Do you make offers on live auctions?

[walkie]

I imagine alot of backdooring happens in the valuation threads as well. It's often the case that someone requests a valuation and when the items finally end up been listed for sale they have been cherry picked or are no longer for sale.

Scamming is a different issue to making people offers to end auctions early imo.

I have a clear conscious that the offers I make are relative to the items value.

Heck I have even had offers turned down to end of winning the auction at a lower price, one such occasion saved me £200, now I bet the seller wishes he had taken me up on my offer on that one!

 

[aussiejames]

"If no one else has bid on the item" we're talking about active/live auctions where someone has bid on the item.
I didn't say the same as backdooring, I said not much different. Just the timing has changed. If a seller puts up an item for sale via auction they agree to sell to the highest bidder, when a buyer places a bid they agree to honour that offer. Making an offer to end an auction breaches this transaction between seller & bidder.

"I would find it hard to believe that any one would tell a seller at a car boot sale or market stall...."How much.... £10, actually mate that's a rare figure/moc worth £150.."
I actually did this- cost a friend to loose out who had already made an offer Admittedly I wouldn't do it again.

 

[Dublinjeff]

By live, I mean auctions that haven't ended yet. Not just auctions with bids on.

I thought this was the question :?

 

[aussiejames]

By live, I mean auctions that haven't ended yet. Not just auctions with bids on.

I thought this was the question :?

I missed that bit too.

 

[Joe]

It's a question that comes up time and time again and it's a subject that people seem to have a million different opinions about.

You have to look at things from both the buyer and the sellers point of view in my opinion, a lot of sellers are motivated to sell and even if they realise the offer on the table may cost them a few £ in the long run it ultimately means they get paid quicker - whether or not buyers rely on that factor or they are just trying their luck with a cheeky offer the seller is the one that ultimately decides if the offer is good enough to accept.

If I were a seller without a clue and shortly after listing something got a cash offer to end early the alarm bells would be ringing. I would then research that item as much as I could before I got back to them. It's not all that hard to use google or even ebay to find out a bit about what you are selling and if you don't bother before you list it you should at least try to if you suddenly find yourself being offered money to end early.

Now for the buyers...IMO being a "nice guy" buyer on ebay is like being a Dolphin in a sea full of Sharks, you might look similar but you are a totally different kind of animal. The majority of people who buy on ebay are looking to buy cheap and resell or they are just looking for a bargain for a variety of reasons (not much cash + collecting on a budget/plain old cheapskate etc) which in turn means they are always going to try their luck and end an auction early.

Can you blame people for trying? I mean as much as it sucks to watch an auction get pulled when you had every intention of bidding/winning there isn't actually a penalty system for sellers if they end their listings early.


I think a better question (because this is so widespread and looking at the votes..accepted) is this: If you are going to try and end an auction early do you lowball the seller hoping for a bargain or do you actually pay a fair market value?

I know people that do not want to risk losing out at auction and therefore they put their best offer on the plate and see if the seller is tempted to make a quick sale at a good price. Maybe you forget to bid on that once in a lifetime item..your sniper tool doesn't load and no bid is placed..someone gets drunk and overpays leaving you in 2nd place..anything is possible and asking a seller to end early doesn't always mean you are trying it on.

FWIW- I have asked sellers in the past to end early on ebay if the item was something I couldn't let go or I didn't want to take the chance of losing..however my success rate with that is pretty low lol

Don't forget you can still be a nice guy and play the game. Saving money isn't always the ultimate goal of ending early (however I can't knock anyone who tries to save a few pennies as long as it's not at the expense of every seller they deal with..you have to be fair to some extent)

Joe

 

[slim]

Just because it's becoming the norm- doesn't make it right.
Not much different to backdooring is it?
"more cash for the seller as saving on fees" bollocks. People make an offer to end an auction in attempt to get it cheaper than if the auction ran it's course. If you don't believe this just place the bid!!!!
I've always wondered what's in it for the seller to end an auction early? They save ebay fees & get a price they are happy with. But risk losing potentially more money if there is a second, third... bidder. They can 'protect' this by ending the auction and putting it up for sale with a BIN/near offer at the price they were offered or more.

I won't go as far as to say it's scamming but it's on the same level as a seller not going through with a deal because the auction price was not high enough.

End of the day I don't think any less of people that choose to purchase items this way but do hold in higher regard those that choose not to.

"How would you like it if you unknowingly had something mega rare and sold it for £25, then found out somebody else would have paid £250?" yep that would suck but my ethics would not allow me to back out of a deal.

i have so far 1500 transactions on ebay , around a 50/50 split buying and selling ! i have never got lowball end it now offers and the same with me as i always make fair offers , most of the stuff i buy and sell is vintage starwars plus my old watches and medals and most people know the worth ! as i tell sellers on ebay click the advanced search for SOLD ITEMS and you will get a feel for the pricing of the piece you are selling , this is fair i say and as a result i get almost all items i want ended and in my collection :mrgreen:

 

[SublevelStudios]

I imagine alot of backdooring happens in the valuation threads as well. It's often the case that someone requests a valuation and when the items finally end up been listed for sale they have been cherry picked or are no longer for sale.

Scamming is a different issue to making people offers to end auctions early imo.

I have a clear conscious that the offers I make are relative to the items value.

Heck I have even had offers turned down to end of winning the auction at a lower price, one such occasion saved me £200, now I bet the seller wishes he had taken me up on my offer on that one!

I agree with this.

I don't see making someone a decent offer a scam - I see know harm in making an offer on a live auction, whether there are bids on it or not - the seller has the right to say no and let the auction run, there is no harm done.

If they're selling something truly rare, the chances are they'll get hit with loads of questions and offers and surely this would be a warning to them that they have something valuable. It takes nothing to do some research online.

It's basic buying and selling, they have something to sell, what price would they be happy with? And if they want to let the auction run, that's up to them.

 

[PGowdy]

It's a question that comes up time and time again and it's a subject that people seem to have a million different opinions about.

You have to look at things from both the buyer and the sellers point of view in my opinion, a lot of sellers are motivated to sell and even if they realise the offer on the table may cost them a few £ in the long run it ultimately means they get paid quicker - whether or not buyers rely on that factor or they are just trying their luck with a cheeky offer the seller is the one that ultimately decides if the offer is good enough to accept.

If I were a seller without a clue and shortly after listing something got a cash offer to end early the alarm bells would be ringing. I would then research that item as much as I could before I got back to them. It's not all that hard to use google or even ebay to find out a bit about what you are selling and if you don't bother before you list it you should at least try to if you suddenly find yourself being offered money to end early.

Now for the buyers...IMO being a "nice guy" buyer on ebay is like being a Dolphin in a sea full of Sharks, you might look similar but you are a totally different kind of animal. The majority of people who buy on ebay are looking to buy cheap and resell or they are just looking for a bargain for a variety of reasons (not much cash + collecting on a budget/plain old cheapskate etc) which in turn means they are always going to try their luck and end an auction early.

Can you blame people for trying? I mean as much as it sucks to watch an auction get pulled when you had every intention of bidding/winning there isn't actually a penalty system for sellers if they end their listings early.


I think a better question (because this is so widespread and looking at the votes..accepted) is this: If you are going to try and end an auction early do you lowball the seller hoping for a bargain or do you actually pay a fair market value?

I know people that do not want to risk losing out at auction and therefore they put their best offer on the plate and see if the seller is tempted to make a quick sale at a good price. Maybe you forget to bid on that once in a lifetime item..your sniper tool doesn't load and no bid is placed..someone gets drunk and overpays leaving you in 2nd place..anything is possible and asking a seller to end early doesn't always mean you are trying it on.

FWIW- I have asked sellers in the past to end early on ebay if the item was something I couldn't let go or I didn't want to take the chance of losing..however my success rate with that is pretty low lol

Don't forget you can still be a nice guy and play the game. Saving money isn't always the ultimate goal of ending early (however I can't knock anyone who tries to save a few pennies as long as it's not at the expense of every seller they deal with..you have to be fair to some extent)

Joe

Many times i have offered the seller more than the final auction price. An auction i didn't win because i forgot to bid. I always forget to bid, especially on 9 ****ing day auctions. I can't be arsed to sit watching auction for a week and a half, i've got **** to do. If i want something on ebay i ask if i can have it. If they say know, **** em, i move on.
I always offer what i think i can pay, if the auction goes for more then fair enough but like Joe says, i'd rather take £60 for an item (and avoid 10% ebay fees) than wait 10 days to maybe get 75 (67.50 after fees).
The only real issue i can see here is others who have bid on an item now have the item disappear (tho bare in mind this is usually very early in the auction and very few serious bidders will have bid anyway) and while that's annoying if it happens to you it's just kind of tough luck. The seller chose to sell it to someone else who wanted it. Ah well.

 

[Joe]

The only real issue i can see here is others who have bid on an item now have the item disappear (tho bare in mind this is usually very early in the auction and very few serious bidders will have bid anyway) and while that's annoying if it happens to you it's just kind of tough luck. The seller chose to sell it to someone else who wanted it. Ah well.

Yep, it's just kinda tough luck. I don't see it in the same way as backdooring (meaning the auction is over and someone offers the seller more outside of ebay leaving the winning bidder in the lurch..that IS wrong).

It's really just a case of the early bird catching the worm..a seller can always say no and if someone gets a bargain by trying it on then so be it, what can you do? We can't assume everyone who ends auctions early is lowballing even if it's likely so all you can do is hope the auctions you are interested in run till the end (many sellers do actually prefer to let them run) or join in and see what happens..no harm in asking is there? bids or not..

Joe

 

[flycasual]

I agree with this: "Just because it's becoming the norm- doesn't make it right."

It's not the same as backdooring, but not much different, is it?

Buying something from a car boot sale or online advert is very different: It's not an auction.

I have turned down offers on auctions only for them to sell much cheaper, too. That is part of the risk of auctions.

Taking advantage of sellers stupidity/ignorance isn't a good reason. Nor is impatience. Just because "everyone else does it", is an even worse argument.

I don't think scamming is a different issue: If an auction has an obviously rare item in the lot; getting the seller to cancel the listing for a fraction of the price it was almost certainly going to reach, is scamming. Offering a reasonable price for the lot, I agree, isn't scamming.

If the seller chose to sell it to someone else in this instance. What is wrong with them selling it to someone who offers more after the auction has finished? Ah well/So be it/Tough luck.

 

[aussiejames]

Wow Pete, I'm hoping you're having a laugh?!! We haven't always agreed on some matters but I've never doubted your integrity before. If you're willing to 'backdoor' ( & credit to you for admitting it ) does that mean if I buy something from you the deal isn't done until I receive the item because someone may offer you more? The seller may choose to reneg on a deal but the prospective buyer chooses to make an offer during or after an auction. Both are equally at fault?
You don't have to watch an auction, just place your max bid when you see it, if you don't win then 'Ah well/So be it/Tough luck.'


EDIT: was a misunderstanding

 

[Joe]

It really is up to the individual as to how they conduct themselves in deals and trades what they deem acceptable or not, you can't really impose your views on other people but it does make for a good discussion.

I think it's telling that you asked a question that you (and 7 others) answered "No" to yet 21 other people who we share the forum with answered "Yes". That doesn't mean that those 21 people who think it's O.K to end auctions early are bad people or are trying to scam uninformed sellers day in day out on ebay, that would be an assumption based on the fact that you believe everyone that ends an auction early does so to hoodwink the seller, which is simply untrue..it might be a possibility but you can't say it's a certainty.

I do admire people like AJ and yourself Greg for standing up for what you believe is right, I think it's nice that there are "Gentlemen" still out there but I just think you have to be realistic sometimes and realise that the majority of people do this on ebay without flinching, so much so that it has become an every day occurrence and really not worth getting upset about.

As a side note and perhaps to add to the discussion: I find it interesting however that you mentioned that you thought winning a figure lot for a good price that contained interesting variants or rare figures was "acceptable" yet ending an auction early wasn't.

Surely if you were to take the moral high ground in every situation you should be informing these sellers of a particular variant or rarity in their lot that could make them more money if sold separately or if attention was brought to it in the listing.

I am not trying to upset anyone with this, it's just my opinion after all..but if you think back dooring is on par with ending an auction early, then I think bidding on a lot with the intention of winning it cheap because you have seen a hidden gem is definitely akin to trying to get a few bargains with some cheeky "out of ebay" offers. You may let the auction run the old fashioned way which in turn means the risk of losing out is higher but ultimately you are hoping to get a bargain (which in turn means the uninformed seller has lost out).

There are many different ways you can use your knowledge to assist you in this hobby, using it to find bargains is one of the most important, simply because it enables many of us to continue to collect without breaking the bank. The Americans call it flipping, you simply buy things you know you can sell for more money and you use those funds to buy items you actually want. I don't see anything terribly wrong with doing that unless you really are a scumbag and are snagging Palitoy carded figures off of OAP's for £10 a pop and pretending they are nothing special while you do the deal

When all is said and done, I don't begrudge anyone a bargain once in a while, however it happens.

 

[Joe]

Not sure you can take much from this example but I thought I would share it as it was the only instance in the last 2 years that I can remember (I haven't done much buying in a while):

A few months ago two figures appeared on ebay.com that I was informed of, one was a POTF2 sample and the other was a POTF2 mock up..(you can guess the character). I was quite interested in adding them to my run but as funds are non existent at the moment and I am not all that up on modern pre prod I asked around to see what people thought of the starting bid prices and how much they thought they were worth because I didn't really have much to spend.

I was informed that the starting bid price on the sample was about right and the mock up was probably a little high so I decided to ask the seller on about day 3 of the auction if he had a price in mind for both of them. He said he would accept the starting bids for both but couldn't go any lower, he would however include shipping if I accepted.

I mulled it over and decided not to buy both at that price as I was more interested in the sample and figured I could win it at auction without having to buy the mock up as well.

Well, I was wrong. The sample and the mock up did more than double the amount the seller offered them to me for a few days before.

I could have kicked my own behind for not saying yes a few days earlier, the seller dictated the price he was happy with and I had the chance to walk away with them for a lot less than someone else was willing to pay..but I didn't.

And that is how you play the auction ending early game and still lose my dear friends

 

[flycasual]

I also like the discussion.

Getting auctions ended early with a reasonable offer isn't my major issue, even if I wish it didn't happen at all. It's the "scamming" that annoys me.

Buying bargains when auctions have run their full course is more than acceptable, it's preferable. At least everyone has had the chance to bid. It's not the buyers duty to tell the seller what they are selling. Anyone can get informed.

RE: "if you think back dooring is on par with ending an auction early, then I think bidding on a lot with the intention of winning it cheap because you have seen a hidden gem is definitely akin to trying to get a few bargains with some cheeky "out of ebay" offers."
I don't think ending auctions is on a par with back dooring. Ending auctions by "scamming" might be though.

I don't begrudge anyone a bargain, either. I do care how it happens, though.

 

[itfciain]

I am confused - how do you end an auction by 'scamming' ?

I have to say, I am with Joe on this one. It is never nice when it happens to you but I have made offers to end auctions in past and will probably do so again. I can't see how it is on a par with back dooring.

 

[tiefighterboy]

Ebay is full of many people with more money than sense...............Most bidders I do not know.................So I f I get a deal....and the seller is happy...I personally do not give a **** either way.

Now when it comes to the forums...............I would never screw over a forum member by back dooring them on a deal or pulling out of sale due to someone offering me more.

 

[flycasual]

"getting the seller to cancel the listing for a fraction of the price it was almost certainly going to reach"

I call that scamming.

Paying £100 for a lot worth £400 or more, for example.

 

[PGowdy]

Wow Pete, I'm hoping you're having a laugh?!! We haven't always agreed on some matters but I've never doubted your integrity before. If you're willing to 'backdoor' ( & credit to you for admitting it ) does that mean if I buy something from you the deal isn't done until I receive the item because someone may offer you more? The seller may choose to reneg on a deal but the prospective buyer chooses to make an offer during or after an auction. Both are equally at fault?
You don't have to watch an auction, just place your max bid when you see it, if you don't win then 'Ah well/So be it/Tough luck.'

I think i've been misunderstood. The way i worded my first sentence made it seem like i was making offers on auctions that had already ended and been won by someone. I didn't notice till just reading it back how it sounded.
"Many times i have offered the seller more than the final auction price. An auction i didn't win because i forgot to bid."

Can't believe how bad that sounds now reading it but it's totally not what i meant!!
I meant that many times i have offered a seller an amount for an item that was live… the seller didn't accept said offer but the auction ended for less than i offered and i didn't win the auction because i forgot to bid. I just worded it terribly, that's all. My bad.
I just want to make it clear that i have never and would never EVER make an offer to a seller for an item that has already been sold to someone else. I find the very thought of that deplorable and sickening to my stomach. I actually think anyone on here found to be doing that should be banned it's that despicable.

Hope i've made myself clear… this time. :roll:

Addition: My piont, originally was meant to be tackling the myth that 'an offer made on a love auction is pretty much always a low-ball offer and is inherently deceitful'. I appreciate this happens a lot but i was attempting to offer an alternative reality. Making very sensible sometimes even generous offers in order to get the deal done and not risk missing out on an auction due to the fact that i can't sit around all week watching items end. The amount of **** i forgotten to bid on that i desperately wanted is unreal. And 8/10 times it goes for way less than i would have payed so by not making an offer and allowing the auction to run the seller can sometimes miss out and the bidders get a bargain. Goes both ways. Sometimes.

 

[aussiejames]

Yeah sorry Pete- totally misunderstood what you meant.

 

[PGowdy]

Yeah sorry Pete- totally misunderstood what you meant.

Not surprised. It did read that way tho it didn't dawn on me for a second till i read your post and then went back to see what i had said that was so different to everyone else… i didn't get very far into my post before i realised… :roll: :lol:
Had i thought anyone else was owning up to such practices i would have jumped on them just as you did. Most don't have the bottle but there are some things that need to be said even in at the risk of upsetting another member so appreciate you tackling it head-on. Seems we're not so different. :wink:

There is a complex moral discussion to be had here on the rights on wrongs of the practice in mention (the thread title discussion) but to me, actual "backdooring" on forums, ebay or anywhere else is, i say again, completely and utterly deplorable and as far as i'm concerned is not up for discussion. Tho i'm pretty sure we're all agreed on that. I hope.