What do you guys think the impact is?
Jason
My question about the impact of german/palitoy mocs that were assembled from original stock in the 90s rather than 80s and are indistinguishable to AFA still stands. What do you guys think the impact is?
Jason
escapist
Jedi Knight
- Joined
- Jan 8, 2013
- Messages
- 455
This is fascinating stuff and as a non-vintage-MOC collector, it is interesting to look at it from an outsider perspective.
If the AFA are grading these, then the question is, what impact would this ever have on values? Clearly the guy has been able to 'fake' something indistinguishable from the real thing using the same source material. In real terms, would it ever be possible to 'prove' this point, and as a result, call into question the integrity of the AFA.
To clarify, I have no feelings against the AFA, but if anyone was able to conclusively demonstrate difference between these 90's reseal/recard (not sure which!) it would certainly mean some grades would effectively be worthless!
And finally, whenever I see the name Toni all I can think of is:
'Paul, recarding a Star Wars figure is a lot like making love to a beautiful woman....'
If the AFA are grading these, then the question is, what impact would this ever have on values? Clearly the guy has been able to 'fake' something indistinguishable from the real thing using the same source material. In real terms, would it ever be possible to 'prove' this point, and as a result, call into question the integrity of the AFA.
To clarify, I have no feelings against the AFA, but if anyone was able to conclusively demonstrate difference between these 90's reseal/recard (not sure which!) it would certainly mean some grades would effectively be worthless!
And finally, whenever I see the name Toni all I can think of is:
'Paul, recarding a Star Wars figure is a lot like making love to a beautiful woman....'
mr_palitoy
Sith Lord
Have emailed toni:-
============================================
Hi Toni,
Jason Joiner has joined SWFUK in the last few days and is talking about the early collecting days.
One story he mentions is that the stock you are selling includes a lot of MOC that were assembled from original unused cardbacks, bubbles and mint figures in the 90s.
His post is here:-
http://www.starwarsforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=11326&start=180
He says this is/was common knowledge at the time.
This comes as news to many collectors (myself included) who have bought from you over the years.
I invite you to join the discussion and give your side of the story.
cheers Jason
============================================
Hi Toni,
Jason Joiner has joined SWFUK in the last few days and is talking about the early collecting days.
One story he mentions is that the stock you are selling includes a lot of MOC that were assembled from original unused cardbacks, bubbles and mint figures in the 90s.
His post is here:-
http://www.starwarsforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=11326&start=180
He says this is/was common knowledge at the time.
This comes as news to many collectors (myself included) who have bought from you over the years.
I invite you to join the discussion and give your side of the story.
cheers Jason
Mr-shifter
Sith Lord
escapist said:
I am watching this thread with great interest. I have some toytoni MOC's, and want to buy more. Im not entirely sure how I feel about this and would really appreciate Toni to come on and give his side of the story.
One thing that it would mean, is that if the AFA can be fooled by a (used) figure sealed to an unused card years after the event, the whole grading system is flawed, including the u-grading system. I know toni has sold u-grades on his website. If these are MOC's from his stock that he has sent in to have u-graded, the most likely scenario since he has large stocks of some figures, and if these MOC's are figures that have been brought as mint loose and resealed to an unused card back then there is no guarantee any u-grade figure is not effectively a re-seal. So the bullshit U on your AFA graded figure actually means **** all.
