Long Time suspected FAKE baggies scam / seller

Wow- finally, that's much better evidence. I wish this was in the first post. Doesn't look good.

Lindo said:

surely only 3 years ago you would remember what you have sold irrelevant of how many you sell

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Not even 2 1/2 years yet. It sold mid-September 2014. More like 2 years, 4 months. Not nitpicking, but that difference of 8 months makes it even more recent, and harder to believe he'd "forget" selling any.

Ian

OK, this evidence is far more damning than the circumstantial stuff we saw in earlier posts. Although Frank doesn't state they're fake he does question the authenticity, he did also say on the podcast he'd never sold red text baggies. This doesn't look good.

Edd, I feel a bit for you pal, you seem to be have left alone to fight this battle, the issues have been ignited and then the rest have either bolted or never gotten involved.

Thanks Stu, I talked to Grant earlier and said I'm probably the least qualified guy from the investigation group to be talking (not to mention the most argumentative!) but based on what I had seen I felt I had to back up Frank's claims. I assure everyone it had nothing to do with hogging any glory, there is none. Hopefully they will all come forward eventually.

I'm pretty sure frank will be getting evidence together stu. Its very unlikely that he would light the touch paper and run. Im sure we will see frank shed more light on all this in due course.

He also told me that he will be holding competitions every Friday night for trilogos.

Can't wait.

edd_jedi said:

I think it might be a good idea to start another thread with just evidence and no discussion like we did with Toni. There is a **** load of concrete evidence in this thread and sadly it is being buried.

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I could not agree more, I have only just managed to get on & read up to page 18 as I also have another life I have to deal with, not going into unnecessary details, but I can only devote so many hours a day to this & the past few days it's been a great many hours every day, finally got to bed at 3a.m & had to be up early playing catch up, without even reading any further that page 18 (so far but am doing so now) it is obvious that there is a whole **** storm going on aside from the main issues at hand which are diluting the point of this watch out/disclosure thread & I am struggling to keep up to date as well as trying to deal with presenting more of the evidence & contacting other baggie collectors to try to start building up a real picture of how many we are dealing with here, 15 to 20 is a standing joke though.

Here is an image of Jeff ebay account with some of his own baggies shown in the background, funny that his own ESB-b baggie is the real deal yet he can not easily spot those painted ones as being clearly the work of a 3 year old or a deranged lunatic on acid -

By the way, I want to clarify I began digging for the red bag sale yesterday and even posted the worth point link of the turbo yesterday asking a question. I don't know Jeff nor do I collect baggies aside from a handful of common kenner mail away figures. I do know Frank, not close friends or anything but I know him since I help moderate on TIG. Does this make me bias? I would like to think I look at this event with unbiased eyes but regardless of whether you think my comments have been favorable or not to one party the last post I made is all black and white. The dates are there. Outright saying they are fake did not happen in that email at least using that wording, however saying their authenticity is questionable is another way of saying fake or possible fake (at least in my mind). I don't hang out on swfuk much and likely won't be around much beyond being a reader like I have been, but I felt compelled to come in this thread and address the issues I have.


I do think this could have been handled better, I do not think the way it was handled was wrong to the extent that Frank bashing was needed, I do not know that we can 100% say this individual made these (same as we have no picture of Toni ironing his cards) but he obviously is linked to the sale of them. Via his own words to the podcast he is selling his collection overage yet we see a red text baggie purchased on eBay that was offered to Frank a couple of months later, he says he never sold one with red text yet we find feedback for it and have a sale date well after he was told their authenticity is questionable, we have watchout threads on rs and here dating back years and yet knowing he had fakes prior he was so careless as to not look through the rest of his stock and see if he had others, now we have someone who purchased touched up figures in bags that they shouldn't be in, a pbp figure in a bag it shouldn't be in, this just keeps compiling.

I also don't think it is fair to bash the podcast team. Maybe it could have been done a slight bit better with questions being placed grom the original team who began this, but given that Jeff does not desire to come to this platform I am glad they did the interview as it allowed his side to be told. In fairness it did come across as pro Jeff but that's because really what can be gained from a single line of questioning? I mean regardless of which question they asked the questions were the same: did you do.....? And of course we would expect the person to say no. I said that early on in one of my initial posts. Jeff gains by denying and only loses by admitting. That said, I feel that some sort of animosity has been shown towards the podcast team and I think that is a tad uncalled for. They were trying to help in the best way they could.

I also feel animosity has been shown towards Frank and that is uncalled for. He and this team are just trying to help collectors not get their money taken on an item that is not legitimate.

At the end of the day I hope those who are part of our collector community can bury the hatchet and forget harsh words and see we are all on the same side.

Caswellbot said:

I'm pretty sure frank will be getting evidence together stu. Its very unlikely that he would light the touch paper and run. Im sure we will see frank shed more light on all this in due course.

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Should have said Frank has been on and MomMike (apologies don't know you're name) more the rest, hasn't been much support

So, the conclusion is..........

trappedtexan said:

I also don't think it is fair to bash the podcast team. Maybe it could have been done a slight bit better with questions being placed grom the original team who began this, but given that Jeff does not desire to come to this platform I am glad they did the interview as it allowed his side to be told. In fairness it did come across as pro Jeff but that's because really what can be gained from a single line of questioning? I mean regardless of which question they asked the questions were the same: did you do.....? And of course we would expect the person to say no. I said that early on in one of my initial posts. Jeff gains by denying and only loses by admitting. That said, I feel that some sort of animosity has been shown towards the podcast team and I think that is a tad uncalled for. They were trying to help in the best way they could.

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thanks for that. Presenting a side and taking a side are two different things. We felt that we could help by getting a Jeff response as thats what he appeared up for and we felt we could get it out there faster than he would actually respond here (like Frank he also has a life he needs to attend to). You have heard my entire conversation with Jeff (outside of FF which was "how much for one of those Dianoga's" )

Just for the record I am not pro jeff. I am pro collector and want anyone who has been missold a fake (or however you want to say it) to get their money back. That's where I am.

Stuart Skinner said:

Edd, I feel a bit for you pal, you seem to be have left alone to fight this battle, the issues have been ignited and then the rest have either bolted or never gotten involved.

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My thoughts too.

Richard_H said:

That's fine I understand what you're saying. Not saying we got it right perfectly. Just clarifying our position.

I don't want to waste time defending my/our position any more I think it's been stated enough.

If the evidence was better at the start then you'd have seen a different reaction I'm sure. Let's concentrate on getting the facts out. I'm sure there's a lot more to come and im sure there'll be a part two to the podcast hence the title of the first one.

Our next regular episode will not have any reference to these events.

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There is a lot more to come out, but bear in mind this takes time to gather, not like we could ask everyone before this broke without good reason for asking for evidence in the way of screenshots of buys & refunds & the photos of the suspected baggies - it's coming, but there are only so many hours in a day, 3 of the team are quite unwell at the moment - 1 going to A&E today,once just out of hospital & another away on holiday, got a stinking cold myself & getting things together as rapidly as possible, having to wade through the inane ramblings & **** slinging on here to make sure I catch everything I need to is slowing things down a lot as well, was the TT situation resolved in a day - no, so try to be patient, more will be forthcoming as more is gone through & other collectors now contacted to come forward.

I am still only up to page 20 as I am madly also trying to keep up with a flood of PM's both here & on FB, not sure if it's been covered in any of the pages between 20 & here, but these were not Just Jeff's personal collection from years back he is selling off, I have several photos in emails from Jeff with bulk lots he has just bought & got from the states,I will take screen shots of & post them up here, he is & has always been an active buyer, buying to sell on not to keep for the most part I gather, bear in mind I have hundreds of pages of emails spanning several years to go through to extract the information from as well as cross checking mine & his feedack & also my paypal history to confirm, this takes time.

Is there any way of digging back and finding out who sold Jeff the red text baggie? It helps with the supposition that he's passing these on (deliberately or otherwise), as opposed to making them himself.

Stuart Skinner said:

OK, this evidence is far more damning than the circumstantial stuff we saw in earlier posts. Although Frank doesn't state they're fake he does question the authenticity, he did also say on the podcast he'd never sold red text baggies. This doesn't look good.

Edd, I feel a bit for you pal, you seem to be have left alone to fight this battle, the issues have been ignited and then the rest have either bolted or never gotten involved.

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And momike but apart from that why have all the otthers been quiet ?

jedisearcher said:

Is there any way of digging back and finding out who sold Jeff the red text baggie? It helps with the supposition that he's passing these on (deliberately or otherwise), as opposed to making them himself.

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Here is a Prune Face, same baggie, sold same date, same red text.

http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/vintage-star-wars-1983-rotj-prune-440530934

jedisearcher said:

Is there any way of digging back and finding out who sold Jeff the red text baggie? It helps with the supposition that he's passing these on (deliberately or otherwise), as opposed to making them himself.

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I am still looking but have yet to find the logray being sold prior to the sale Jeff had. The pictures sent to Frank of red text baggie we see a teebo, prune face, and one opened empty baggie. I did find where Jeff had bought the teebo, or presumably if it is the same figure.

Again though, I don't think we will ever be able to say he is making them 100%. I suggest the investigation team concede on this point. Short of confession and video/pics of him putting them together we can not say he is manufacturing these.

What we can say is he knew they were not correct and had "questionable authenticity" and yet sold them, he has sold many others that are incorrect and has known for at least two to three years his stock contained fakes since watchout threads on rs and here date back that far.

He says he is a collector and seller but his selling some of the things I have seen with his knowledge base supposedly being a baggie collector would be akin to any carded collector selling a moc figure that had a terrible Photoshop pic on the front and is completly noticeable to even a novice collector. I mean these kenner logo ones don't even look painted as much as if someone used one of those white out pins to color the white.

I may have missed it on the podcast but was any indication given by Jeff as to where he got the meccano baggies with red stickers came from?

It's really sad to read all this. Such a shame for the hobby.

Thanks trappedtexan.

Anyone got access to or know someone who could check the star wars tracker app thing for Teebo or Prune Face baggies? I'm not sure whether it shows the seller id but it only sold in 2013 so I'd have thought there's a small chance the app picked up the sale in its early days. It's possible the red text baggies only came from one place though, whereas the other suspect ones may have come from another source,