Long Time suspected FAKE baggies scam / seller

[Grant_C]

Wow- finally, that's much better evidence. I wish this was in the first post. Doesn't look good.

 

[Ian_C]

surely only 3 years ago you would remember what you have sold irrelevant of how many you sell

Not even 2 1/2 years yet. It sold mid-September 2014. More like 2 years, 4 months. Not nitpicking, but that difference of 8 months makes it even more recent, and harder to believe he'd "forget" selling any.

Ian

 

[Stuart Skinner]

OK, this evidence is far more damning than the circumstantial stuff we saw in earlier posts. Although Frank doesn't state they're fake he does question the authenticity, he did also say on the podcast he'd never sold red text baggies. This doesn't look good.

Edd, I feel a bit for you pal, you seem to be have left alone to fight this battle, the issues have been ignited and then the rest have either bolted or never gotten involved.

 

[edd_jedi]

Thanks Stu, I talked to Grant earlier and said I'm probably the least qualified guy from the investigation group to be talking (not to mention the most argumentative!) but based on what I had seen I felt I had to back up Frank's claims. I assure everyone it had nothing to do with hogging any glory, there is none. Hopefully they will all come forward eventually.

 

[Caswellbot]

I'm pretty sure frank will be getting evidence together stu. Its very unlikely that he would light the touch paper and run. Im sure we will see frank shed more light on all this in due course.

 

[Grant_C]

He also told me that he will be holding competitions every Friday night for trilogos.

Can't wait.

 

[Frunkstar]

I think it might be a good idea to start another thread with just evidence and no discussion like we did with Toni. There is a **** load of concrete evidence in this thread and sadly it is being buried.

I could not agree more, I have only just managed to get on & read up to page 18 as I also have another life I have to deal with, not going into unnecessary details, but I can only devote so many hours a day to this & the past few days it's been a great many hours every day, finally got to bed at 3a.m & had to be up early playing catch up, without even reading any further that page 18 (so far but am doing so now) it is obvious that there is a whole **** storm going on aside from the main issues at hand which are diluting the point of this watch out/disclosure thread & I am struggling to keep up to date as well as trying to deal with presenting more of the evidence & contacting other baggie collectors to try to start building up a real picture of how many we are dealing with here, 15 to 20 is a standing joke though.

Here is an image of Jeff ebay account with some of his own baggies shown in the background, funny that his own ESB-b baggie is the real deal yet he can not easily spot those painted ones as being clearly the work of a 3 year old or a deranged lunatic on acid -

 

[trappedtexan]

By the way, I want to clarify I began digging for the red bag sale yesterday and even posted the worth point link of the turbo yesterday asking a question. I don't know Jeff nor do I collect baggies aside from a handful of common kenner mail away figures. I do know Frank, not close friends or anything but I know him since I help moderate on TIG. Does this make me bias? I would like to think I look at this event with unbiased eyes but regardless of whether you think my comments have been favorable or not to one party the last post I made is all black and white. The dates are there. Outright saying they are fake did not happen in that email at least using that wording, however saying their authenticity is questionable is another way of saying fake or possible fake (at least in my mind). I don't hang out on swfuk much and likely won't be around much beyond being a reader like I have been, but I felt compelled to come in this thread and address the issues I have.


I do think this could have been handled better, I do not think the way it was handled was wrong to the extent that Frank bashing was needed, I do not know that we can 100% say this individual made these (same as we have no picture of Toni ironing his cards) but he obviously is linked to the sale of them. Via his own words to the podcast he is selling his collection overage yet we see a red text baggie purchased on eBay that was offered to Frank a couple of months later, he says he never sold one with red text yet we find feedback for it and have a sale date well after he was told their authenticity is questionable, we have watchout threads on rs and here dating back years and yet knowing he had fakes prior he was so careless as to not look through the rest of his stock and see if he had others, now we have someone who purchased touched up figures in bags that they shouldn't be in, a pbp figure in a bag it shouldn't be in, this just keeps compiling.

I also don't think it is fair to bash the podcast team. Maybe it could have been done a slight bit better with questions being placed grom the original team who began this, but given that Jeff does not desire to come to this platform I am glad they did the interview as it allowed his side to be told. In fairness it did come across as pro Jeff but that's because really what can be gained from a single line of questioning? I mean regardless of which question they asked the questions were the same: did you do.....? And of course we would expect the person to say no. I said that early on in one of my initial posts. Jeff gains by denying and only loses by admitting. That said, I feel that some sort of animosity has been shown towards the podcast team and I think that is a tad uncalled for. They were trying to help in the best way they could.

I also feel animosity has been shown towards Frank and that is uncalled for. He and this team are just trying to help collectors not get their money taken on an item that is not legitimate.

At the end of the day I hope those who are part of our collector community can bury the hatchet and forget harsh words and see we are all on the same side.

 

[Stuart Skinner]

I'm pretty sure frank will be getting evidence together stu. Its very unlikely that he would light the touch paper and run. Im sure we will see frank shed more light on all this in due course.

Should have said Frank has been on and MomMike (apologies don't know you're name) more the rest, hasn't been much support

 

[Andreg]

So, the conclusion is..........

 

[naughtyjedi]

I also don't think it is fair to bash the podcast team. Maybe it could have been done a slight bit better with questions being placed grom the original team who began this, but given that Jeff does not desire to come to this platform I am glad they did the interview as it allowed his side to be told. In fairness it did come across as pro Jeff but that's because really what can be gained from a single line of questioning? I mean regardless of which question they asked the questions were the same: did you do.....? And of course we would expect the person to say no. I said that early on in one of my initial posts. Jeff gains by denying and only loses by admitting. That said, I feel that some sort of animosity has been shown towards the podcast team and I think that is a tad uncalled for. They were trying to help in the best way they could.

thanks for that. Presenting a side and taking a side are two different things. We felt that we could help by getting a Jeff response as thats what he appeared up for and we felt we could get it out there faster than he would actually respond here (like Frank he also has a life he needs to attend to). You have heard my entire conversation with Jeff (outside of FF which was "how much for one of those Dianoga's" )

Just for the record I am not pro jeff. I am pro collector and want anyone who has been missold a fake (or however you want to say it) to get their money back. That's where I am.

 

[SublevelStudios]

Edd, I feel a bit for you pal, you seem to be have left alone to fight this battle, the issues have been ignited and then the rest have either bolted or never gotten involved.

My thoughts too.

 

[Frunkstar]

That's fine I understand what you're saying. Not saying we got it right perfectly. Just clarifying our position.

I don't want to waste time defending my/our position any more I think it's been stated enough.

If the evidence was better at the start then you'd have seen a different reaction I'm sure. Let's concentrate on getting the facts out. I'm sure there's a lot more to come and im sure there'll be a part two to the podcast hence the title of the first one.

Our next regular episode will not have any reference to these events.

There is a lot more to come out, but bear in mind this takes time to gather, not like we could ask everyone before this broke without good reason for asking for evidence in the way of screenshots of buys & refunds & the photos of the suspected baggies - it's coming, but there are only so many hours in a day, 3 of the team are quite unwell at the moment - 1 going to A&E today,once just out of hospital & another away on holiday, got a stinking cold myself & getting things together as rapidly as possible, having to wade through the inane ramblings & **** slinging on here to make sure I catch everything I need to is slowing things down a lot as well, was the TT situation resolved in a day - no, so try to be patient, more will be forthcoming as more is gone through & other collectors now contacted to come forward.

I am still only up to page 20 as I am madly also trying to keep up with a flood of PM's both here & on FB, not sure if it's been covered in any of the pages between 20 & here, but these were not Just Jeff's personal collection from years back he is selling off, I have several photos in emails from Jeff with bulk lots he has just bought & got from the states,I will take screen shots of & post them up here, he is & has always been an active buyer, buying to sell on not to keep for the most part I gather, bear in mind I have hundreds of pages of emails spanning several years to go through to extract the information from as well as cross checking mine & his feedack & also my paypal history to confirm, this takes time.

 

[jedisearcher]

Is there any way of digging back and finding out who sold Jeff the red text baggie? It helps with the supposition that he's passing these on (deliberately or otherwise), as opposed to making them himself.

 

[lee gray]

OK, this evidence is far more damning than the circumstantial stuff we saw in earlier posts. Although Frank doesn't state they're fake he does question the authenticity, he did also say on the podcast he'd never sold red text baggies. This doesn't look good.

Edd, I feel a bit for you pal, you seem to be have left alone to fight this battle, the issues have been ignited and then the rest have either bolted or never gotten involved.

And momike but apart from that why have all the otthers been quiet ?

 

[jedisearcher]

Is there any way of digging back and finding out who sold Jeff the red text baggie? It helps with the supposition that he's passing these on (deliberately or otherwise), as opposed to making them himself.

Here is a Prune Face, same baggie, sold same date, same red text.

http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/vintage-star-wars-1983-rotj-prune-440530934

 

[trappedtexan]

Is there any way of digging back and finding out who sold Jeff the red text baggie? It helps with the supposition that he's passing these on (deliberately or otherwise), as opposed to making them himself.

I am still looking but have yet to find the logray being sold prior to the sale Jeff had. The pictures sent to Frank of red text baggie we see a teebo, prune face, and one opened empty baggie. I did find where Jeff had bought the teebo, or presumably if it is the same figure.

Again though, I don't think we will ever be able to say he is making them 100%. I suggest the investigation team concede on this point. Short of confession and video/pics of him putting them together we can not say he is manufacturing these.

What we can say is he knew they were not correct and had "questionable authenticity" and yet sold them, he has sold many others that are incorrect and has known for at least two to three years his stock contained fakes since watchout threads on rs and here date back that far.

He says he is a collector and seller but his selling some of the things I have seen with his knowledge base supposedly being a baggie collector would be akin to any carded collector selling a moc figure that had a terrible Photoshop pic on the front and is completly noticeable to even a novice collector. I mean these kenner logo ones don't even look painted as much as if someone used one of those white out pins to color the white.

 

[Caswellbot]

I may have missed it on the podcast but was any indication given by Jeff as to where he got the meccano baggies with red stickers came from?

 

[TrisCompany]

It's really sad to read all this. Such a shame for the hobby.

 

[jedisearcher]

Thanks trappedtexan.

Anyone got access to or know someone who could check the star wars tracker app thing for Teebo or Prune Face baggies? I'm not sure whether it shows the seller id but it only sold in 2013 so I'd have thought there's a small chance the app picked up the sale in its early days. It's possible the red text baggies only came from one place though, whereas the other suspect ones may have come from another source,

 

[Frunkstar]

I've wanted to comment earlier but stuck at work and unable to.

Yes, this was released whilst one of Jeff's biggest friends in the community was knowingly out of the country and on holiday. Maybe this was a shrewd chess play move, maybe it was a coincidence?

That was the one thing over everything else I was wondering about myself and maybe thats why the initial post was rushed to get it out there quick while his friend was away even though I dont know who this guy is as only hear hes in las vegas unless i missed his name.

Everyone wants to be right and i know some might be annoying or wind ups, i re read some of mine and sounded like a prick but i really dont think name calling to others is a adult way of dealing with things.

I actually contacted Marc H to ask him about the situation via FB & had no idea he was out of the country until he informed me by way of return reply, it's was purely by chance, I also regard Marc as a good online buddy, I also sent him the link to this so he was fully aware of it.

 

[Frunkstar]

Just to be clear these two pieces came from Jeff Glanville. He said (Its a real sham they have been removed from the baggies as I would of offered you a refund on return.)
If the baggies are fake and the figures have been tampered with, what does it matter that they are not in the baggies?

I have further findings & question marks about these myself & will be adding some of it asap for everyone's consideration.

BTW still only on page 22 or something trying to digest everything in detail

 

[Frunkstar]

I think Marty's post was waiting to be approved hence he didn't follow up with more info at the time.

Then it all got lost amongst the arguing about terminology and "the way it was handled"

Indeed it was Oil - where's the like button :lol:

 

[Frunkstar]

May 2013 Teebo is purchased on ebay presumably by Jeff
bought teebo.PNG

August 2013 send frank a picture with the logray baggie, a pruneface baggie, and an empty baggie and offers them to him. Frank does not say outright they are fake but says that no star wars toys have been confirmed to be in these and they are from strawberry shortcake line as well as saying their authenticity is questionable.

email to frank.PNG
baggies frank saw.PNG

September 2014 Sold the logray baggie with red text on ebay This baggie was not seen prior, but this sale is after Frank has said these baggies are questionable and can not be confirmed

sold logray.PNG

Just a few things I have put together so far by doing my own digging. I am presuming the teebos are the saem as they look the same to me, but the purchase of the teebo is irrelevant anyway since the sale of the logray is after the email to frank is where the main point is.

Indeed same baggies same text & yes all I know they are from a different toyline entirely, no star wars figures have ever been known or are ever likely to be in this kind of baggies, the only known example of a red text star wars is in a Macau red text baggie which is nothing like this thype & also stupidly rare.

I know there is no date to confirm on the same of the others, but I know it was many months after I confirmed via email that they were not right,I assumed at the time Jeff would just open them & discard the baggies & as said had it not been for those red baggies being sold on after me informing him, I may never have looked in to Jeff's sales more closely or scrutinized the ones I had bought from him previously, several of which I still have including one of the 3 SW-a lando's I know he has sold in the past could of years, that alone was a point that had my alarm bells ringing like mad.

You see the lando SW-a baggies is insanely rare, it was only ever issued for the ESB toy fair mock up stand of which maybe 10 or 20 at the most I would say were produced, of those only the ones actually used for the toy fair were suspected to have come with these SW-a baggies, all the others which were issued to salesmen as promo samples (if I do understand this correctly) came with the more readily available ESB-c baggies, so in essence there should theoretically only ever have been about half a dozen of them produced, so 3 to go through one persons seller account in a matter of a couple of years & me already owning one did not make a lot of sense to me.

I decided to bit on the one he had listed on open auction on ebay & I won it at a really fair price, I was delighted as it was an upgrade for the one I had already, sadly that one I had already has a little tear in the baggies, it's taken me many years to put the full set of these 6 SW-a baggies together for the mock up stand, the huge loss for me above anything else it the one with thee tear I sold to a collecting buddy in Holland is legit, on close inspection the one I got is a fake, so now the set I worked one for many years is again incomplete with the likelihood of ever finding another genuine example is near impossible, I am saying all this as it's one good example of how a refund just does not cut it, yes I should have spotted this, but at the time I had a lot on & just put it on a shelf until well after I sold the other I had one by which time it's to late.

Here is the genuine one I sold on -



This is the one I got from Jeff, I no doubt have email conformation of the sale as well as PP info -

There is simple no righting this as the set equates to thousands of pounds & many years years invested hunting ruined by one of the fakes.

I have as said all other 5 for the set as well as many special offer vehicles that came with SW-a baggies, every one was the same text type all from known collectors & not a single one with this terrible blotchy white paint application, I am more than happy to post pictures of multiples or all of them as a comparison if needed

 

[Frunkstar]

Is it not within the realms of probability that these could have been issued from some factory or another in these red text baggies? For whatever reason?

With all due respect to Frank, not everyting is known or indeed catalogued - even in 2016 new discoveries are made.

So is there a chance they could be legit from BITD or are we saying categorically that these do not and should not exist?

They do not exist, the closest know examples I think from Kenner were the ones for the Mask like & still not star wars related -

 

[lee gray]

To say at the very least some dodgy things have been done by Jeff and whether on a small or large scale its still too much.

I really didnt think though that such such a thread would have so many people being divided and good friends arguing/disagreeing with eachother.

Im sure that wasnt the intention. I mean with facts then everyone should be travelling on the same journey.

 

[Joe]

I've been trying to keep up best I can with all of this while on holiday but haven't had the time to sit down and reply until now.

I want to say a quick thanks to Frank for all his hard work within the baggie collecting world and for trying his best to spearhead this investigation and bring it to peoples attention.

I've read through most of the posts and comments on SWF. Its been an interesting read to say the least. While some people have raised fair points and criticisms I have to say that I was quite shocked at the amount of people posting who were seemingly more worried about this dealers reputation taking a beating than the fact that they had just found out that he's been selling fakes for a period of years!

As has been said by others, outing a bad seller or dodgy community member without contacting them first isn't a new thing so I'm not sure why that's such an issue although I am in agreement that the wording of Franks initial post wasn't well thought out.


The problem here is that Jeff and the legitimacy of some of the baggies he sells has come up in conversation many times before now, mostly in private but there have been a few watch out threads too. I started one a few years ago myself (its been linked several times now) and instead of a "thanks for the heads up" response that one might expect after warning about fake items I had a load of people say what a good seller he was! :roll:

Lets just be clear on something, Jeff HAS been made aware of dodgy items in the past. Whether that was via returns on ebay or through collector opinion/input its not like he thought everything he sold up until now was legit and this is all new to him, he's known for years that people have raised some concerns because they've done so directly with him!

Its worth noting that Frank has actually defended Jeff in the past and/or given him the benefit of the doubt too, so this is nothing personal. I think when the volume of fakes increased and it became apparent that they all traced back to Jeff, frustration set in and an urge to warn the community become Franks number one priority..and here we are.

Sure, you can blame Frank for the wrong choice of words in his original post, you can blame him for the way he presented the evidence, you can even blame him for jumping the gun or putting a "good bloke" like Jeff in the firing line but at some point you have to stop and think.. If there weren't people like Frank out there, people that cared so much about a particular area of our great hobby that they would put their own reputation (and in this case their own collection..that's the sound of the baggie market collapsing btw) on the line just to stop others falling foul of some sellers counterfeit items, then every single one of you would be up **** creek without a paddle. Totally unaware of the legitimacy of the items in your own collection, proudly displaying your billy boy samples, pristine Toni mocs..or some of Jeff's Baggies.


If it had only been one dodgy item returned or one issue raised we wouldn't be here doing this 25+ pages later but its clearly not and it includes all kinds of bagged variations from Kenner to palitoy and even Meccano's.

Do I think he's making the counterfeit baggies himself? Honestly I'm still undecided and realistically its unlikely that we will ever know but even if he isn't the guy cranking these out he IS still the one selling them. These have been sent out to unsuspecting buyers and collectors around the world for a good few years and as a seasoned collector/dealer he has to know what he's selling, end of. There is no excuse for passing on that many dodgy figures, none whatsoever..so please don't try to find one for him just because you've shared a smile and a hello with him at a convention.


I'm glad to see more evidence being found and brought into the thread, especially by those who are using their time to investigate his past sales and listings on worthpoint etc.

At this point it's safe to say that he's guilty of selling fakes. He's also guilty of selling on fakes that he's been told weren't quite right and now hes guilty of telling few white lies about what he's sold or hasn't sold.. However this came out, I'm glad it did and I sincerely hope every single baggie collector is reading this and taking note.

 

[Frunkstar]

OK, this evidence is far more damning than the circumstantial stuff we saw in earlier posts. Although Frank doesn't state they're fake he does question the authenticity, he did also say on the podcast he'd never sold red text baggies. This doesn't look good.

Edd, I feel a bit for you pal, you seem to be have left alone to fight this battle, the issues have been ignited and then the rest have either bolted or never gotten involved.

And momike but apart from that why have all the otthers been quiet ?

not all of them have an account, some were in the group for specifics like a french expert to confirm our thoughts on the red sticker meccano baggies, I would hope soon as they are all able they will say what they can,not everyone in the investigations group had a lot to input, but like I said Stepene was brought in to confirm the red sticker baggies, Andy Raymond (MP expert IMO) was asked to come on to take a look at various Kenner examples etc etc, not everyone has had a huge role in this much like Edd who I feel for deeply as he has been doing all he can to keep things on a level playing field in my & others absence & has been getting a right good ear bending from finestcomics for his effort, whilst on the subject of Joe I think it is ?? finestcomics - repainted touched up / re-sealed etc in the baggie world IME it all = fake & seriously frown'd upon & never accepted unlike some other hobbies

 

[trappedtexan]

Guys I have looked through thousands of pics via worth point searching terms like logray baggie, logray bagged, vintage logray bag, etc... I can not find the red text bag being sold prior to where Jeff sold it. Does that mean it wasn't sold via eBay? No, it is possible it predates or maybe it was a bad listing or something. I am just putting this out here so you know I tried and am done searching. It's not a major key factor where he got the logray anyhow as the main point was he recieved it at some point and sold it after knowing that baggie is questionable in authenticity.

 

[Richard_H]

Thanks I appreciate your efforts