mr_palitoy
Sith Lord
I've already suggested they contact Laurence as the local go to guy with lots of info about the factory etc.
Cheers Jason
Cheers Jason
Palitoy landfill
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laurencedyer
Jedi Knight
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Ok, Ok, seeing as my name keeps being mentioned and this topic has some new invigorated energy I will admit that this comment was actually a red herring back at the time. :lol:
The information is true, the disposal locations, Mainland Trains being disposed of at Mountsorrel.
There is some debate over the Lount location imo.
There is the current Lount refuse location, no doubt about that. However, during my research I was under the understanding that the landfill that Palitoy used for the disposal of the goods was near to the location of where the M42 is now built. This information came to me from several Former Palitoy sources. Bob Brechin also stated that it was at the location of the Moto service station during an interview back in 2015, I believe that it was published in the Leicester Mercury and possibly the Daily Mail back at the time. Spoons (Andrew) and I had a brief hat about this comment at the time and he told me that Bob had said that location for a bit of fun and a red herring.
The M42 area has been mentioned several times from people with the knowledge back in the day, so was Bobs comment to Spoons a red herring itself as mine where above?
The Demontfot University in Leicester had been conducting some research with Palitoy back in 2016 and had been liaising with Bob. I am unsure the whole content of the research but I was aware that they were keeping a former Palitoy employee log and they also had planned to try and do a Time Team style excavation. Maybe that is why Bob made the comment to Spoons, I can only speculate.
The relevance of all of this is due to there being numerous areas of interest which I will add to shortly.
Palitoy is known to be from Coalville as every carded figure, shipping label and so on tells you.
This is true in terms of where the items were in the main packaged. However the factory in Coalville was a production machine with large deliveries daily from the Far East and from UK suppliers such as Aldridge Plastics etc.
It came in one end, got assembled and went out the other end in phenomenal quantities.
It was then stored until the orders came in for picking and distribution but this was not at Coalville.
Palitoy had multiple warehouses in Leicestershire which included the two images below and they also used warehouses at the Bruntingthorpe Aerodrome.
The majority of the toys during the era of the topic in question went to Ashby due to it's 5 Million cubic foot capacity which was large enough for 15,500 pallets of stock to be stored.
As big as the warehouse may be, Palitoy would manage their stock like any company with slick practices and they would write off old stock and dump them, which was at the nearest location hence Lount having being utilised.
The stock produced on a daily basis would enter the six large loading doors at the rear. Items such as Speeder Bikes and Mini Rigs may also have come from the Far East directly, at this point in time that is just speculation until I have some firm accounts of this being correct.
It then was stored in the 42 foot high racking before being picked as orders came in.
You can see the scale of the warehouse in the following images.
At the time of the build Palitoy stated the following regards the warehouse.
To our knowledge the warehouse is the largest narrow aisle racking installation in the U.K. using 'Maestro' free aisle trucks. The feasibility of this system has been justified by the greatly reduced unit cost of the storage cube. Working from a 5 ft aisle, immediate access is available to any one of 13,500 pallet loads stored in the 80,000 sq.ft. high-rise section of the warehouse. Each of the pallet loads is 4 ft. square and 5 ft. high and contains an average of 30 cartons of goods.
This image is of the service bay for the Maestro aisle trucks.
Then once the orders came in they were picked and entered the distribution section for labelling up and shipping.
The distribution area had eight loading bays.
This was also were all of the Coalville addressed shipping labels were applied to the trade cartons.
A long time established collecting friend who lived in Leicester in the following years of the closure told me a couple of things.
He either knew someone or came across someone who used to work at the distribution warehouse. He was told that at the demise of Star Wars line that lorry loads would be filled and then tipped at Lount. This he confirms happened as his brother apparently worked at the tip and confirmed it happening the other end.
The relevance of all of this is that I am in no doubt that Palitoy dumped overage stock at Lount, this myth is not one that needs to be proven as it is true.
The location of the site is a different matter. Was it always where it currently is or was it previously at a different location?
Which leads me to another topic of the Farmers Field myth.
laurencedyer said:You lot are off your tits!
It must take someone deluded to pursue the "Farmers Field Myth".
Palitoy used two main landfills, Coalville that they literally filled full of plastic and cardboard from the packaging factory and Lount tip which is half a mile from the Finished Goods warehouse where they would dispose of end of line products.
Lount tip is where people would scale the fence and help themselves to perfectly good packaged toys just sitting there on the waste pile. However the old Lount Landfill site now has the M42 built across it, where the road has slightly sunk. The current Lount location is simply a recycling centre as all tips are in this day and age.
The only hole that I have discovered that was dug and filled is in Mountsorrel, this was dug and filled with Mainline trains. The Tax inspectors witnessed them being dumped in and then crushed by a digger before being in filled for write off purposes.
The information is true, the disposal locations, Mainland Trains being disposed of at Mountsorrel.
There is some debate over the Lount location imo.
There is the current Lount refuse location, no doubt about that. However, during my research I was under the understanding that the landfill that Palitoy used for the disposal of the goods was near to the location of where the M42 is now built. This information came to me from several Former Palitoy sources. Bob Brechin also stated that it was at the location of the Moto service station during an interview back in 2015, I believe that it was published in the Leicester Mercury and possibly the Daily Mail back at the time. Spoons (Andrew) and I had a brief hat about this comment at the time and he told me that Bob had said that location for a bit of fun and a red herring.
The M42 area has been mentioned several times from people with the knowledge back in the day, so was Bobs comment to Spoons a red herring itself as mine where above?
The Demontfot University in Leicester had been conducting some research with Palitoy back in 2016 and had been liaising with Bob. I am unsure the whole content of the research but I was aware that they were keeping a former Palitoy employee log and they also had planned to try and do a Time Team style excavation. Maybe that is why Bob made the comment to Spoons, I can only speculate.
The relevance of all of this is due to there being numerous areas of interest which I will add to shortly.
Palitoy is known to be from Coalville as every carded figure, shipping label and so on tells you.
This is true in terms of where the items were in the main packaged. However the factory in Coalville was a production machine with large deliveries daily from the Far East and from UK suppliers such as Aldridge Plastics etc.
It came in one end, got assembled and went out the other end in phenomenal quantities.
It was then stored until the orders came in for picking and distribution but this was not at Coalville.
Palitoy had multiple warehouses in Leicestershire which included the two images below and they also used warehouses at the Bruntingthorpe Aerodrome.
The majority of the toys during the era of the topic in question went to Ashby due to it's 5 Million cubic foot capacity which was large enough for 15,500 pallets of stock to be stored.
As big as the warehouse may be, Palitoy would manage their stock like any company with slick practices and they would write off old stock and dump them, which was at the nearest location hence Lount having being utilised.
The stock produced on a daily basis would enter the six large loading doors at the rear. Items such as Speeder Bikes and Mini Rigs may also have come from the Far East directly, at this point in time that is just speculation until I have some firm accounts of this being correct.
It then was stored in the 42 foot high racking before being picked as orders came in.
You can see the scale of the warehouse in the following images.
At the time of the build Palitoy stated the following regards the warehouse.
To our knowledge the warehouse is the largest narrow aisle racking installation in the U.K. using 'Maestro' free aisle trucks. The feasibility of this system has been justified by the greatly reduced unit cost of the storage cube. Working from a 5 ft aisle, immediate access is available to any one of 13,500 pallet loads stored in the 80,000 sq.ft. high-rise section of the warehouse. Each of the pallet loads is 4 ft. square and 5 ft. high and contains an average of 30 cartons of goods.
This image is of the service bay for the Maestro aisle trucks.
Then once the orders came in they were picked and entered the distribution section for labelling up and shipping.
The distribution area had eight loading bays.
This was also were all of the Coalville addressed shipping labels were applied to the trade cartons.
A long time established collecting friend who lived in Leicester in the following years of the closure told me a couple of things.
He either knew someone or came across someone who used to work at the distribution warehouse. He was told that at the demise of Star Wars line that lorry loads would be filled and then tipped at Lount. This he confirms happened as his brother apparently worked at the tip and confirmed it happening the other end.
The relevance of all of this is that I am in no doubt that Palitoy dumped overage stock at Lount, this myth is not one that needs to be proven as it is true.
The location of the site is a different matter. Was it always where it currently is or was it previously at a different location?
Which leads me to another topic of the Farmers Field myth.
laurencedyer
Jedi Knight
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As I said before, I am in no doubt that the practice of dumping toy's into pits as such was common practice back in the days before the destruction of the Ozone Layer was discovered. It was common practice with commercial and domestic waste throughout the UK until the The Kyoto Protocol entered into force 1n 2005.
So whatever can be unearthed in what pit or dumping ground is the challenge.
When I started collecting six years or so ago the Lount Landfill was not the topic of discussion, Possibly not even really known of either to the collecting community. The Lount landfill has gained strength as the rise of social media also has aided with the interviews of Bob Brechin. I have seen this across most formats of social media whilst also observing an odd additional comment here and there which get overlooked. These comments are regarding the Farmers Field by collectors local to the Lount area.
The Farmers Field myth was the original topic of conversation from the longer time established collectors.
The long time collecting friend from Leicester told me the story he had been told from a Leicester Market Trader.
The trader said that a Farmer disposed of a large quantity of carded Star Wars stock in a hole in his field.
Apparently some of the local kids would pick up the figures, rip them off of the cards and pull the heads to then use the heads as catapult ammunition.
As I mentioned, it was only three years ago that the identification of Lount being a potential target for excavation was not was not even a topic, just the Farmers Field.
The reason for the red herring post a few years ago was due to me signing a Contributor Contract with a film company as I had targeted a couple of locations that I believed Palitoy used for the disposal / dumping of the Star Wars line. This contract was for a two year period which has now expired.
The purpose of the contract was due to the film production company presenting my research and concept of a documentary to Channel 4.
C4 were extremely interested in the concept but the authorisation to produce the documentary required harder evidence that something may lay at one of the locations.
I was setting up a self funded survey using a ground penetrating radar which required the consent of the land owner. The following was the response I received.
Unfortunately life circumstances changed in several ways shortly after the denial for access which along with several other Palitoy based projects has sat this to one side. One of those projects has recently been completed and I guess this one could be reinvigorated again.
From numerous sources this is the location of the dumping ground from the Farmers Field Myth.
This is also a field that was owned by a Farmer that my research identified.
Notice the heavy build up to the right hand side. This of course could have been due to anything such as building rubble for instance.
The second image demonstrates the uneven level of the land as you can see from the fence to the bottom of the field. This could be for any reason including natural flow of the land of course.
Lount does have Vintage Star Wars items that I am positive of. What the location was is the relevant question. A question I am sure will be easy to find out, but a question that has never appealed to me to find the answers.
The Farmers Field though. That's a whole different question.
Either way, I must be crackers!!!
Firstly for spending unknown amounts of time chasing this up in the first place several years ago and secondly for making this all public.
At least it will make a talking point I guess.
So whatever can be unearthed in what pit or dumping ground is the challenge.
When I started collecting six years or so ago the Lount Landfill was not the topic of discussion, Possibly not even really known of either to the collecting community. The Lount landfill has gained strength as the rise of social media also has aided with the interviews of Bob Brechin. I have seen this across most formats of social media whilst also observing an odd additional comment here and there which get overlooked. These comments are regarding the Farmers Field by collectors local to the Lount area.
The Farmers Field myth was the original topic of conversation from the longer time established collectors.
The long time collecting friend from Leicester told me the story he had been told from a Leicester Market Trader.
The trader said that a Farmer disposed of a large quantity of carded Star Wars stock in a hole in his field.
Apparently some of the local kids would pick up the figures, rip them off of the cards and pull the heads to then use the heads as catapult ammunition.
As I mentioned, it was only three years ago that the identification of Lount being a potential target for excavation was not was not even a topic, just the Farmers Field.
The reason for the red herring post a few years ago was due to me signing a Contributor Contract with a film company as I had targeted a couple of locations that I believed Palitoy used for the disposal / dumping of the Star Wars line. This contract was for a two year period which has now expired.
The purpose of the contract was due to the film production company presenting my research and concept of a documentary to Channel 4.
C4 were extremely interested in the concept but the authorisation to produce the documentary required harder evidence that something may lay at one of the locations.
I was setting up a self funded survey using a ground penetrating radar which required the consent of the land owner. The following was the response I received.
Unfortunately life circumstances changed in several ways shortly after the denial for access which along with several other Palitoy based projects has sat this to one side. One of those projects has recently been completed and I guess this one could be reinvigorated again.
From numerous sources this is the location of the dumping ground from the Farmers Field Myth.
This is also a field that was owned by a Farmer that my research identified.
Notice the heavy build up to the right hand side. This of course could have been due to anything such as building rubble for instance.
The second image demonstrates the uneven level of the land as you can see from the fence to the bottom of the field. This could be for any reason including natural flow of the land of course.
Lount does have Vintage Star Wars items that I am positive of. What the location was is the relevant question. A question I am sure will be easy to find out, but a question that has never appealed to me to find the answers.
The Farmers Field though. That's a whole different question.
Either way, I must be crackers!!!
Firstly for spending unknown amounts of time chasing this up in the first place several years ago and secondly for making this all public.
At least it will make a talking point I guess.
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- 639
I must admit I have found all of this addictive right from the start, time to call in Phil Harding, although degraded over time, it would be so interesting to maybe, one day, see what was under the ground, if any of it still survives.
phreatobite
Jedi Master
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- Aug 27, 2009
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It's exciting to think there might be tonnes of stuff just under the ground somewhere (I definitely think there is).. the questions being where, how far down and how badly degraded would it be?
If (when!) it is found, I see it not just being great for current collectors but reinvigorating the whole hobby.
If (when!) it is found, I see it not just being great for current collectors but reinvigorating the whole hobby.
mr_palitoy
Sith Lord
Reposted from Facebook:-
Adrian Patrick shared a link to the group: Star Wars Palitoy Collector.
21 hrs ·
The BBC 'One Show' just featured this programme excavating landfills from the 1980s - showing how well even paper and cardboard is preserved...
#CoalvilleFactory #LandFill — in Coalville, Leicester.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0bgpc2f
Adrian Patrick shared a link to the group: Star Wars Palitoy Collector.
21 hrs ·
The BBC 'One Show' just featured this programme excavating landfills from the 1980s - showing how well even paper and cardboard is preserved...
#CoalvilleFactory #LandFill — in Coalville, Leicester.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0bgpc2f
spoons
Grand Master
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Looking at Laurence's photos a colleague and I are pretty sure we know where one of the fields is, which is an infilled open cast quarry, and unfortunatley HS2 is due to run straight through it. The ridge of material is just upcast from that ditch Laurence. If we're right the quarry is pretty much the whole field so has been levelled off.
As it is a big area its better suited to boreholes rather than GPR, but is likely to be deep.
The farmer's field is tougher to pinpoint but I assume would be the better one to target, being smaller and presumably not about to be dug up to build a railway - unless it is also east of the M42?
The clock is ticking!
As it is a big area its better suited to boreholes rather than GPR, but is likely to be deep.
The farmer's field is tougher to pinpoint but I assume would be the better one to target, being smaller and presumably not about to be dug up to build a railway - unless it is also east of the M42?
The clock is ticking!
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HS2! You can't make this up. :lol: Can't wait to watch the documentary.
Dannywhiteley
Jedi Master
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Company I work for are doing prelim work on HS2 now. I'll ask the geotechnical guys to keep an eye out for vintage in their boreholes.
mattholt76
Youngling
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Hi Everyone,
Excuse not replying on here, I'm not really used to forums, more a twitter & email person.
It was great to interview Jason (Mr Palitoy). I've sent Laurence my email as it would be great to get his experience with the myth so far, including
the previous attempt at making a film.
Obviously, I can't guarantee we will find anything at the end of this film, or if it will even end up on TV. Worse case scenario is that it will end
up online and act as a record of where we are now with the Palitoy Star Wars legacy as these places aren't going t be around forever, especially
in the light of the HS2 news.
We have 4 interviews in the can so it's going well in such a short space of time... I've just spent 3 years on a 70 minute film based in Leicester & New York so I know these things
take time when you're also stopping for paid work. Good start though & thanks for all the info and encouragement.
Matt
Excuse not replying on here, I'm not really used to forums, more a twitter & email person.
It was great to interview Jason (Mr Palitoy). I've sent Laurence my email as it would be great to get his experience with the myth so far, including
the previous attempt at making a film.
Obviously, I can't guarantee we will find anything at the end of this film, or if it will even end up on TV. Worse case scenario is that it will end
up online and act as a record of where we are now with the Palitoy Star Wars legacy as these places aren't going t be around forever, especially
in the light of the HS2 news.
We have 4 interviews in the can so it's going well in such a short space of time... I've just spent 3 years on a 70 minute film based in Leicester & New York so I know these things
take time when you're also stopping for paid work. Good start though & thanks for all the info and encouragement.
Matt
mr_palitoy
Sith Lord
Landfill shenanigans with Bob Brechin and May the Toys be With You's Matt Fox:-
https://www.facebook.com/maythetoysbewithyou/videos/480755349002805/
Jason
https://www.facebook.com/maythetoysbewithyou/videos/480755349002805/
Jason
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Exciting stuff, hope it all comes together!
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There's a documentary on BBC4 about landfill. They haven't found any MOCs yet tho. There are actual waste scientists who do this for a living. Surely they would know how to locate the site?
Bonsai_Tree_Ent
Jedi Master
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I'm just watching it too "The Secret Life Of Landfill" on BBC4 (I suspect it will also be on iPlayer). They have dug up an 80s landfill from 1986 - pretty much the exact same year we are talking about with the Palitoy pit.
Hardly any of the rubbish has degraded at all, because it hasnt been exposed to air or sunlight, just suffered crush damage. They pulled a newspaper out of the landfill and it was still readable. You could turn the pages. A glossy MOC card is far sturdier and robust than a thin cheap newspaper... this evidence really makes me think that if the location could be pin pointed that the contents would be in far better condition than I had previously thought. I knew the plastic objects would be fine (figures, vehicles, etc), but this documentary shows that likely the cardboard, the blisters, even the instructions, sticker sheets, etc would likely still be in decent shape.
Hardly any of the rubbish has degraded at all, because it hasnt been exposed to air or sunlight, just suffered crush damage. They pulled a newspaper out of the landfill and it was still readable. You could turn the pages. A glossy MOC card is far sturdier and robust than a thin cheap newspaper... this evidence really makes me think that if the location could be pin pointed that the contents would be in far better condition than I had previously thought. I knew the plastic objects would be fine (figures, vehicles, etc), but this documentary shows that likely the cardboard, the blisters, even the instructions, sticker sheets, etc would likely still be in decent shape.
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This was a fascinating program when warching it with the Palitoy land fill subject in mind.
As thought, the plastic elements will not have suffered at all, but this showed that even paper can survive in the airless state of a land fill.
Would the Palitoy site not give off methane?
Could this be used to trace its whereabouts?
As thought, the plastic elements will not have suffered at all, but this showed that even paper can survive in the airless state of a land fill.
Would the Palitoy site not give off methane?
Could this be used to trace its whereabouts?
Dannywhiteley
Jedi Master
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I think any 2d paper/card items should be ok, also any plastic toys won't degrade in 30 years. Boxed/ carded items will just be heavily warped, crushed, misshapen etc.
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What a great programme, if the site can be located I've a feeling there's a ton of stuff waiting to be discovered. The newspaper that was dug up was in great condition and the clothes hadn't degraded at all. Amazing coincidence, It's a sign. Very excited!! :shock:
Attachments
TK-7785
Jedi Master
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I would think if the amounts of stock were large enough and they were dumped in boxes/containers, there's every chance that much of the cardbacks and boxes have survived in a reasonable state. Probably not AFA 95s but good enough for most of us. Especially if they were buried deep enough and the water table was well away from them. Certainly most of the figures and accessories would clean up perfectly.
I'm ready and willing to turn up with my shovel and lend a hand!
I'm ready and willing to turn up with my shovel and lend a hand!
spoons
Grand Master
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Mini99 said:
If someone would be prepared to say where the 'farmers field' was meant to be we may be able to find the pit through lidar survey in a few minutes from a pc
If there is no lidar data a magnetometer survey of the field would take a day or so assuming the landowner gave permission.
Got willing people and kit ready to do the work if only everyone wasn't so secretive
Once the pit is located my biggest concern would be what else has been dumped - if it's just toys great, if it's industrial waste the toys may be better left where they are, but boreholes would tell you if there are any nasties down there.
Boreholes would be the first expense in the project (up to £10k) and crowdfunding may come in to play then.
Then it's just the digging
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