Resealed figure discovery debate - G.Kurtz Palitoy VC Jawa.

[**Delboy75**]

I know Chris same here lol.

Anyway, more german 45 backs, with wear and more importantly with price stickers.

PHOTOS DELETED.

 

[Grant_C]

Im getting visions of Arthur Daley from minder! Rolling up a shutter to reveal a warehouse full of star wars...

:lol:

Chris- I have this song in my head for 2 days:

 

[**Delboy75**]

Just realised I quickly whipped these pics off the net so don't really have the rights to put them on here so I will take them off in a bit once a few people have seen that german 45 backs do exist.

 

[Caswellbot]

Lol. Quality grant!

 

[edd_jedi]

Think of it a different way. If somebody found a stash of flat packed X Wing boxes, unused cardboard inserts and mint unused X Wing vehicles, then assembled them themselves and used sellotape to seal the boxes, would they be considered 'real' and if not how could it be proved anyway? All the materials are original.

I don't know Tony personally and am not sticking up for him, and based on this thread I'm leaning towards at least the majority of his stock being 'factory' carded. I'm just trying to get across the point that there is no real substance to this 'revelation', we're talking about attaching plastic to cardboard, it's not rocket science. They could have bee made any time between 1980 and today and nobody would be able to tell the difference unless they were there.

 

[_Lee_]

Delboy,

There is no definate sign they are German backs without seeing the German text on the back of the card.They could just be normal UK Palitoys sold in Germany-that did happen aswell.Price tags on a cardback mean nothing in this case,unless it has the German text on the rear.

 

[Joe]

Think of it a different way. If somebody found a stash of flat packed X Wing boxes, unused cardboard inserts and mint unused X Wing vehicles, then assembled them themselves and used sellotape to seal the boxes, would they be considered 'real' and if not how could it be proved anyway? All the materials are original.

I don't know Tony personally and am not sticking up for him, and based on this thread I'm leaning towards at least the majority of his stock being 'factory' carded. I'm just trying to get across the point that there is no real substance to this 'revelation', we're talking about attaching plastic to cardboard, it's not rocket science. They could have bee made any time between 1980 and today and nobody would be able to tell the difference unless they were there.

The fact that you couldn't tell the difference wouldn't make it right. Although it does raise the question, if you could never tell would it ever matter?

I know what you are trying to say Edd I just think you have to look at it from the point of view of it being true, if it were true it would be a revelation, it would be wrong and I'm pretty sure for everyone who ever bought one it would matter.

 

[**Delboy75**]

Delboy,

There is no definate sign they are German backs without seeing the German text on the back of the card.They could just be normal UK Palitoys sold in Germany-that did happen aswell.Price tags on a cardback mean nothing in this case,unless it has the German text on the rear.

Well I took them from a german site titled German ESB General Mills 45-Back Cards: (Deutsche ESB Figuren)
I think were pretty safe they are 45 backs.

Anyway I know for a fact Jason (Mr palitoy not joiner) has used german 45 cardbacks so hopefully he will share the pics.

Your point was very valid tho and something I should of stated before.

I will post a pic of the reverse of my power droid in a minute once ive found it.
It was a bit of a dog but I got it cheap and not from Toni.

 

[Joe]

Not that I am particularly fond of Todd DeMartino (and he's not exactly my biggest fan either), I did find this interesting quote from him in an old RS thread:

Jason Joiner looked me in the eye back in the early 90's at FX in Orlando and Toyrific in NY and said that he made them among other things (proto R2, props, etc.).

He was referring to the Grey Limbed Snowtroopers.

Read into that what you will, I find it both telling and a bit confusing tbh. Todd seems to have known that Joiner was selling fakes in the 90's at US conventions yet he still went ahead and bought those Yak Mailers from him..hmm very strange (he still believes those Yak baggies/mailers are real yet seems adamant that everything else Jason had for sale was fake).

really Joe " i lookked him in the eye at two different events and said ?" get real this guys a nutter

Joe you said that you might come back to me with some real points to respond to , i said if it was for a indervigal item i would be happy to respond to that .

you are now digging up crazy peoples random trash of things i have never said or done with people i have not met sorry i am done on this its a wast of my time.

look if you or anyone has any real points that relate to a real situation involved a real items that i have sold then i will be happy to respond , i am not going to even bother with rubbish like this above its trash and just someone badmouthing me and not even doing it in a convinsing way, would you bother to even responfd if it was you Joe ?

if anyone has any real questions then maybe its just best to Email me at Jason@[email protected]

one last point everyone seems to have missed , has anyone ever bought any German cards from anywhere else that did not originate from Toni ? its just something i wanted to know from you all ?

you all know where to reach me now , j

Is that it Jason?

Actually, I DID give you an example of a prop story that I came across, it's quite specific and I would love to hear your side of the story.. http://www.originalprop.com/blog/2007/05/06/elstree-props-jason-joiner-and-the-20000-superman-mold-on-ebay/

There it is again if you missed it, personally I think you chose to ignore it but hey what do I know.

I was pretty convinced that it wouldn't be long before you decided to leave the forum, I think considering your reputation most people are being civil with you, even Toni who you just set up for a HUGE fall didn't swear at you or talk to you like a piece of **** yet you seem to be running away because I can't come up with specific incidents? Every time I do bring some evidence to the table or an account of something from someone who met you, you dismiss it without going into detail, get angry or just ignore it..

 

[Richard_H]

I agree with that point it has all been very civil on here and cases for both sides have been politely noted.

 

[**Delboy75**]

This was not purchased from Toni but i guess it possibly was at some point in the past but thought I'd include it as it has obvious wear and does not look like it has always been in the hand of a collector.

 

[aussiejames]

 

[**Delboy75**]

Thanks James.

Im going to go ahead now and delete the ones i used as i don't want anyone moaning at Edd.

 

[Lee Bullock]

I think the fact that double stem seals on used cardbacks that are unlikely to be sourced from Toni that match the shape and configuration of Toni's stuff lends definite weight to Toni's corner in my opinion. This is the key - cards that are consistent in bubble seals from different sources. Nothing is certain yet - and its would be nice if Toni could weigh in on this with a little more background. I would also be interested as to what other long term dealers think on this - Jim, David Oliver et al. If this is a fabrication I am quite disturbed why such a character assassination has occurred that amounts to libel with definite financial and reputation consequences to Toni. Again I hazard this is over by a long chalk...

 

[spoons]

Well that pretty much proves that Toni is not the only source of German cards - now for some sealed ones

 

[**Delboy75**]

spoons, did you miss the pics I briefly put up?
Sealed ones with german price tags.

 

[spoons]

spoons, did you miss the pics I briefly put up?
Sealed ones with german price tags.

I missed those Del - I presume from Lee's post that they were double stemmed then?

In which case that, Jim Stevenson's memory and the issues raised with the cost of sealing would seem to put Toni in the clear. If Jason has made all this up he's a spiteful one, as well as having a very dubious rep.

Still curious about those holes on my stormy though

 

[tiefighterboy]

To get tooling/fixture made plus the machine...no Idea back then...I would suspect this would have been at least a $10,000 investment and this does not include the labor and housing. Maybe you could have bought a machine used and somehow either made makeshift tooling or bought it direct from Palitoy (I doubt), but you would still be faced with half that amount. The quality of these seals is dead on, so this was not an amateur attempt, if it ever happened at all. Maybe the cards are the ones we see commonly called proofs...but that is not my area of expertise.

there is no tooling needed the bubbles were already there as was most other things , all you needed to do was find a way to attach the bubbles to the cards .

it was told to me many years a go that a hot ion tipe device and a small waited metal have vice could achieve the result needed, and i was told this could costs as little as around £300 to have this made and the rest of the thing needed is labour of putting the parts together.

its not hard if you think about it you are heatign the plastic and pushing the plasitc tight to the card ?

where there is a will there is a way i think the old saying gos


if no one wants to berleaves thats fine then be happy

i am off

It takes tooling set to the size of the bubble. A simple hot iron would produce nothing. If it were that simple (or cheap)....I think Mr. Poon and many others would be sealing repro bubbles non-stop,

 

[**Delboy75**]

Yes mate I will put them up for you.

Michifromhell, has actually just pm'd me and said the imperial commander was his and definitely has been nowhere near toni.

and they are definitely german 45 bks not palitoy.

Those holes you mention, are they more like shallow dimples than actual holes down to the cardback as mine had them too, a twin stem stormie, actually I still have a pic.

 

[tiefighterboy]

Actual Tooling shown here and process at the 25 mark shown here....I do not think this comes cheap.

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