Memorobilia
- Thread starter stevemac1976
- Start date
Hi everyone
I have been thinking of joining this forum for a while now, and sorry that I must come on here and defend myself and my business from attack as my 1st post.
I am shocked and saddened to hear what Caswellbot has been saying with regards a private transaction that I had at Memorabilia with a long time friend and customer of over 15 years. The friends in question were collectors called Derek Tate and Mark Allington who I have both known since the early Star Wars conventions that ran in Cheshunt in the early to mid 1990s.
The figures in question that I purchased were the following:
Tri-logo - Luke Storm, Luke Poncho, R2-D2 and Luke Bespin
ROTJ Kenner - Yoda, Han Bespin, Han Hoth, C3PO R/Limbs, Bib Fortuna
ROTJ Palitoy - Luke Jedi Knight
All the figures were in varying states of condition from C6 - C8 and all the last 17 trilogo's have the £1.59 sticker. I worked out the price I can sell the figures for and this came to £750 and so the offer of £400 was based on that retail price. This apart from being my hobby for the last 30 years has been my full time business since 1991 and I have to make a profit to make a living so the offer was reasonable to the seller. After expenses, table costs, buyers haggling, discount, ebay fees etc this is the sort of amount 50-60% of retail price I would offer any customer. I assume Caswellbot you have a job? and you maybe make a little money along the way? I have seen your Ebay listings, do you not sell items for a profit sometimes?
Caswellbot what you did at the show was very unprofessional and the seller of the figures came back to my stall very upset and almost shaking after you confronted him in the cafe area, he was upset that you became aggressive (as you said earlier "he a is a weedy guy you know the type") and left the show shortly after.
A little bit about me and my business for anyone that doesn't know me (sorry if it's getting boring!) I am not just a dealer , I am a very serious collector with a personal collection and have loved Star Wars products since they first hit the shelves. I care as passionately about the toys now as I have always done and have contributed to books, given talks and put items from my collection on public display.
As a dealer my business was established in 1991, I have attended every Memorabilia since the very first event and over the years have built up strong relationships with my customers so much so that many are now my best friends. I am not some fly-by night dealer that is looking to make a quick buck and because of that my customers keep coming back year after year and that is the reason I have managed to do the job that I love for the last 20 years. But as you will appreciate I have to be able to make a profit on the items I sell and always offer a fair price hence the reason customers keep coming back.
Caswellbot I hope you understand now that what I did was not wrong and was fair, further attacks on myself or my company will not be tolerated and I will seek to protect the business I love and care about so passionately about.
Happy collecting everyone!
Darren
PS if anyone would like to see a few items from my collection I have started adding them to Facebook, I plan on updating more over the coming months….time permitting
http://www.facebook.com/pages/StarZone/107805415918160
I have been thinking of joining this forum for a while now, and sorry that I must come on here and defend myself and my business from attack as my 1st post.
I am shocked and saddened to hear what Caswellbot has been saying with regards a private transaction that I had at Memorabilia with a long time friend and customer of over 15 years. The friends in question were collectors called Derek Tate and Mark Allington who I have both known since the early Star Wars conventions that ran in Cheshunt in the early to mid 1990s.
The figures in question that I purchased were the following:
Tri-logo - Luke Storm, Luke Poncho, R2-D2 and Luke Bespin
ROTJ Kenner - Yoda, Han Bespin, Han Hoth, C3PO R/Limbs, Bib Fortuna
ROTJ Palitoy - Luke Jedi Knight
All the figures were in varying states of condition from C6 - C8 and all the last 17 trilogo's have the £1.59 sticker. I worked out the price I can sell the figures for and this came to £750 and so the offer of £400 was based on that retail price. This apart from being my hobby for the last 30 years has been my full time business since 1991 and I have to make a profit to make a living so the offer was reasonable to the seller. After expenses, table costs, buyers haggling, discount, ebay fees etc this is the sort of amount 50-60% of retail price I would offer any customer. I assume Caswellbot you have a job? and you maybe make a little money along the way? I have seen your Ebay listings, do you not sell items for a profit sometimes?
Caswellbot what you did at the show was very unprofessional and the seller of the figures came back to my stall very upset and almost shaking after you confronted him in the cafe area, he was upset that you became aggressive (as you said earlier "he a is a weedy guy you know the type") and left the show shortly after.
A little bit about me and my business for anyone that doesn't know me (sorry if it's getting boring!) I am not just a dealer , I am a very serious collector with a personal collection and have loved Star Wars products since they first hit the shelves. I care as passionately about the toys now as I have always done and have contributed to books, given talks and put items from my collection on public display.
As a dealer my business was established in 1991, I have attended every Memorabilia since the very first event and over the years have built up strong relationships with my customers so much so that many are now my best friends. I am not some fly-by night dealer that is looking to make a quick buck and because of that my customers keep coming back year after year and that is the reason I have managed to do the job that I love for the last 20 years. But as you will appreciate I have to be able to make a profit on the items I sell and always offer a fair price hence the reason customers keep coming back.
Caswellbot I hope you understand now that what I did was not wrong and was fair, further attacks on myself or my company will not be tolerated and I will seek to protect the business I love and care about so passionately about.
Happy collecting everyone!
Darren
PS if anyone would like to see a few items from my collection I have started adding them to Facebook, I plan on updating more over the coming months….time permitting
http://www.facebook.com/pages/StarZone/107805415918160
Hey Darren.
Fair play to you for coming on here, to defend yourself as such.
I don't think the attack was on you or your method of business per say, more a case of collectors looking out for each other. We all appreciate that dealers are in business to make a profit and as such are going to offer a price slightly below (perceived) currenty market value, to enable them to cover overheads and make some money. I think the post was more about the fact that he was worried the poor guy had no real idea what he was selling and was accepting an offer that was substantially lower than he could/should have expected.
I suspect that if any of us were in your position we would do the same. I also suspect that had the seller declined your initial offer you may well have offered him slightly more!?
It's all part of the haggling process when you buy/sell and the seller didn't HAVE to accept your offer, so we're not saying you did anything wrong. More that it was strange/disappointing that he chose to accept an offer (apparently) much lower than he could/would have got had he sold else where.
His loss mind!
Fair play to you for coming on here, to defend yourself as such.
I don't think the attack was on you or your method of business per say, more a case of collectors looking out for each other. We all appreciate that dealers are in business to make a profit and as such are going to offer a price slightly below (perceived) currenty market value, to enable them to cover overheads and make some money. I think the post was more about the fact that he was worried the poor guy had no real idea what he was selling and was accepting an offer that was substantially lower than he could/should have expected.
I suspect that if any of us were in your position we would do the same. I also suspect that had the seller declined your initial offer you may well have offered him slightly more!?
It's all part of the haggling process when you buy/sell and the seller didn't HAVE to accept your offer, so we're not saying you did anything wrong. More that it was strange/disappointing that he chose to accept an offer (apparently) much lower than he could/would have got had he sold else where.
His loss mind!
Caswellbot
Sith Lord
- Joined
- Jan 1, 2010
- Messages
- 3,072
Hi Darren, first of all can I just apologise if you have taken offence to my post. I was in no way insinuating that you had deliberately tried to "rip the guy off" only that I couldnt believe that he accepted the first offer that was laid dowm. In fairness the offer was low for the items on the table and we both know that. I totally understand that you have to make a profit and the stalls at Memorabilia are not cheap.
What I object to is this notion that I "confronted him." I did absolutely no such thing. I was sitting in the food hall eating my lunch with my girlfriend and my brother and he happened to be sitting on the table next to me. As we exchanged a look he started the discussion with me. Not the other way round. We spoke in some length aboput collecting and about the deal in question. I told him that I thought he could have got a bit more out of you thats all. I also went on to re-assure him that at the end of the day he had turned a profit on the item himself as he had bought them some years ago and he should focus on that.
He went to the fair with a price in mind, he got the price in mind and so seemed content with that. We also had the discussion that dealers need to make a profit and as such he was never going to get top whack for bulk selling items to a dealer at a fair in this way. It was left at that.
The comments about his appearance were perhaps unnecessary and I apologise but he was clearly low on confidence and didnt have as accurate estimation of the value of his items as perhaps he should have.
At no point did I imply that I thought you had done one over on him and at no point did I attempt to scare him. I find that quite offensive. The conversation was friendly and was left on a very positive note.
To be honest Darren I think he was a little disappointed that he didnt get more for the items in question. Maybe I didnt need to highlight my opinion to him as it tipped him off so to speak but it may perhaps help him in the future when selling.
I have nothing against the method you used or your company (you had some great bits there) As a dealer your job is to go in low and that is what you did. I just didnt expect the guy to go for it straight off. I did not see my actions as being unprofessional. Fair enough if I had interjected in the deal but I abstained. His goods. His decision. It was more for future reference.
I hope that you do not take any of this personally. This is a great forum and there are some genuinely friendly and very knowledgeable people on here. I apologise again Im not a bad guy. Honest!
What I object to is this notion that I "confronted him." I did absolutely no such thing. I was sitting in the food hall eating my lunch with my girlfriend and my brother and he happened to be sitting on the table next to me. As we exchanged a look he started the discussion with me. Not the other way round. We spoke in some length aboput collecting and about the deal in question. I told him that I thought he could have got a bit more out of you thats all. I also went on to re-assure him that at the end of the day he had turned a profit on the item himself as he had bought them some years ago and he should focus on that.
He went to the fair with a price in mind, he got the price in mind and so seemed content with that. We also had the discussion that dealers need to make a profit and as such he was never going to get top whack for bulk selling items to a dealer at a fair in this way. It was left at that.
The comments about his appearance were perhaps unnecessary and I apologise but he was clearly low on confidence and didnt have as accurate estimation of the value of his items as perhaps he should have.
At no point did I imply that I thought you had done one over on him and at no point did I attempt to scare him. I find that quite offensive. The conversation was friendly and was left on a very positive note.
To be honest Darren I think he was a little disappointed that he didnt get more for the items in question. Maybe I didnt need to highlight my opinion to him as it tipped him off so to speak but it may perhaps help him in the future when selling.
I have nothing against the method you used or your company (you had some great bits there) As a dealer your job is to go in low and that is what you did. I just didnt expect the guy to go for it straight off. I did not see my actions as being unprofessional. Fair enough if I had interjected in the deal but I abstained. His goods. His decision. It was more for future reference.
I hope that you do not take any of this personally. This is a great forum and there are some genuinely friendly and very knowledgeable people on here. I apologise again Im not a bad guy. Honest!
mr_palitoy
Sith Lord
Just to chime in that if have known Darren for as long as I've been collecting and he's a top bloke to deal with.
And that's it bad form to interfere in a deal that you're not invited to be a part of.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Jason
And that's it bad form to interfere in a deal that you're not invited to be a part of.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Jason
Caswellbot
Sith Lord
- Joined
- Jan 1, 2010
- Messages
- 3,072
I understand your point Jason and appreciate your input.
Chris.
Chris.
Well being pretty impartial to this whole thing here is my view:
Chris isn't a dealer in my opinion so he has no real dealer mindset, sure he has bought and sold but its not his main job so I can understand why he felt sorry for "the little guy" in this situation as Chris is a collector first and foremost so he isn't going to be thinking "I hope that dealer makes a killing on this guy" - instead like most of us he will be thinking "jeez that guy is getting a rough deal" - Chris might have thought the guy didn't have a clue on value and that Darren was taking advantage.
Weasel mentioned as well that most of us would probably feel the same - I have to agree.
Darren, I know you are a collector and you sell toys/collectibles for a living, I am sure you will be used to peoples views on "dealers" and to some extent might understand their views while you probably don't agree on them. In the same respect, "collectors" should realise that dealers are there to make money, there would be no real point to you offering 650 on something you could sell for 750-800 as its going to take time for you to sell each piece and your profit needs to be worth it at the end of the day when you buy anything.
End of the day for me - you are both good guys, the difference is for one Star Wars is primarily a business and for the other its a hobby. If the guy wasn't happy with the offer he can always say no, confident or not it sounds like he knew about Star Wars and probably went there with a price in mind - he took it (who knows why - maybe a quick sale for a bad time perhaps or maybe he bought them for 200 quid !)
Agree to disagree on this one - Chris didn't intervene at the time and he came here asking if he was right or wrong to have felt like he should have..no foul play in my eyes - just a concerned collector.
Chris isn't a dealer in my opinion so he has no real dealer mindset, sure he has bought and sold but its not his main job so I can understand why he felt sorry for "the little guy" in this situation as Chris is a collector first and foremost so he isn't going to be thinking "I hope that dealer makes a killing on this guy" - instead like most of us he will be thinking "jeez that guy is getting a rough deal" - Chris might have thought the guy didn't have a clue on value and that Darren was taking advantage.
Weasel mentioned as well that most of us would probably feel the same - I have to agree.
Darren, I know you are a collector and you sell toys/collectibles for a living, I am sure you will be used to peoples views on "dealers" and to some extent might understand their views while you probably don't agree on them. In the same respect, "collectors" should realise that dealers are there to make money, there would be no real point to you offering 650 on something you could sell for 750-800 as its going to take time for you to sell each piece and your profit needs to be worth it at the end of the day when you buy anything.
End of the day for me - you are both good guys, the difference is for one Star Wars is primarily a business and for the other its a hobby. If the guy wasn't happy with the offer he can always say no, confident or not it sounds like he knew about Star Wars and probably went there with a price in mind - he took it (who knows why - maybe a quick sale for a bad time perhaps or maybe he bought them for 200 quid !)
Agree to disagree on this one - Chris didn't intervene at the time and he came here asking if he was right or wrong to have felt like he should have..no foul play in my eyes - just a concerned collector.
Yes I agree, assuming what's been said about the confrontation is inaccurate, it's a situation you can appreciate from both sides. I understand why Darren offered him the price he did, but I'm sure he wouldn't argue that he could have got more elsewhere. Equally, there's nothing wrong with being asked to make an offer, making said offer, and it being accepted. I know we all like to get things as cheaply as possible, I certainly wouldn't go out of my way to increase the asking price of something I wanted!
on another note - guys, please can you not embed such ridiculously big photos in threads please. I have a huge monitor and they still don't fit! It makes reading and replying to this thread very difficult. Please link to big images instead. Cheers.
on another note - guys, please can you not embed such ridiculously big photos in threads please. I have a huge monitor and they still don't fit! It makes reading and replying to this thread very difficult. Please link to big images instead. Cheers.
Just a correction on my part- I thought I read Chris say " was I right to think like this?" or similar - so he might not have been asking for opinions but I still think he was just being concerned when telling his story- not to badmouth Darren or anything else.
David Tree
Jedi Master
part coming out of retirement/ part figuring out the password again.
All I have to say is Darren is not only a good friend, but one of the most knowledgeable and respected collectors/ traders in the UK.
As a whole, those individuals that do this as a living are not looking to profit, they're looking to survive. There is a big difference to side-line and living. At a business level price paid and prices sold will always be different, no matter what the commodity. If it's something someone feels passionate about, never do your shopping in a supermarket.
The other way to look at it, if there were no traders, everyone will moan there was nothing at the show. Personally based on what has been covered here, I think he gave a pretty good deal as the market for sub-perfect figures is now non-existent. I can think of at least 3 other traders who were present over the weekend that probably would have offered half that or less, but I have yet to see any Star Wars traders roll up to a show in a Bentley :wink:
All I have to say is Darren is not only a good friend, but one of the most knowledgeable and respected collectors/ traders in the UK.
As a whole, those individuals that do this as a living are not looking to profit, they're looking to survive. There is a big difference to side-line and living. At a business level price paid and prices sold will always be different, no matter what the commodity. If it's something someone feels passionate about, never do your shopping in a supermarket.
The other way to look at it, if there were no traders, everyone will moan there was nothing at the show. Personally based on what has been covered here, I think he gave a pretty good deal as the market for sub-perfect figures is now non-existent. I can think of at least 3 other traders who were present over the weekend that probably would have offered half that or less, but I have yet to see any Star Wars traders roll up to a show in a Bentley :wink:
Black Falcon
Padawan
- Joined
- Dec 12, 2009
- Messages
- 74
Collectors pay the top prices for collectibles.
They are usually picky and try to drive a hard bargain, especially now "Tough economic times" to quote Alan Sugar.
Anyone who has ever tried tried their hand at buying to sell on for profit, or most of us who have dabbled at selling items we no longer want - have some idea of how difficult it can be. Many of us pick up things that we hope we could make a few bucks on down the line, helps fund our collecting, we tell ourselves.
Broadly speaking, it is not difficult for anyone to find approximate values of vintage Star Wars figures. A quick Ebay search, or a ton of price guides. Judgement are often clouded by "amazing" condition, graded examples and desirable variations. Based on the pieces mentioned, I don't see these as super-tough to find quite honestly. I wonder how many other stands he tried to sell them at?
Right now, with so many collectors thinning out or selling up, there are bargains out there.
OK, sure some items are holding value or going up, but generally the sale prices are low out there.
Darren has been collecting for as long as I can remember. He is a friend and I greatly value his knowledge and judgement in this hobby. He often hooks me up with stuff for my collection and even if I'm not buying, he has cool pieces to see at the shows over here. Personally, I try to support such guys
- Graham
They are usually picky and try to drive a hard bargain, especially now "Tough economic times" to quote Alan Sugar.
Anyone who has ever tried tried their hand at buying to sell on for profit, or most of us who have dabbled at selling items we no longer want - have some idea of how difficult it can be. Many of us pick up things that we hope we could make a few bucks on down the line, helps fund our collecting, we tell ourselves.
Broadly speaking, it is not difficult for anyone to find approximate values of vintage Star Wars figures. A quick Ebay search, or a ton of price guides. Judgement are often clouded by "amazing" condition, graded examples and desirable variations. Based on the pieces mentioned, I don't see these as super-tough to find quite honestly. I wonder how many other stands he tried to sell them at?
Right now, with so many collectors thinning out or selling up, there are bargains out there.
OK, sure some items are holding value or going up, but generally the sale prices are low out there.
Darren has been collecting for as long as I can remember. He is a friend and I greatly value his knowledge and judgement in this hobby. He often hooks me up with stuff for my collection and even if I'm not buying, he has cool pieces to see at the shows over here. Personally, I try to support such guys
- Graham
You cant really blame either party on what happened, if you put yourself in either shoes you would have done the same if you ask yourself these questions:
You see a dealer offering "what you think" is a lowball price for figures - you might try and help the guy out with a shake of the head.....
You are doing a deal and getting some stuff at a great price...then you see someone interfering and trying to inform the seller to ask for more.
You can see whay he would be annoyed that you interfered, and you can see why he might try and help him out.
Unfortunate, lets all kiss and make up (not in real life Stu)
Both good guys, we all know that.
You see a dealer offering "what you think" is a lowball price for figures - you might try and help the guy out with a shake of the head.....
You are doing a deal and getting some stuff at a great price...then you see someone interfering and trying to inform the seller to ask for more.
You can see whay he would be annoyed that you interfered, and you can see why he might try and help him out.
Unfortunate, lets all kiss and make up (not in real life Stu)
Both good guys, we all know that.
spoons
Grand Master
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2006
- Messages
- 8,318
tigerham said:MEM is Memorabillia which is a Film exhibition at the NEC in Birmingham. All kinds of things will be there from the Sci Fi films including things to buy i.e. MOC's and loose figures.
That's nice Tig - if a little random :lol:
edit - but not as random as me quoting from page 1. It's been a long day
Thanks for the kind words guys, it means a lot.
Chris has apologised and I accept that and it's time to move on.
The seller of the figures has been back in contact with me and I am buying more items from him this weekend, he is entirely happy with the prices we have a agreed and definately doesn't feel like I "mugged him". He is not a novice and as you can tell by the 1st batch of figures he has collected and sold me(Luke Stormtrooper etc) he is well aware of what he has and the price they sell for.
I have learned a lesson from all of this, and that is to do my buying behind my table and away from potential onlookers to avoid any future problems or confrontation.
Like i said in my first post I have been meaning to join this forum for a while, and although I admit I am not much of a forum guy I will try and contribute in the future.
Now let's get back to doing what we all enjoy and happy collecting!
Darren
Chris has apologised and I accept that and it's time to move on.
The seller of the figures has been back in contact with me and I am buying more items from him this weekend, he is entirely happy with the prices we have a agreed and definately doesn't feel like I "mugged him". He is not a novice and as you can tell by the 1st batch of figures he has collected and sold me(Luke Stormtrooper etc) he is well aware of what he has and the price they sell for.
I have learned a lesson from all of this, and that is to do my buying behind my table and away from potential onlookers to avoid any future problems or confrontation.
Like i said in my first post I have been meaning to join this forum for a while, and although I admit I am not much of a forum guy I will try and contribute in the future.
Now let's get back to doing what we all enjoy and happy collecting!
Darren
Chris is a good guy and i'm sure he only had the sellers best interests at heart. I totally understand that a dealer has to buy as low as he can to make a profit to keep his business going...and theres nothing wrong with that. The dealer gets his stock and the seller gets an amount he's willing to accept.
Chris was probably just thinking that if the seller had sold his stuff to other collectors on a forum like this, he would have made more money than he got.
I'm glad you guys have sorted it out, and it probably is better like you say, to do deals behind the counter. As that will stop other collectors jumping in and saying.....Hold on a minute, i'll give you £450 then the whole thing turns into an auction lol
NOW more to the point......Hi Darren, Welcome to the forum :wink: What goodies have you got for sale?
Chris was probably just thinking that if the seller had sold his stuff to other collectors on a forum like this, he would have made more money than he got.
I'm glad you guys have sorted it out, and it probably is better like you say, to do deals behind the counter. As that will stop other collectors jumping in and saying.....Hold on a minute, i'll give you £450 then the whole thing turns into an auction lol
NOW more to the point......Hi Darren, Welcome to the forum :wink: What goodies have you got for sale?
Caswellbot
Sith Lord
- Joined
- Jan 1, 2010
- Messages
- 3,072
I'm glad that this can be put behind us. There are some.good voices if reason on these boards and that is why I think its the forum I've used the most in recent years.
Thanks to all for taking the time to comment and to darren for accepting my apology.
Chris.
Thanks to all for taking the time to comment and to darren for accepting my apology.
Chris.
