PL 2018-2019 Thread

[weasel]

City scrappy result and scruffy goal, but 3 pints in the bag very tight now with them and Liverpool, will one of them blink first!

I don't think so. I've been saying for weeks, I don't see City dropping any points (said that pre the Spurs and Utd games) so what Pool do is academic. They (Pool) are gonna end up with a record high pts total for runner up. In fact, I think they already have. Ohh and I said that months ago too.

I mean this is honestly just pathetic, people call Spurs the bottlers but do any of these teams seriously deserve to be in the CL if this is the best they can do in the final weeks?

Yeap, none of the four sides fighting for/to avoid the CL spots deserve to qualify. All have been woeful over the last 3 weeks. Spuds get a slight by ball given they spent Fa, have a smaller budget and have CL distractions. The other three should be ashamed.

Genuine question for Utd fans (I don't think we have any Chelsea fans who read this, but if there are the same question goes to you) If I was to give you a blank cheque and a magic wand, and asked you transform that Utd squad into one that could challenge the top end CL sides (Real, Barca, Juve, dare I say Pool and City) how many of the current squad would you keep? Seriously. A squad that will push to win the CL, ignoring any issues about you can't really sign 15 players in one summer, or finances, or wages etc. How many of that current Utd squad would you keep? I suspect, if you're honest the answer is low single figures. Possibly only 1 or 2.
There's a few who would be fairly decent 'squad' players but as you have a blank cheque you can replace them.

Same goes for Chelsea. That team is literally Eden Hazard and 10 other blokes. Higuin was as bad as I have seen in the PL in a long long time, and I watched Andy Carroll try and play passing football for Liverpool. As for Kante, the best holding midfielder in the world, playing wide right.....

 

[edd_jedi]

Eden Hazard and 10 other blokes.

:lol: I think even Mr Palitoy might agree with you! It does seem Abramovich has given up on Chelsea, I can see them becoming a mid table/Championship side again unless he starts showing an interest.

Your United question is a good one and applies to all of those four clubs, they are simply not in the same league of quality as City or Liverpool. I would probably replace 3 or 4 of the regular Spurs starting 11, I honestly can't think of a single United or Arsenal player I would swap in to our current team, if not based on ability on attitude (Pogba.) The big teams (Barcelona, Real, City etc) have a real monopoly on the top tier players at the moment.

 

[theforceuk]

I would keep,

Rashford
Lingard
McTominay
De Gea
Smalling
Romero
Andreas Pereira
Martial
Sanchez
Luke Shaw

Happy to give reasons on any of them, as I'm sure many wont agree on some.

 

[weasel]

Your United question is a good one and applies to all of those four clubs, they are simply not in the same league of quality as City or Liverpool. I would probably replace 3 or 4 of the regular Spurs starting 11, I honestly can't think of a single United or Arsenal player I would swap in to our current team, if not based on ability on attitude (Pogba.) The big teams (Barcelona, Real, City etc) have a real monopoly on the top tier players at the moment.

Yeah, I think 3 or 4 is about right for Spurs, TBH they could have bought those 3 or 4 in the last two transfer windows and all would be fine. At the same time they don't need the major surgery Utd and Chelsea do, nor do they have as fine a collect of dead wood as the others.
Arsenal are a strange one, they need big investment, a lot of that team are shite/overpaid, but I suspect they will bumble on. Their forward line alone marks them out above Utd and Chelsea.

I would keep,

Rashford
Lingard
McTominay
De Gea
Smalling
Romero
Andreas Pereira
Martial
Sanchez
Luke Shaw

Happy to give reasons on any of them, as I'm sure many wont agree on some.

Interesting.

Rashford I get. Decent player, local boy etc
Lingard? Has always flattered to deceive for me. He isn't "young" either, 26. Mane and Firminio are 27 for comparison.
McTominay, has looked ok recently. Still not convinced he's anything more than the new Tom Cleverly but he does deserve a chance.
De Gea, is tricky. Previously the best keeper in the world, currently looking like Mingolet/Karius. I guess he has enough credit in the bank still. It's close though!
Smalling, Squad player. No more. Not a "bad" player, just not quite good enough. I'd sell, but no harm in keeping him for a year or two as new CB's settle in.
Romero, Supposedly the best back up keeper in world footy. Not seen enough of him to say.
Pereira, similar to McTominay, but not as good.
Martial, Hmmm. My Utd supporting mate loves him. He's too well, French for me. On his day he is amazing, but when it isn't his day he is abysmal and all you get it that Gallic shrug and a look to say "what do you want me to do!?" as he danders about the pitch aimlessly. As I don't think you can sort his head out, I'd flog him.
Sanchez, I assume that's a typo! He has been beyond shite for 18months at Utd. He was shite in his last 6-12 at Arsenal. Either way that's two years of shite. He is paying the price for his high intensity 1 man team thing with Arse and Chile, but he looks done. Similar to Rooney, too many games at too young an age. Plus Sanchez's wages are why DDG and Herera want huge increases. £400k a week and £75 appearance bonus to play THAT badly!? PLUS he plays in a spot where Utd didn't really need any reinforcing. Signed purely to spite City and sums up Utd's current transfer malaise.
Shaw, he's ok. Solid but unspectacular. Not the player you signed, and he looks two stone over weight, but I can see why you'd keep him.

Only other one I would consider keeping is Herera. Horrible little bastard that he is, that's exactly what Utd need in midfield. He aint worth 200k a week though, so unless he wises the **** up...

 

[theforceuk]

Your United question is a good one and applies to all of those four clubs, they are simply not in the same league of quality as City or Liverpool. I would probably replace 3 or 4 of the regular Spurs starting 11, I honestly can't think of a single United or Arsenal player I would swap in to our current team, if not based on ability on attitude (Pogba.) The big teams (Barcelona, Real, City etc) have a real monopoly on the top tier players at the moment.

Yeah, I think 3 or 4 is about right for Spurs, TBH they could have bought those 3 or 4 in the last two transfer windows and all would be fine. At the same time they don't need the major surgery Utd and Chelsea do, nor do they have as fine a collect of dead wood as the others.
Arsenal are a strange one, they need big investment, a lot of that team are shite/overpaid, but I suspect they will bumble on. Their forward line alone marks them out above Utd and Chelsea.

I would keep,

Rashford
Lingard
McTominay
De Gea
Smalling
Romero
Andreas Pereira
Martial
Sanchez
Luke Shaw

Happy to give reasons on any of them, as I'm sure many wont agree on some.

Interesting.

Rashford I get. Decent player, local boy etc
Lingard? Has always flattered to deceive for me. He isn't "young" either, 26. Mane and Firminio are 27 for comparison.
McTominay, has looked ok recently. Still not convinced he's anything more than the new Tom Cleverly but he does deserve a chance.
De Gea, is tricky. Previously the best keeper in the world, currently looking like Mingolet/Karius. I guess he has enough credit in the bank still. It's close though!
Smalling, Squad player. No more. Not a "bad" player, just not quite good enough. I'd sell, but no harm in keeping him for a year or two as new CB's settle in.
Romero, Supposedly the best back up keeper in world footy. Not seen enough of him to say.
Pereira, similar to McTominay, but not as good.
Martial, Hmmm. My Utd supporting mate loves him. He's too well, French for me. On his day he is amazing, but when it isn't his day he is abysmal and all you get it that Gallic shrug and a look to say "what do you want me to do!?" as he danders about the pitch aimlessly. As I don't think you can sort his head out, I'd flog him.
Sanchez, I assume that's a typo! He has been beyond shite for 18months at Utd. He was shite in his last 6-12 at Arsenal. Either way that's two years of shite. He is paying the price for his high intensity 1 man team thing with Arse and Chile, but he looks done. Similar to Rooney, too many games at too young an age. Plus Sanchez's wages are why DDG and Herera want huge increases. £400k a week and £75 appearance bonus to play THAT badly!? PLUS he plays in a spot where Utd didn't really need any reinforcing. Signed purely to spite City and sums up Utd's current transfer malaise.
Shaw, he's ok. Solid but unspectacular. Not the player you signed, and he looks two stone over weight, but I can see why you'd keep him.

Only other one I would consider keeping is Herera. Horrible little bastard that he is, that's exactly what Utd need in midfield. He aint worth 200k a week though, so unless he wises the **** up...

I have my doubts about all those players, some more than others. But realisticaly you don't need to get rid of everyone. A lot of those players I've listed are surely on their last chance, Sanchez you may be right about, but I don't think he's had a long enough run in the team to right him off yet.

Changing the subject completely I was looking at high points scoring seasons, Chelsea got 95 points in 04/05 and Man Utd got 91 in 99/00 and that was without anyone pushing them. For City and Liverpool they need to win the European Cup for me, what would you rather do get the points record or win the treble or even League and CL double? Does anyone really care that Man City won the league with 5 more points than Chelsea in 2005? Liverpool may very well do it and if they did, that would be a much bigger atchievement than City's 100 points.

 

[edd_jedi]

Last night was a bit of a rude awakening for Spurs. When you need a goal and the best you can do is bring on Foyth and Davies, you know you're in trouble. Even though he's out of favour I really think Janssen should have been on the bench. I know this sounds like a cop-out but it's really unfair for a team to have to play such an important game with so many key players either injured or unavailable, it's not just one or two, it's half our team. A lot to do in the second leg now.

 

[weasel]

Last night was a bit of a rude awakening for Spurs. When you need a goal and the best you can do is bring on Foyth and Davies, you know you're in trouble. Even though he's out of favour I really think Janssen should have been on the bench. I know this sounds like a cop-out but it's really unfair for a team to have to play such an important game with so many key players either injured or unavailable, it's not just one or two, it's half our team. A lot to do in the second leg now.

I saw all but the first 20 mins of the game, so obviously I missed the goal :roll:
I assumed Jansen was injured? Why was he not on the bench, especially given how few attacking options you have?
I think Spurs/Poch are paying the price now for Levy not spending any money in the last year. Even one decent squad option, ok that's £20m, could have made the difference. Ajax where good, and probably deserved to win from what I saw, but Spurs were clueless in the final third. Which isn't surprising given who was missing.
Son back for the second leg will help.

As far as spurs injuries go, Liverpool had to play their last 6-8 games of last season with 3 fit midfielders. The same boys who had run themselves into the ground all year. That's why when Salah got "Ramos-ed" in the final we had bring on Adam Lallana for his first game in 4 months, and boy did it show. He was utterly anonymous. At this stage of the season it's as much about 'finding a way'. I do suspect a full strength Spurs would have beaten Ajax quite comfortably, but then you never know.

I have my doubts about all those players, some more than others. But realisticaly you don't need to get rid of everyone. A lot of those players I've listed are surely on their last chance, Sanchez you may be right about, but I don't think he's had a long enough run in the team to right him off yet.<br abp="441"><br abp="442">Changing the subject completely I was looking at high points scoring seasons, Chelsea got 95 points in 04/05 and Man Utd got 91 in 99/00 and that was without anyone pushing them. For City and Liverpool they need to win the European Cup for me, what would you rather do get the points record or win the treble or even League and CL double? Does anyone really care that Man City won the league with 5 more points than Chelsea in 2005? Liverpool may very well do it and if they did, that would be a much bigger atchievement than City's 100 points.

I'll be honest, I have my doubts about ALL of those Utd players. I do think most need to go, but that can be done over 2 or 3 years. Assuming you have a manager with a vision and the ability and brains to carry it out. I'm (REALLY) not sure Solskjaer is that man.

As far as Liverpool's season goes, I was talking to a fellow Pool fan the other day and he laughed when I said I would win the CL than the PL. He, and a lot of Pool fans, seems more concerned with winning the PL to shut other clubs (cough Utd) fan's up. But, for me winning the CL is a bigger achievement. Yeah, ok you CAN win it without beating any one THAT good, but every year an English side wins the PL, ditto a Spanish side in La Liga, and Italian in Seria A, but only one team wins the CL. I think the kudos that brings you as well as the boost to the clubs profile is worth more in terms of attracting the best players and fans/sponsors and sadly that's what football is all about now.
I wouldn't be 'disappointed' if we won PL and not CL, obviously! But then if you had offered me second place in PL (without a record pts total) and another CL semi final at the start of the season I would have bitten your hand off. Anything more is just a bonus.

 

[edd_jedi]

I think Spurs/Poch are paying the price now for Levy not spending any money in the last year. Even one decent squad option, ok that's £20m, could have made the difference.

Possibly, but we have five strikers already. Sure Llorente and especially Moura had pretty poor games last night, but I'm not sure how any other club would fair with their two first choice strikers injured. City without Stirling and Aguero? If money is going to be spent I think our left/right backs are the most important to replace personally.

I also can't for the life of me figure out why Poch sold Dembele, I think he was way better than Wanyama, and again with Lamela injured other options are slim/non-existent.

 

[Snaketibe]

Son of course wasn't injured, but suspended, so thankfully he should be back for the second leg.

Jansen couldn't be played because he wasn't named in the Champion's League squad by the deadline, so that limited Poch to Llorente and.... well no-one else, since Moura isn't really a striker and Son and Kane were both unavailable.

I must say, as disappointing as the first half was, Spurs definitely improved in the second, even though their crossing into the box and finishing from headers were bloody awful! Once again they simply refused to move the ball forward quickly or pass the damn thing before being swarmed by opposition players, yet despite that they were the better team in the second half and Ajax definitely look vulnerable in the air.

I think Spurs still have a decent chance in the second leg, provided they play like they did against City in the second leg, showing that they really do want to win.

 

[edd_jedi]

It's certainly not an impossible task, in fact a few seasons ago Spurs used to play much better when they were losing so hopefully that happens again!

 

[weasel]

Possibly, but we have five strikers already. Sure Llorente and especially Moura had pretty poor games last night, but I'm not sure how any other club would fair with their two first choice strikers injured. City without Stirling and Aguero? If money is going to be spent I think our left/right backs are the most important to replace personally.

I also can't for the life of me figure out why Poch sold Dembele, I think he was way better than Wanyama, and again with Lamela injured other options are slim/non-existent.

I agree Llorente and Moura were poor. Llorente has never looked right at spurs, he needs crosses fired in, that's not spurs.
And as for how a team would do deprived of its two best strikers, Liverpool the summer after they sold Suarez and Sturridge remembered it was more fun being injured for 4 month stints.....

Ohh and I agree on selling Dembele. I assumed that was a case of someone offered Levy a price he thought was right. Chances are they would rather have flogged Wanyama but no one offered decent money for it. I wonder why lol.

Jansen couldn't be played because he wasn't named in the Champion's League squad by the deadline

Ahh, that would explain it. I should have thought of that.

 

[theforceuk]

Looks like Barcelona will take some stopping, Liverpool had chances to stay in the tie. Messi is on another planet though. :shock:

 

[edd_jedi]

I thought Liverpool were doing well and unlucky until Messi's free kick, then wow, it could have been 4 or 5 (and of course Liverpool could have scored a couple.) Going to be very tough to turn 3-0 around, makes Spurs 2nd leg look easy.

 

[weasel]

AAARRRSSSEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :twisted: :evil:

I don't think Liverpool deserved to lose that 3-0. They were the better side for huge chunks of the game but conspired to miss/**** up all their chances whereas Barca took theirs. Mane, Milner and Salah all should have done better. Yes, Barca missed two glorious 3 on 1's in the last 5 mins but that was more because Jurgen decided 2-2-6 was the way to go. Quite why you push up looking for a goal away to Barca with five minutes to go, I don't quite get. Yes, an away goal would have helped but Liverpool we so exposed at the back. 4 or 5-0 looked a lot more likely than 3-1.

For a side to turn up at the Nou Camp and have more possession than Barca and out pass them (more completed passed by about 450 to 410 I think) says it all. Not many sides will do that. Yet, Liverpool lost 3-0 and are all but out.
Teams will play worse against Barca and beat them/draw with them.

Your fella Messi isn't bad. The free kick was just unstoppable. No keeper in the world is getting that. I thought the first goal was superb as well. I'm not sure there is a huge amount a defending side could do. MAYBE Henderson/Gomes could have closed down a bit quicker, MAYBE VVD and Matip could have communicated a bit more, but realistically that was one you stand back and say "yeah, fair play, great goal."

Not sure picking Gomes worked. I see the logic, Jurgen wanted to keep it tight, and Gomes is more solid defensively than TAA, but it was his first start in 6 months and he offered nothing going forward. For the record, that is also the worst I have seen Robertson in an offensive sense. He was superb defensively, but his crosses either hit the first man or the second man. Once he realised this he stopped crossing and passed back in field. That added to Gomes and his none crossing on the other flank meant Liverpool's main source of final balls was gone. We were then left with the eye if a needle stuff. It actually reminded me of 'bad Arsenal' huge chunks of possession, camped in the other teams half, create very few real chances, then get done on the counter. Though there is no shame in getting done by Messi.

At 1-0 or 2-0 I thought Pool had a chance, but 3 is game over. They need 3 for ET and no way will that Barca team not get at least 1 clear cut opening if Pool are pushing forward. If it falls to Dembele it may not be an issue. I'm not sure I can see Barca throwing way a 3-0 lead two years in a row either.

Just absolutely gutted to have gone to Barcelona and out played them for huge chunks of the game and come away with a score line that makes it look like a hiding. It sure as **** was not.

Ohh and whilst I never had any doubts about what thoroughly nice chap Louis Suarez is, I now see what people mean when they say Barca dive a lot. I was getting quite pissed off with the number of times they went down under minimal contact and then half the team surrounded the ref (the Milner barge on Messi aside). They reminded me of PSG in that respect. But, I thought the ref did fine, definitely no blame on him for the defeat.

Messi 600 goals in 14 years (to the day) scary scary good.
That's an average of 42 a season. :shock:

 

[edd_jedi]

There's nothing worse in football than losing a game you think you should have won. It's a bit of an unfair game in that respect, you can't fluke a round of golf or a basketball match, but it's very easy to play football badly and nick one (or 3) goals.

 

[weasel]

True, but it is swings and roundabouts. I wasnt complaining in 05 when Pool robbed AC. Just gotta pray for another miracle.

 

[theforceuk]

I don't think Liverpool were robbed in any way, Barcelona took their chances and Liverpool didn't, if you won football matches by how many passes you completed it would be a funny game! I think Liverpool have only got themselves to blame and Barcelona had that extra bit of quality when needed. Barcelona were more direct when they had the ball and Liverpool did a great job of pressing high, Messi was the difference for me.

Klopp is a great manager and he will be remembered for a long time at Liverpool even if he doesn't put a trophy in the cabenet, which I can't see, only a matter of time.

 

[weasel]

Now, I didn't say "robbed" :wink:

I did say "They (Liverpool) were the better side for huge chunks of the game but conspired to miss/**** up all their chances whereas Barca took theirs".

I wasn't implying Pool deserved to win based on passes or possession, more using those stats to back up my claim/belief that Pool played quite well and sure as feck weren't as bad as a 3-0 score line would suggest. Not many teams will have more possession and out pass Barca at the Nou Camp. I do agree that fella Messi was the difference. Take him out of the game and it's a totally different story. BUT, he played and Barca won 3-0 and it is all but game over.

It just wasn't a 3-0 game, if you watched the entire match. Apart from the last 5-10 mins, as I said initially, by that stage Pool were forced into suicidal attacking.

 

[theforceuk]

I suppose 2-1 would have been a fair result, Barcelona's first and last goals were class the second was fortunate but a great move. Liverpool can't have any complaints at being 3-0 down though. I watched the game and was suprised how direct Barca were when they got the ball. I thought Barca edged the first half and Liverpool were the better team by far for first 30 minutes of the second half, but once they got the second it could have been 4 or 5 - 0.

I'm not righting Liverpool off yet, they could still turn it around, although I do feel Barca will score at Anfield.

 

[edd_jedi]

Speechless. Yes Spurs were ****, yes Son and Foyth were both idiots, but SURELY any competent ref should have applied a bit of discretion. How can you give a player a straight red 2 minutes after he's come on when the team is already down to 10 men? I've never seen anything like it. I harp on about Spurs being unlucky a lot but come on, that takes the piss. Without Kane and Son we're now pretty much ****ed against Everton next weekend.