When you leave a deposit and back out should you be refunded

[Dark Sith Lord]

Hi guys.

I am sure many of you guys have read this thread on RS

http://forum.rebelscum.com/t1086463/

I throught i would start a thread to discuss it on here.

IMO this is a tough one

When you leave a deposit you are making your intentions that you want the item badly clear.
So surely it is not right regardless of the reasons that the seller should keep the deposited amount in this case $300

What do you think guys?

 

[TwistedMetal]

If you put a down payment down and then back out, tbh I feel you should lose that money, however his wouldn't be the case with me or many of us I'm sure, I'm a fair chap and would feel bad not too give him his money back.

 

[JuniorChubb]

Its an interesting read, and a difficult situation...

In my eyes if you are dealing with someone you know (beyond a business level) you should expect some of (if not all) your money back. However if you only know this person as a customer you have no right to ask for your money back, you called it on and let the seller down big time. The personal events in this situation do call for sympathy, but life's a bitch...

If it was someone on here I would expect a part/full refund and I would offer a full refund if the item was mine to sell. On Ebay though I wouldn't expect jack...

 

[aussiejames]

A deposit is legally implied as non refundable. The buyer in the RS situation refered to it as a down payment- down payment to me is for a substantial purchase ie. car or house. ( & a set of UDE coins would buy a car) I think everyone agrees morally we'd like to see the guy get his money back.
It gets complicated with a middle man involved. Let's say the owner of the set now sells it for less money than the originally agreed price, is the middleman responsible for the loss? Has the middleman made an untangible loss? (the owner will never deal with him again & said middleman looses all future brokerage fees from possible further sales) I'm assuming the owner is a big, private collector & never deals directly with the 'public'
Answering Liam's question "When you leave a deposit and back out should you be refunded?" simply NO (up to 10% of total price or actual loses)

"So surely it is not right regardless of the reasons that the seller should keep the deposited amount in this case $300" what was the point of the deposit then?
If it was a $1 deposit for a $100 item would we be having this discussion?

 

[Dark Sith Lord]

No could point James the fact it is a fair amount of money makes it look worse i think

Good point too Chris this is defo a tough situation :|

 

[aussiejames]

Yes $300 is a lot of money to me ( & most people). In fact I haven't paid that much for any single item in my collection. So on that basis if you left a $300 deposit/downpayment you'd make sure of the conditions (ie. is it refundable?) As Oli said why would the receiver of the deposit agree to it being refundable?? That would make no sense at all.
I really don't know what a set of UDE coins are worth- at a guess $10 000+ !!! ?? And on that assumption $300 is **** all. $300 wouldn't even cover Paypal fees or postage insurance :shock:

 

[itfciain]

I think a lot of people in that thread are being pretty harsh to be honest.

I would understand that if the buyer was dealing with a company complete with T&Cs that said the deposit was non-refundable then it would be tough - however I don't think this should be the case with private sales. Especially when he circumstances are such - for me the seller has shown no compassion at all.

The only thing that confuses me in this case is whether the seller actually owns these items or whether he is acting as the middle man. If he has costs to secure these items then this should come out of the deposit but a 'fair' agreement should be reached - $300 is a decent sum of money (£185) and most people can't afford just to lose this

Wasn't going to bother commenting on the RS page but good idea to open the thread up on here Liam

 

[PGowdy]

If you leave a deposit and then back out of a deal now way should you get your money back. That what a 'deposit' is. Doesn't even bare discussing. :shock:

 

[Richard_H]

I put a deposit down on here for a few figures with a member who pulled them off eBay for me. I paid 2 weeks later. If I backed out then damn right would I expect to lose my money. Won't mention his name but thanks once again!


But this story isn't like that. He should have refunded out of decency or given him something to the value of the transaction. He could then sell what he got to get some money back.

 

[Stormtrooper37]

This is a toughie.

At the end of the day the buyer has mucked the seller around for whatever reason. I would be annoyed as the seller, but at the same time probably would compensate the buyer, but not for the whole amount. A deposit, a down payment whatever you call it is NON REFUNDABLE.

The seller has the right to keep the money, but in this case I think he should refund at least half as a goodwill jesture

 

[.Q.]

I'd feel such an asshole keeping the money, wouldn't sit easy on my conscience. Refund, less a 'hassle' fee of like 20% or something? Would seem fair play to me, although the seller under no obligation to do so.

 

[CRAZYHAZY]

Again its a personal thing, imo i would refund the full amount whatever the reason, the guy may have been genuine with his request at the time and struck a deal in good faith and intention and unfortumately circumstances have caused him to pull out.
i dont think the reason why he pulled out is relevent.
These are tough times and losing any amount of cash is a blow !!
Im not wishing to pass judgement on anyone and each to their own.
just saying how i would deal with it.

 

[momike]

Just noticed there is a wtb thread in the chat section by droidsfan1985 who is after ude coins, on the rs thread he calls him self niel and on here it says keith :?: it's a bit of a coincidence that there are two of them looking for coins :?: :!: :?

 

[jedi_masters]

Apparently his middle names Neil. The whole situation does seem a bit strange. One minute he desperatley need the cash back due to personnal reasons, then on here forum he's asking if anybody has any of these to sell. :?: :?: Weird!!

 

[Dark Sith Lord]

Hmmm very weird :? Something doesnt seem quite right there :|

 

[Caswellbot]

Realistically this should have been agreed upon before the deposit was placed. Like some others, I believe a deposit is non-refundable especially with high end purchases like this one seems to have been. The deposit acts as a way of showing the seller that you are serious about buying the piece. It is a sign of commitment.

If circumstances change at any point then it all falls back to what was agreed upon when this deposit was placed.

As a seller, life has become increasingly difficult and buyers sometimes chop and change their minds constantly in my experience. Buyers tend to shift the goal posts more than sellers and it can become really frustrating. Ebay deals are the worst, where there are no repurcussions for buyers who dont pay or are late with payment etc.

A seller might make an offer on a piece for themselves based on the assumption that the buyer of the piece they are selling has agreed a payment plan, placed a deposit and will come through on time. If things go belly up with their buyer or things are delayed, then this can have serious consequences for for the seller.

In an ideal world, people shouldnt overstretch themselves, buyers and sellers should honour their deals (even if it means selling some of their own items to raise funds like I have had to do on ocassions) and terms should definitely be agreed in detail before deposits are paid. Of course people should always do their best to work towards a fair resolution based on the facts.

Like I say...... in an ideal world. :wink:

 

[tiefighterboy]

If I threw $300 at something...I sure as hell would know the terms and know the seller really well.

 

[Joe]

I can see both sides of the argument, if I were a buyer and I put a deposit down and had to pull out of the sale for a valid reason (family issue for example) which meant that even the money I had sent was going to be needed then I would feel pretty upset if I lost it tbh. I mean sure I would have loved to have completed the deal but sometimes **** happens in life and money you would ordinarily be fine with spending on toys becomes extremely important for other reasons. I would hope if I ever did find myself in that situation I would have struck up a bit of a relationship with the seller and hopefully they would understand, so I could at least get some money back however I think it would only be fair to them and the time wasted to allow them to keep some of it.

As a seller though...if I was sent a part payment I would naturally expect someone to come through on the deal, this is in part usually because when I sell its because I want to buy - so I need that money to complete another deal. It would suck to find a buyer then have them back out and want their money back but it could very well happen. I think if I was that seller then I would be understanding to a point but if it had dragged out weeks and weeks and there were a few promises of payment etc that never materialised then I might be tempted to keep the deposit as compensation for all the piss taking!

What about this situation though for example, where it's not really a deposit but you still can't complete a deal for whatever reason..

Example: If you were buying a $1200 item and had broken that down into 4 payments of $300, you had then got to either the second or third payment yet couldn't complete the deal would you expect all your money back? Your money minus the initial $300 you sent? Or an alternative?

I think all of this stuff should definitely be talked about and agreed on ahead of time but I think unfortunately it rarely is, I know I have never once mentioned the word "deposit" when sending the first part of a payment to someone nor have I even bothered to discuss what would happen if I couldn't complete the deal with a seller (think this situation will change my mind on that one though!)

Personally I usually just try to take on things I can handle as far as buying is concerned, so as long as the seller agrees to a certain time period for the entire amount to be paid on I can send the money as and when and it usually works out ok.

 

[PGowdy]

Realistically this should have been agreed upon before the deposit was placed. Like some others, I believe a deposit is non-refundable especially with high end purchases like this one seems to have been. The deposit acts as a way of showing the seller that you are serious about buying the piece. It is a sign of commitment.

If circumstances change at any point then it all falls back to what was agreed upon when this deposit was placed.

As a seller, life has become increasingly difficult and buyers sometimes chop and change their minds constantly in my experience. Buyers tend to shift the goal posts more than sellers and it can become really frustrating. Ebay deals are the worst, where there are no repurcussions for buyers who dont pay or are late with payment etc.

A seller might make an offer on a piece for themselves based on the assumption that the buyer of the piece they are selling has agreed a payment plan, placed a deposit and will come through on time. If things go belly up with their buyer or things are delayed, then this can have serious consequences for for the seller.

In an ideal world, people shouldnt overstretch themselves, buyers and sellers should honour their deals (even if it means selling some of their own items to raise funds like I have had to do on ocassions) and terms should definitely be agreed in detail before deposits are paid. Of course people should always do their best to work towards a fair resolution based on the facts.

Like I say...... in an ideal world. :wink:

Well said. Nothing to add to this whatsoever.

 

[droidsfan1985]

I have clarified all this on the Scum forums. This all happened last July (2011). I'm now resuming my search for the coins since I'm in better shape with regard to money. Thanks to all the guys who've chimed in on my side.
And yes, my middle name is Neil.

-Keith