New seller with large collection needing assistance

[silver grin]

mystery solved. I messaged the seller of the tri-logo Jawa on ebay and asked him if he knew Shane O'Keefe as he had recently come onto a SW forum saying he knew nothing about SW and now we see it on ebay for sale.

This is the sellers reply:

Right i see, i was introduced to him through a friend of mine who knows i'm a keen SW collector. The guy wanted some opinions and advice on valutions and i was watchful of the fact that he'd already been offered some pretty low figures for the Jawa, £30 etc by people trying to 'help' him on the forum (which i don't go on).
Quite simply, i know the Jawa is an incredibly rare Tri Logo as i've been collecting Tri's for nigh on 10-12 years. I offered to sell the item for him given that his knowledge of SW is pretty much non existent in exchange for 10% commission. I compliled an ad last night in a bid to get him the best price, i had to use some artistic license but i've got no problem with doing that, i'm a straight shooter and the piece is what it is.
Perhaps you can pass this on to any interested parties by way of the forum.
Regards.

- retrochrome

 

[Joe]

Right cards on the table because this has ticked me off a little and will be the last time I try to offer any help to newbies coming on here as they prove time and time again to be unreliable.

Last two Jawa backers I tracked sold for - 32 + 50 quid (I think Lee bought the last one on ebay) - I don't really care what anyone says, that's decent money for a piece of cardboard.

I said I would offer at LEAST that for the cardback alone and more for the figure + cardback if he wanted to think about it and get back to me. I expected to get at least one counter offer..which I could have said yes or no to but I didn't and he said he might sell as a lot and not individually and I left it at that.

I told him which of his figures were rare, I gave him link after link of completed listings for loose figures, figures with cardbacks, told him to set up paypal to make payments easier, explained him the best way to post things.. I even sent him the RS price guide that an RS member has put together based on past ebay sales. Is that not considered help by this retrochrome dude?

Instead of dealing with collectors who offer help he is obviously happier dealing with a "friend" who wants 10% commission from his sales..awesome.

 

[Dark Sith Lord]

He also mentioned a "price list". Has anyone recieved one yet? Liam

 

[Capetown]

That's pretty bad form from the seller Joe.

Shane, do you have something to say for yourself?

 

[Joe]

That's pretty bad form from the seller Joe.

Shane, do you have something to say for yourself?

I understand the guy wants more, but he could have just told me..

Maybe I should send him a paypal invoice for 10% of his ebay sales because I spent time helping him the other night.. :roll:

 

[Caswellbot]

Thats pretty ballsucktastic in my opinion dude!

 

[SOKeeffe]

I can see some peoples noses are outa joint.

At the end of the day I just have a collection that I wanna sell.

Yesterday afternoon i posted the pictures and my mailbox filled up with enquiries,

I hadn't a clue what i had or how much the stuff was worth yet I had loads of offers on stuff i hadn't yet valued,

Anyways, Like the post says, late last night when compiling a price list i had some assistance from someone who said the jawa was probably the best piece and that i should probably test the waters on ebay and see what happens.

so i decided I would....Simple as that, and to be honest at midnight last night I wasn't going to go replying to everyone who emailed me yesterday afternoon who was interested in the Jawa ( and there was a lot of interest and offers )

so again, Joe and others who I may have put out i apologize but hopefully you understand that there was nothing underhanded about anything......

 

[BespinFatigues]

I've just registered on here solely to clarify a few points as the Ebay seller of this piece, first and foremost there was absolutely no hint whatsoever of Shane being ungrateful for the help and advise he'd been given thus far, far from it - my understanding is he sought the advise in order to be better equip himself to sell the pieces for the going rate.

@ Joe i don't think i insinuated anyone in my Ebay reply when i broached the subject of 'pretty low offers' but if £30 was your offer (and i'm not party to who offered what) then i think you low-balled him. How did you expect the seller to come back with a counter offer if he doesn't know the market? Your argument about it being decent money for a piece of cardboard is to be blunt, just ridiculous. How much would you pay for a Ledy Boba Fett backer?

Regardless, Shane hadn't turned down anyones offer - it was MY opinion that he should turn down the offers because in short, i think it's worth more. Yes i offered to sell it for him, why? Because i have a reasonable sales count on Ebay and 100% feedback where he doesn't...and a little more knowledge than him to be able to compose an ad. I've been in countless situations before where i've helped people out with valuations for no return and by return i mean a simple thanks so tbh i made it quite clear to Shane my times got to be worth something and thought 10% of the Jawa was pretty fair bearing in mind we've helped to price everything else up aswell. Shanes happy with that so i don't see there's been any bad form on his behalf.

You people sure you're not just pissed because you didn't get a piece you wanted?

 

[Capetown]

I followed you until the last sentence, which is a bit trollish and uncalled for don't you think?

 

[BespinFatigues]

Not really, i've collected long enough to see when the blinkers come down peoples ideas of what is and isn't acceptable can go out the window in order to accomplish what they want out of a deal.

It strikes me people offered what they thought would be an enticing figure to someone who was unaware of the true value. I think despite everyone seemingly wanting a good deal these days (nothing wrong with that) that was ever so slightly underhand.

 

[Dark Sith Lord]

So have you compiled a price list or not? If so could I have a copy sent to my email.

 

[Joe]

It strikes me people offered what they thought would be an enticing figure to someone who was unaware of the true value. I think despite everyone seemingly wanting a good deal these days (nothing wrong with that) that was ever so slightly underhand.

Be careful with the accusations before we go any further, I am not the one charging for my "help"

Actually I had pretty much walked away from the whole deal after he said he wasn't interested in splitting. In fact my last messages were all info and links to help him price his own figures - nothing to do with the cardback, I even told him to get some boxed valuations from Emiel (Capetown) as he knew his stuff.

Look, I am not a dealer - I was not looking to flip this or screw him over. I offered a price, he didn't entertain the conversation so I dropped it and tried to help him with his other stuff. I personally will never pay more than 50 quid for a cardback, I have had some rarer ones and I have seen followed cards for a long time (Ledy, Trilogo you name it) - I gave legitimate sales data and tried to help him by providing him links.

You can assume what you want about me or my offer - Shane could well have stuck it on ebay BIN and got a tenner for it and been none the wiser. I offered more and made him aware I was prepared to pay more if he wanted a higher price AFTER he had researched what he had.

Shane said he would price his items and move them to the sales part of the forum, the good part about selling here is: You don't pay fees for selling, you sell your items to people that appreciate them, you get free valuations and help from nice people and you get rid of the stuff you don't want. I think it's reasonable for a few of us to get the odd bargain for putting in the leg work to help people like Shane, you obviously think your time is worth something as well judging by the 10%

 

[SOKeeffe]

Price List

I'm in work lads and don't have the price list finished.

Basically what i have done is set up an excel sheet with all the items on it.

I have 3 or 4 people giving me their opinions on the prices and then i have everyone else pricing the odd piece for me,

When i have them all on the list i will average it out and then email the list to whoever requests it.

But i am afraid I have not looked at it since yesterday.

 

[BespinFatigues]

All i'll say to that Joe, with particular attention to your opening sentence, is you've obviously taken it upon yourself to assume that each of my replies has been targeted solely at you.

You weren't the only person to make an offer...furthermore you may not have been charging for your 'help' but it seems you weren't about to lose out either were you.

Something for YOU to think about before shouting the odds here and questioning the morals perhaps?

 

[Capetown]

How did you expect the seller to come back with a counter offer if he doesn't know the market?

You people sure you're not just pissed because you didn't get a piece you wanted?

So why didn't you just give a valuation on his item so that he had a better position negotiating a price on here? Like Joe said he would have saved on fees, eBay's (10%) and yours (10%).

 

[Joe]

Actually look, this just proves my point at how hypocritical Mr Bespinfatigues is,

Buys a figure for 12 quid - http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330586815095#ht_500wt_1156

Now its worth 45 quid - http://threads.rebelscum.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB29&Number=4629832&Forum=All_Forums&Words=&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Main=4629832&Search=true&where=bodysub&Name=28776&daterange=1&newerval=&newertype=&olderval=&oldertype=&bodyprev=#Post4629832

Maybe you should jump back on your high horse and go around ebay telling all the people with no clue how much their figures are really worth instead of buying them to flip..

Whatever, my conscience is clean, no hard feelings Shane and good luck with your sales mate- was a nice collection and on an unrelated note it was funny to see your name inked on some of the old cards Shame you won't turn into a collector yourself as childhood items are some of the most important to collectors

 

[Capetown]

All i'll say to that Joe, with particular attention to your opening sentence, is you've obviously taken it upon yourself to assume that each of my replies has been targeted solely at you.

You weren't the only person to make an offer...furthermore you may not have been charging for your 'help' but it seems you weren't about to lose out either were you.

Something for YOU to think about before shouting the odds here and questioning the morals perhaps?

Particular attention to the opening sentence, but did you read the rest of his reply?

 

[BespinFatigues]

And the thread on RS says sold does it? So you can gaurantee to everyone on here that i got my £45 for it and i've successfully made all my profit? OR you assume i sold it but still think it's ok to try and make my name look like mud whilst warning me about me making accusations about you?

It's a cheap shot, you should be ashamed of yourself.

I hope you're ebay account is absolutely whiter than white..

Because offering £30 for the Jawa knowing FULL well it's worth more than that isn't gonna land you with the karma prize, but you could have negotiated after his counter offer right? Only as i've pointed out already, Shane doesn't know the market so how's he going to be adequately equipped to make a counter offer? YOU held all the cards Joe and you were trying to land it for as cheaply as possible which would have made my 10% commission look like chump change.

I've not come on here claiming to be anything i'm not but what i am is a straight shooter and i've been completely transparent in disclosing what's going on including the comission which, ultimately is nothing to do with you or anyone else so to use that against me is one thing but the Fett is another level.

Tell you what if you really want that Jawa card and you'd have gone to £60 with Shane then guess what? It's £24.99 start so you got a way to go before you gotta bust your piggy bank way open.

 

[BespinFatigues]

[/quote]

Particular attention to the opening sentence, but did you read the rest of his reply?[/quote]

Yes i did, what did you feel i missed out on? I was struggling for content passed the obvious sniping?

 

[SOKeeffe]

Seriously lads.....

no point in all the arguing, whats done is done...." Won't somebody please just think of the children" :lol:

I don't feel like anyones taken advantage of me, From all the offers I got yesterday to the assistance of the ebay seller, I still don't feel anyones tried get one over on me.

Remember nothings sold yet, everything is still there and from the response I am getting I have a few items that different collectors are looking for.

So, Easier to move on at this stage ......

I know I am a novice to the forum, But novice or not I opened the thread in Vintage valuation help to get some vintage valuation help. When I was happy with the info and i had an idea what items were worth then my plan was to move the items to sell in the ''selling part of the forum'' or ''ebay'' whatever i felt was the right choice.

I have 2 offers on the lot also which i haven't ruled out yet either.....

 

[BespinFatigues]

Furthermore Joe, as you've made it quite clear that your conscience is clear and you've taken the moral highground with me, how about we make this a level playing field and give everyone the oppurtunity to go through your ebay sales, purchases and deals on forums so we can scrutinise your legitamacy as a collector publicly and ensure you've not made a penny out of any one deal you've made?

 

[Joe]

You are the one offering your services for a cut of the profit mate not me, I am just a collector who wanted to add something to his collection, if I showed you flipping something it's because you have turned up to paint members of this forum as low-ballers/opportunists etc so at the first look of your feedback I noticed the Fett..

As for help, I have been helping people on and off for the last 9 years in collecting if and when I can, there are no ulterior motives for the emails and PM's I send.

In fact since starting my site I am literally swamped with PM's and emails from people seeking valuations, advice, information, pictures, you name it, I try to help where I can, should I start charging for that time I never get back? Maybe..if you feel 10% is a fair price for some "help"

As for ebay- Mark, Shawn and anyone else who bids on items for me can attest to the fact that I don't use ebay, I deal with honest and clued up people on the forums where I don't have to run into idiots.

 

[BespinFatigues]

That's great joe, i'm really pleased for you that you're doing your bit.

It's just a real shame that you couldn't bend a little more with the humility to avoid that cheap stunt above...

You've got a real persecution complex there Joe about people targetting you, you sure your conscience is clear? You're awefully defensive...I came on here voluntarily and offered an upfront explanation by way of Ebay mail to what was going on with the Jawa so don't start trying to call into question my morality...

'you have turned up to paint members of this forum as low-ballers/opportunists etc'

Wherabouts did i do that? I made comment on the fact some of the offers had been low, your's included, is that turning up to 'paint members' of the forum in the light you've implied i have? I don't think so, i think you'll find i came on the forum to clarify a few points which you seem unable to accept in no small part due to you thinking im hell bent on tarnishing your holier than thou image - get over yourself or 'off your high horse' as you told me i should.

 

[Joe]

End of the day, Shane was not obliged to sell me anything, I never said "Hey Shane, listen I will knock you up a total for your figures in exchange for that Jawa card or a reduced price on it" I offered him some money, he pretty much said he didn't want to split the collection so I gave it up and still continued to help him.

That's different in my opinion to saying "Sure I will list them for you but this is the cut I want" - I don't care if that's 10% 25% or 1%!

I didn't have my heart set on the cardback, I have seen enough to know there will be another, the reason we are arguing is not the fact that I missed out on it at all, it's that you stepped in and are profiting from Shane for your help and making it look like people here (myself included) were trying to profit off of him when in comparison all I (and I presume others) did was offer help and were not looking for anything in return from Shane.

If you can't see why people would get upset at that then there's no point continuing.

 

[BespinFatigues]

I don't think it was quite as simple as you offering him some money and then giving it up when he told you he didn't want to split though was it? You've already spoken about counter offers and told me by pm

'if I offered a few quid lower than the last sale it was because we all like a bargain'

Yet where i'm concerned...

'That's different in my opinion to saying "Sure I will list them for you but this is the cut I want" - I don't care if that's 10% 25% or 1%!

Yes it is different, it's worse. You knew the top range according to cards you'd 'tracked' was £52 yet decided to offer £30? Well look if we're going to get into the nitty gritty of people flipping things and morality etc the difference between £52 and £30 is £22......10% of £52 is £5.20 so you do the 'Math'. Shane was relying on you for an honest appraisal, it seems your offer fell conveniently just short of those all important previously tracked offerings, shame.

To be honest with you Joe this whole getting on the defensive thing is a little bit flawed, and this...

'If you can't see why people would get upset at that then there's no point continuing'.

...well then maybe there is no point in continuing it because i don't see anyone else getting upset apart from you with your one man band off the wall defense. I came on this forum voluntarily to clarify a few points. YOU took it upon yourself to assume some of those points were directed at you. They weren't, i don't know you from Adam and to be honest after your display today i wouldn't want that to change. Dragging up ebay purchases and cross referencing them against Rebelscum sales is frankly...desperate. You really need to clarify some points with your own deal making before bringing into question mine and trying to publicly humiliate me. I don't suffer fools gladly, im content with my actions here, if you can say the same about your own then i fear we're going to have to agree to disagree.

 

[Caswellbot]

Bespin Fatigues - Joe couldnt just assume it would sell for £52 based on the last one that sold. I believe Im right in thinking that that is the top end of what one has sold for recently. No one in their right mind would offer the top top end from the off. I think you know that too. I dont see what Joe is meant to have done wrong here to be honest.


Lets say for arguments sake it sold for £40 on ebay (In the middle of the 2 prices stated). You would take 10% and ebay would also take 10% then paypal would take another cut. This would leave Shane with about £30 and there is alot more hassle involved in this route for sure.


It sounds to me like Joe made an offer and Shane didnt accept. That is his choice and fair play if he wants to see if he can get more. It would seem to me from the comments on this post that there are no hard feelings between Shane and Joe.

For what its worth, Joe is one of the most trustworthy, reliable and dedicated collectors I have ever dealt with. He has incredible knowledge and has helped out so many people in reaching their goals. He is a credit to the hobby and I am sure that many people would agree with me.

 

[BespinFatigues]

For what its worth, Joe is one of the most trustworthy, reliable and dedicated collectors I have ever dealt with. He has incredible knowledge and has helped out so many people in reaching their goals. He is a credit to the hobby and I am sure that many people would agree with me.

I'm not quite sure that glowing reference extends to searching my ebay purchases and cross referencing them against recent ads on forums in an attempt to publicly question my morals...

Especially given that i'd come on here completely voluntarily and offered up by way of explanation the plans to sell the Jawa in a way that was completely transparent.

Joes conduct here absolutely stinks. A 'credit' to the hobby maybe but certainly no gentleman.

 

[Joe]

..quoting parts of PM's - here we go!

Didn't quote this did you?

If I offered 30-40 quid, said I was prepared to pay that AT LEAST and to let me know what he thought, that was the start of talks for the card, my limit was 50-60 which is the highest price I have seen one sell for, if he had given it some thought, perhaps used the forum to get other opinions then we could have worked something out. I am very fair regardless of what you think of me in light of this. I do not have a money tree but when I get a deal it stays with me, I am a collector at heart no salesman.

My PM's to Shane:

Number 1:

Nice lot of toys, for the loose figures you can look here for some ebay past sale prices : http://retrorewindtoys.com/2011/07/09/e ... omparison/

http://retrorewindtoys.com/2011/06/30/s ... ne-2011-2/

Or you can look here at the completed listings of the loose figures on ebay - http://completed.shop.ebay.co.uk/Figure ... 86.c0.m283

I know some of the other guys will tackle prices for the boxed stuff (Capetown is great with boxed toys)

As for the figures I am interested in-

The Jawa is a hard to find Trilogo still carded, the last cardback sold for about 30 quid, so in light of that I would offer you at least that for the card

He replied:

Thanks for you offer.

To be honest I just started this process and haven't a clue what stuff is worth, before I was going to put the items in the for sale part of the website i wanted to get an idea of what my stuff is worth.

Once i have compiled this info i will put the stuff up for sale.

In a perfect world i would sell them as a lot because i don't have a lot of time to sort all the logistics of selling them separately.....but I will wait to see more replies before i sell

PM Number 2 from me:

No problem, I quite understand.

What I would say is that selling as a lot is definitely easier but it won't always get you the best price. Selling individually is the way to go if you have the time + the patience to make it work.

I wish you all the best - definitely check out the links I gave you for the loose figures as it should help with your pricing

Good luck mate, it's a nice set of toys

His reply:

Hi Joe,

Thanks for your help on the links and it seems like i can get majority of info there,,,,

Is there anyone who would actually price the stuff i have so i can put them all on a list or is it better to just gather the info and do a list myself,,,

I am unsure even about post and packaging.... I'm a real beginner i know !!

you gave me a link for loose figures. I have some loose but what are my figures with the card back with them, I naturally can't call these sealed and unused but then again they are not exactly loose , or are they ?? can you assist ??

I sent him another load of links to Palitoy cards with loose figures, another link to a lot of figures with cardbacks etc after this and even explained how to set up paypal and to focus on posting to UK guys only at first to save him some trouble (And I don't live in the UK!!)

If Shane felt like I badgered him for the card which I was interested in I would appreciate him saying so, if he felt in any way that I attempted to rip him off I will gladly apologise and leave people to make up their own opinions on all this.

From my perspective I had all but walked away from the deal from the first reply he sent me yet continued to help where I could..

Shane knew I was interested in the cardback, I left it with him and my offer, there was no pressure on him to say yes!

If I had told him it was worthless or offered him a fiver for it I could see where you were coming from but no..I didn't.

 

[BespinFatigues]

and trying to call me out publicly?

 

[PGowdy]

I can see some peoples noses are outa joint.

At the end of the day I just have a collection that I wanna sell.

Yesterday afternoon i posted the pictures and my mailbox filled up with enquiries,

I hadn't a clue what i had or how much the stuff was worth yet I had loads of offers on stuff i hadn't yet valued,

Anyways, Like the post says, late last night when compiling a price list i had some assistance from someone who said the jawa was probably the best piece and that i should probably test the waters on ebay and see what happens.

so i decided I would....Simple as that, and to be honest at midnight last night I wasn't going to go replying to everyone who emailed me yesterday afternoon who was interested in the Jawa ( and there was a lot of interest and offers )

so again, Joe and others who I may have put out i apologize but hopefully you understand that there was nothing underhanded about anything......

Dude, i can see why you'd want to go to ebay with things if someone tells you they are worth good money and you have no experience in valuing items but if someone helped you with valuations and offered you (what sounds like a decent) price for something you should have messaged him just saying "dude, i have been told i can get more for the Jawa on ebay and as i'm not sure what it's worth that's what i am going to do. Sorry to mess you about and thanks for the valuations. Please feel free to bid on the Jawa". It's just manners that's all. People feel a bit used is all. Especially when you stated, to me and i assume others, that you were compiling opinions and valuations so that you could work out a price list and then "get back to people when you know what things are worth".
I hope you see my point here.