Ugnaught bag - an interesting one...

[andygo]

Hi All, need to call on your collective brains. I was speaking to James about the ugnaught I had for sale and there's a possibility that this case is a repro ??. An interesting one this as I got all these figures in an 'in the wild' find from an elderly father in law of my mate at work many years ago. All this stuff had been stashed away for ages as he was primarily a dinky toy collector and had picked this stuff up in the late eighties from shops as they were closing them out. He'd put a few on display, then bagged and boxed them all up and stashed them away until digging them out of his loft for me. When I got them, all the figures were wrapped individually in sandwich bags with their respective weapons. There was also a small box where he had a few extra weapons as he had given some of the figures away to his grandkids but didn't want them swallowing the weapons, etc. Now, it's been five years or so since I got these, so they've been sat with me in my loft since then (once I had assimilated the MOC's into my collection ).

So, a really weird one to turn out to have a repro accessory in with it. I brought loads of these to the last farthest from and we all had a good look over everything and they were super minty and all with great quality original weapons as many of you will attest to, which makes this even weirder !! I guess anything is possible, and he was a die-cast toy fan, so maybe he picked up one of these at a fair in the 90's to finish off a figure... I dunno, but what do you boys think...

The ugnaught case in the hand of the one attached to the card is the one in question. (The guy had attached loose figures to the backing cards he got them off... he was that meticulous..!!)

 

[jedisearcher]

Sorry I'm not sure about yours, but as time passes the phrase "childhood collection" or as yours is, a loft/wild find, isn't a cast iron guarantee for there being no repros in a batch. The reason I say this is that I've bought a few little lots of childhood figures and there have been the odd repro in there. I suppose a kid in the 90s might've bought stuff off ebay or at a car boot which has had repros in it without their knowledge. 20 years on and childhood collections from a 70s kid would be fine, whereas more dubious going forward. It all depends on when you were a child I suppose, or even when they were acquired as a child.

The story behind yours is odd if it is a repro, but I had a lot from a guy who knew every shop his figures were bought from and there was a repro in it. I know people can tell porkies to get a sale, but I believed him as he even had most of the card backs. All very odd

 

[andygo]

Yep, trust me, at the price I bought this collection five years ago, and the family it came from, he just wanted shot of it all, there would have been no duplicity involved... unless he was desperate for some new sanatogen !!!

I guess, if it turns out to be a repro, it's probably an odd one that he picked up whilst at the fairs in the 90's whilst collecting cars. The Ugnaught is on the backing card he bought it on in the eighties, but it's definitely possible that maybe he added a weapon if one figure needed one, or maybe the grandkids ate it !!!!

 

[jedisearcher]

Haha damn kids! I think you're right though, it would be so easy for him to have picked up something dodgy along the way (perhaps a collectors fair as he's a Dinky collector and there was always VSW tables at those fairs), completely forgot where he got it from and assumed it was off a card.

I certainly couldn't tell you were everything in my collection came from! I spent an hour the other day trying to trace a MOC I knew I'd bought and found I'd actually sold it about 6 months later :lol:

 

[Jimi Woolley]

I was the buyer of this Ug and I have to say Andy has been great about it all.

I had read a few threads on Facebook about the repro case being very hard to distinguish and had remembered the tell tail sign was the square or rectangle section but couldn't remember which was seen on repro's. I noticed it was different to the case that my discoloured Ug has so checked TIG. On there it states that if it's square, it's repro.

I've taken some more pics of both and have tested them both. They both float, both sound the same when dropped & to be honest are incredibly similar in feel and look apart from some minor mould differences.

I mentioned this to Stefan (Walkie) and he mentioned that it's strange that there is only one style of Ug bag when they were produced in 3 different factories ( shown by the 3 coo families for Ug)

Maybe TIG is incomplete and there are infact 2 versions?

 

[aussiejames]

I agree there is likely to be at least one more original bag. IMO square is still suspect until MOC/baggie proof appears.

 

[andygo]

This is a weird one. Whilst I agree that anything is possible, and there is a possibility the guy could have replaced a missing accessory. Knowing the guy and family, it just doesn't add up. His big passion was die-cast vehicles, he picked all the SW stuff up at close-outs in the 80's for no other reason than a mild curiosity and that it was basically just sat there in end of line bins at bargain prices and piqued his interest, no other reason. Once he's displayed it for a little while, it gets packed away, meticulously, in individual sandwich bags, most with the weapons in the bags with the figures. A few figures are given away over the years to grand kids and spare weapons left over are again, meticulously, placed into one of his wife's old empty jewellery boxes and placed back into the box with all the figures. These are in his loft until circa 2011 when I get them....

I can't see him being bothered to all of a sudden replace a missing accessory on something he had stashed away that wasn't his main interest....

Again, anything is possible, and I'll make sure James is sorted out one way or another, but this has just fascinated me and would love to get to the bottom of it. Unfortunately, my mate's father in law is now pushing his 80's, so the chances of him remembering succinctly what happened 30 years ago are non-existant... (I can't remember what happened yesterday most days..!!)

James doing drop and float tests and there being an exact match to a known legit bag just adds to the mystery....

 

[Snaketibe]

I am as sure as I can be that there are at least two sculpts for the Ugnaught case / bag. I have owned the ones pictured below since approximately 1994/5, when I bought them from a couple of local collectables shops whose stock came almost exclusively from locals bringing in their old toys and selling them. In those days neither figures nor weapons were in short supply, the ugnaught was not rare, and there would have been absolutely no incentive for anyone to make repro bags; what would be the point? It would cost more to manufacture fakes than those readily available on the market.

As you can see from the picture, there is very clearly a sculpt difference in the thickness of the handles, and if that is different, a) why couldn't there be other sculpting differences, and b) it proves there is more than one sculpt. TIG needs to update its Ugnaught bag / case section IMHO.

 

[andygo]

Looks like we've also uncovered some piccies of this style of case in a MOC, so looks like it is indeed correct as I suspected and that TIG requires an update. James is doing more digging but hopefully will provide piccies at some point.

..Every day's a school day..

 

[aussiejames]

TIG requires an update.

It's always a work in progress. And yes at least two toolbags by the looks. Center square vs rectangle, lines/grooves more defined, mould tree sprue marks on opposite sides, handle at the back doesn't meet at the same point.

 

[Jimi Woolley]

Here are a few more comparison pics.
The one in question looks the same as one I have that came with it's original cardback. Been in a loft since 86 and only came out last year. It's been chewed but you can still see certain points that tally with the one in question.

Here are a couple of MOC with the new bag...

There was another Trilogo for sale on Facebook and that has the square toolbag but the seller removed the post before I grabbed the photos he took for me. :roll:

As well as the points AJ has already mentioned it looks like the 2 halves of the mould line up better on the square version than the rectangle version. Also the handle of the square bag is more cylindrical as opposed to the rectangle one being slightly oval