$18k for a loosie

[Bunglebubs]

I didn't know these were the people behind CIB, shows how much I know :lol:

I bought something from them over a year ago and it was a reasonable price, quick delivery too. But it would be quite bad if what is said here is true

 

[maxf]

Tom Derby is a stand up guy - he has been selling Star Wars since before 99% of people on here even thought about collecting! I believe he maybe DID have some money in AFA, but also believe he has stated many times since that he no longer does (or never did). CIB authenticate for AFA, which makes sense as Tom is pretty much the authority on prototypes (along with a few others of course).

I don't like AFA, or what they do - but will stick up for Tom. Brianstoys on the other hand would appear a bit murkier.

 

[theforceuk]

Yeah I think we have to be careful here with the AFA bashing, Ok some like grading some don't. CIB authentificate items but don't have anything to do with the grading. Surely this is a good thing, as AFA aren't getting any old chump to say if something is fake or not?

As usual this thread has turned into an AFA bashing thread when they don't set the price on anything they grade, only the maniac buyers do that. Believe me I've got answers to replies to this post, graded auction items selling on eBay for a fraction of the BIN price of many unsold items says it all.

With grading it seems to be all or nothing on here and it's really not the case for me. Just saying. :?

Also I wouldn't buy this DT Vader for £500 because it does not float my boat having a saber that extends further than most. :lol:

 

[Lindo]

I don't think this is an AFA bashing session tbh mate, I like AFA and I buy graded items and will continue to do so, I asked the original question as I would like to know the answer to is CIB which sells afa graded products a parent company etc to afa or not! simple question not a dig

 

[theforceuk]

I don't think this is an AFA bashing session tbh mate, I like AFA and I buy graded items and will continue to do so, I asked the original question as I would like to know the answer to is CIB which sells afa graded products a parent company etc to afa or not! simple question not a dig

To be honest I don't care if it is an AFA bashing thread or not as long as it's relevant to collecting and factual.

I don't really no if CIB is a parent company or not and I'm not about to guess! What I do know is it's not in CIB's interest to authentificate fake items for grading. If it is then the sky will fall in on the person who wins this DT Vader and the whole grading world in general, which will probably happen one day anyway.

For the record I have loads of graded MOC's and some ungraded, but their all 100% origional because I can tell as well.

No offense ment by the way.

 

[Lindo]

None taken mate, I hav'nt mentioned grading fake items though ? not sure if anyone else did I shall have a re read

 

[theforceuk]

None taken mate, I hav'nt mentioned grading fake items though ? not sure if anyone else did I shall have a re read

Yeah that's my point mate, the entire point of CIB being involved with the grading process is authenticating the items not grading them. I personally don't see any discrepancy in the grading of items whether CIB have been involved or not but each to their own I guess.

But some how AFA and CIB have been put into question over the numbers which are printed on stickers which I think is ironic! That's all.

 

[Ian_C]

But some how AFA and CIB have been put into question over the numbers which are printed on stickers which I think is ironic! That's all.

The only question I personally have with it is that CIB has started selling stuff on ebay. It's commonly assumed a longtime client like Brianstoys gets favourable grades, so if that is true, then it's easy to further assume a business associate like CIB is going to get very favourable grades as well. No evidence for it, like I said, just assumption. I just feel that if CIB is sending items into AFA, it can be a bit of a conflict of interest.

Ian

 

[theforceuk]

But some how AFA and CIB have been put into question over the numbers which are printed on stickers which I think is ironic! That's all.

The only question I personally have with it is that CIB has started selling stuff on ebay. It's commonly assumed a longtime client like Brianstoys gets favourable grades, so if that is true, then it's easy to further assume a business associate like CIB is going to get very favourable grades as well. No evidence for it, like I said, just assumption. I just feel that if CIB is sending items into AFA, it can be a bit of a conflict of interest.

Ian

Ian you have a point, but a conflict of interest for either of these, is bad for business and let's face it their not struggling and the hard core collector is.

I often read the same argument why should I a long time, dedicated collector give AFA a second look when I consider myself to know what I own. The fact is if I sold my intire collection on eBay tomorrow and told everyone what condition it was in, most buyers would not believe me. If I sold it AFA graded most would and their inlies the problem, 15 years on AFA are still breathing.

AFA was invented because the internet was, it's evaluation.

 

[Pomse2001]

:shock:

 

[jedisearcher]

But some how AFA and CIB have been put into question over the numbers which are printed on stickers which I think is ironic! That's all.

The only question I personally have with it is that CIB has started selling stuff on ebay. It's commonly assumed a longtime client like Brianstoys gets favourable grades, so if that is true, then it's easy to further assume a business associate like CIB is going to get very favourable grades as well. No evidence for it, like I said, just assumption. I just feel that if CIB is sending items into AFA, it can be a bit of a conflict of interest.

Ian

I'm pretty sure they are brokering items on eBay for sellers who'd like to remain anonymous, rather than selling their own. They definitely provide this service to punters for a fee. I guess it could be a mix of their own and brokered items but we'd never know either way and as they're a commercial business they aren't going to tell us

 

[Lindo]

That would seem odd to me, sellers remain as anonymous as they like, especially on ebay, so why pay someone a fee to sell something that you could sell yourself! As you say they probably do offer this service but to me it wouldn't make viable sense for anyone to take them up on the offer.

 

[Joe]

That would seem odd to me, sellers remain as anonymous as they like, especially on ebay, so why pay someone a fee to sell something that you could sell yourself! As you say they probably do offer this service but to me it wouldn't make viable sense for anyone to take them up on the offer.

I believe the idea behind paying someone to sell your item for you is that a big name dealer could potentially get more for the same item based on reputation/feedback than you could, especially if you are a relatively unknown seller/collector. CIB has been around a long time don't forget, they are an established "name" in the community and the big spenders in this hobby know all about them.

Brians toys quite often sell items on behalf of certain collectors & dealers too, I guess once an item has been sent to AFA arrangements can be made for "loyal" customers especially if the item is going to be sold anyway.

 

[Joe]

http://www.brianstoys.com/vintage-tri-logo-klaatu-miscarded-skiff-outfit-afa-80-c80-b80-f85-on-con-kf-12029480-actual-photo.html#.Vzj9X5ErKUk

Just like this one, on consignment for "KF" which I believe is Karl Flaherty, KFCollectables. Not sure how it all works but most of the stuff he sends to AFA gets sold through Brians..you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours I guess!

 

[olisuds]

As Max and a few others have mentioned CIB and AFA are different entities. Tom is a stand up guy and extremely honest. He's built his success on being respectable and knowledgable and has an extremely large client base of very wealthy individuals willing to drop a great deal of money for what they want, particularly high grade stuff. When he grades and authenticates stuff he completes the authentication then sends the item to AFA for grading and then it's returned to him. From stuff he has authenticated and graded for me in the past i don't believe he gets any preferential treatment on turnaround time or grades.

$20k really is an insane amount for a loose production figure that isn't even that rare comparatively speaking. But I don't think anyone can be pointing fingers at CIB or AFA for the crazy price. $20k wasn't the asking price, this sold openly via auction and it's purely down to buyers having more money than sense or perhaps so much money they don't need worry about sense.

It is a great shame that prices are escalating to this point but unfortunately there are some wealthy people out there that are treating this as an investment opportunity or the chance to fritter away some spare cash on something fun without having to put the time and effort in to it. I'd love to be able to afford to buy a home in central London but unfortunately investor cash has put prices through the roof with plenty of properties remaining empty and unused. Its the same situation. It sucks, it's unfair, but it's life unfortunately :-(

 

[plantman]

As Max and a few others have mentioned CIB and AFA are different entities. Tom is a stand up guy and extremely honest. He's built his success on being respectable and knowledgable and has an extremely large client base of very wealthy individuals willing to drop a great deal of money for what they want, particularly high grade stuff. When he grades and authenticates stuff he completes the authentication then sends the item to AFA for grading and then it's returned to him. From stuff he has authenticated and graded for me in the past i don't believe he gets any preferential treatment on turnaround time or grades.

$20k really is an insane amount for a loose production figure that isn't even that rare comparatively speaking. But I don't think anyone can be pointing fingers at CIB or AFA for the crazy price. $20k wasn't the asking price, this sold openly via auction and it's purely down to buyers having more money than sense or perhaps so much money they don't need worry about sense.

It is a great shame that prices are escalating to this point but unfortunately there are some wealthy people out there that are treating this as an investment opportunity or the chance to fritter away some spare cash on something fun without having to put the time and effort in to it. I'd love to be able to afford to buy a home in central London but unfortunately investor cash has put prices through the roof with plenty of properties remaining empty and unused. Its the same situation. It sucks, it's unfair, but it's life unfortunately :-(

Exactly what is happening, unfortunate for new collectors, hell i remember paying £100 for an afa 80 VC jawa lol, ill just sit back and watch it all unfold, i have 80% of my focus so im fortunate like many others, one thing i cant get my head around is engineering pilots, EP prices are almost pathetic and slightly dubious that lots are appearing and selling for $1000's a production figure with a black smudge from some "reputable source" and bang $2990 on top lol.

 

[olisuds]

Exactly what is happening, unfortunate for new collectors, hell i remember paying £100 for an afa 80 VC jawa lol, ill just sit back and watch it all unfold, i have 80% of my focus so im fortunate like many others, one thing i cant get my head around is engineering pilots, EP prices are almost pathetic and slightly dubious that lots are appearing and selling for $1000's a production figure with a black smudge from some "reputable source" and bang $2990 on top lol.

Yep I really don't get this craze for EPs or even regular undated first shots for that matter and i never have. If you have to explain why something is interesting or if you need a piece of paper to prove it's interesting, it's really not that interesting lol

That whole Jake Repas (Matt Daley) bollocks on facebook just proved how crazy people go for something being labelled an EP without even knowing whether it's genuine or not.

The whole market for EPs just feels incredibly unsafe to me. A child could fake one and the prices are so high that it makes a huge opportunity for fraudulent behaviour if you ask me. I have to say I'm wary of all these EPs that Jordan is turning up and self authenticating. Someone is going to get burnt very soon!

 

[plantman]

Exactly and now crazy prices are being branded around lots are appearing, a "reputable seller" or "genuine kenner source" could be tempted at the thought he could sharpie a few hundred figures and buy a new car...well probably not going to happen but like you say Jordan now has a load.
it does seem weird that a kenner employee would have the insight to keep a production figure with pen on it...doesnt make sense to me but i am a skeptical person by heart.

 

[olisuds]

Being sceptical and asking questions stops you getting burnt. Taking people's word for something without knowing for yourself is asking for trouble.

Whats strange to me is until Gary Bobridge turned up some EPs with the QC lettering on them directly from that kenner employee I had rarely seen lettering (in addition to numbers) on EPs. Now the vast majority of EPs that are turning up all seem to have lettering on them too. Seems strangely coincidental.

 

[Dannywhiteley]

I think the recent trend for EP's comes down to the fact that preproduction stuff is getting harder and harder to come by. 20 years ago you could buy hard copies and wax sculpts relatively easily, 10 years ago first shots. Now that's all dried up and squirrelled away, it's the turn of the EP.

I am also very dubious as these are so incredibly easy to fake, and as said turning up in large numbers. You never really heard too much about these all those years ago and very odd therefore that they were even kept in the first place.