U Grade mass destruction?

[tiefighterboy]

The majority of the cardbacks he has for sale look to be in fairly good shape. I can see doing this to cut card figures (If you want to pay some dumbass to tell you what you already know)....but to destroy a nice sealed figure on it card is totally stupid. This not only takes from the existing ammount of of carded vintage figures, but now drives up the amount of resealed figures, as that is surely what will be done with most of his cardbacks. I do not understnd any of it and it has nothing to do with high end collectors as much as it has to do with all these guys with a huge Hard-on for AFA U grade....what a bunch of cunts.

 

[Dom]

We should set up some fake ebay accounts and hammer the hell out of the U grade sellerd. Wreak enough havok and see if they get the message

 

[jedi_masters]

We should set up some fake ebay accounts and hammer the hell out of the U grade sellerd. Wreak enough havok and see if they get the message

I like the sound of this idea. Something like this needs to be done.

 

[timbo72]

Now that sounds like a good plan

 

[JEFFS_MUSEUM]

Now that sounds like a good plan

Sure does, and just for your info, 80% of these were thrown in my return shipping box from AFA (that were not mine)so when I saw them I was amazed myself 0f the condition, as I also collect mocs. Joe O seems to be the only one here that knows how I feel on this subject. Most all of my kenner American collection is u-graded, all my others are not. Every potf card with a coin attached is from buying the card and mint figure on ebay about 2 months ago. But here is the deal, I may sell about 25 to 50 u-grades a year, and do not look for them, as I send in items that are cut bubbles, cracked bubbles, or real bad c5 cards. I bought most of my u-grade collection before it was even known about when there were 1000s of true beaters out there, this was a common practice for years before u-grading existed as many people wanted un played with figures as there are 1000s of super picky collectors out there, who opened figures before afa ever did u-grades. There was even people posting pics of opening figures on RS and everyone saying hip hip hooray. But there are alot of guys out there who do not care about what the card looks like as there are u-90 light gray fetts out there, now I know that you can never find those on beater cards. If you would like Joe, you could link any of my threads at RS to here where I have explained many times why I like u-grades.



Just to mention, I did not call any of you guys any kind of names or throw hate back at you as you have just done here, before you even knew the story.



Let the rain come, as I know you guys will, just remember I love to collect this stuff just as much if not more than anyone here.

Jeff

 

[BlueDog]

Thanks for your reply Jeff, your right we could do with out the name calling but it just goes to show the passion some members have in regards to U grading.

I highlighted your auction as I was astonished at the amount of cards that appeared to be still in really nice condition, I understand as you have explained that they were cards sent to you by AFA left over from the U Grading process that others had sent in and not yours. Fair enough.

What it does do is highlight the fact that AFA's U grading is party the destruction of not only beaters but some cards that appear to be in really nice condition. I know you are not AFA and this is not targeted directly at yourself, I can see by your collection that you are a amazing collector and an huge amount of time and effort has gone into your display, but.... even you yourself just said there used to be 1000's of true beaters.

These items are not infinite, when a relatively affordable item is broken out of it's original packaging and placed in a perspex box why all of a sudden is it worth twice as much?

I will never understand the practice, I believe it is highly destructive and in some cases extremely selfish and driven by the opportunity to make a quick buck.

A question Jeff, you said yourself when you saw these card backs you'd been sent that you were amazed at the condition of some of them. Does this not prove a point, did any bit of you think, ****!! these awesome cards were destroyed for a U Grade? Hmmm maybe this isn't a great idea.

Cheers Ryan

 

[itfciain]

Now that sounds like a good plan

Sure does, and just for your info, 80% of these were thrown in my return shipping box from AFA (that were not mine)so when I saw them I was amazed myself 0f the condition, as I also collect mocs. Joe O seems to be the only one here that knows how I feel on this subject. Most all of my kenner American collection is u-graded, all my others are not. Every potf card with a coin attached is from buying the card and mint figure on ebay about 2 months ago. But here is the deal, I may sell about 25 to 50 u-grades a year, and do not look for them, as I send in items that are cut bubbles, cracked bubbles, or real bad c5 cards. I bought most of my u-grade collection before it was even known about when there were 1000s of true beaters out there, this was a common practice for years before u-grading existed as many people wanted un played with figures as there are 1000s of super picky collectors out there, who opened figures before afa ever did u-grades. There was even people posting pics of opening figures on RS and everyone saying hip hip hooray. But there are alot of guys out there who do not care about what the card looks like as there are u-90 light gray fetts out there, now I know that you can never find those on beater cards. If you would like Joe, you could link any of my threads at RS to here where I have explained many times why I like u-grades.



Just to mention, I did not call any of you guys any kind of names or throw hate back at you as you have just done here, before you even knew the story.



Let the rain come, as I know you guys will, just remember I love to collect this stuff just as much if not more than anyone here.

Jeff

Sounds like a load of bollocks to me - U grade is damaging to this hobby and anyone who promotes it deserves all the **** that they get

My 2 cents

 

[Dark Sith Lord]

Now that sounds like a good plan

Sure does, and just for your info, 80% of these were thrown in my return shipping box from AFA (that were not mine)so when I saw them I was amazed myself 0f the condition, as I also collect mocs. Joe O seems to be the only one here that knows how I feel on this subject. Most all of my kenner American collection is u-graded, all my others are not. Every potf card with a coin attached is from buying the card and mint figure on ebay about 2 months ago. But here is the deal, I may sell about 25 to 50 u-grades a year, and do not look for them, as I send in items that are cut bubbles, cracked bubbles, or real bad c5 cards. I bought most of my u-grade collection before it was even known about when there were 1000s of true beaters out there, this was a common practice for years before u-grading existed as many people wanted un played with figures as there are 1000s of super picky collectors out there, who opened figures before afa ever did u-grades. There was even people posting pics of opening figures on RS and everyone saying hip hip hooray. But there are alot of guys out there who do not care about what the card looks like as there are u-90 light gray fetts out there, now I know that you can never find those on beater cards. If you would like Joe, you could link any of my threads at RS to here where I have explained many times why I like u-grades.



Just to mention, I did not call any of you guys any kind of names or throw hate back at you as you have just done here, before you even knew the story.



Let the rain come, as I know you guys will, just remember I love to collect this stuff just as much if not more than anyone here.

Jeff

Sounds like a load of bollocks to me - U grade is damaging to this hobby and anyone who promotes it deserves all the **** that they get

My 2 cents

Seconded!

 

[JEFFS_MUSEUM]

My 2cents on u-loose grading



When I started collecting u-loose, it was before AFA announced that they were going to be grading loose, 6 weeks before. I had no problem finding cut cards and true beaters during this time. Now it is very hard to find a true beater, due to this reason. I have bought AFA loose none u-graded for my collection as well.



I do not need to have the highest graded loose set in the world, as AFA 85 or u85 is fine for me. The main reason I enjoy collecting u-loose figures is because u-loose are true factory variants, not sun faded, and not discolored. I also feel that there are many people out there that abuse the u-loose just to get the u90 or u95, and will destroy any moc they choose to do so, but you will always have bad apples in every hobby. If this was not u-loose, it would be something else that would cause a stir in the hobby.



I once new a guy that collected everything vintage, and he also had them graded, but did not care to put them in the correct conditions to keep them looking just like he bought them. He did not care and, this drove me crazy. 1 example is he had a clear bubble POTF Anakin graded AFA 85 and paid alot of money for it, but did not care to take care of it at all, and in 2 years time the bubble turned yellow as he did not care to preserve it, he just wanted to show everyone in person that he had it. He brought it into a friends comic to show him and I, and he brought it in with about 7 other rare mocs all graded in a Target plastic bag, and when he pulled them out th cases had cracks and scratches all over them, 1 case even was missing 1/2 the back of acrylic, 12 back luke AFA 85. It killed me to see that someone could spend that much money on something and not care about it, and put it somewhere where it could be kept in the same condition that it was bought in. I just had to get over it, as they were his toys, and just told myself, he can treat them anyway he would like.



Months later I found out that his wife had been scamming her company, for like 100,000.00 a year, and they would take it all, and buy star wars with it, so I understood why he did not care what he did with them, because he never had to work to get the money to pay for them, so it was like someone was just giving them to him. His wife finally got caught and they had to sell the whole collection, and I knew the guy that bought it, and met up with him to look at all of it when he sold it, and all of it had been trashed even 3-packs, and very rare items, I just about died.



Long story short, there will always be someone in every hobby that destroys items in it just to say they own it, or that they have the highest grade, I'm not one of those people, as I grew up with them, and love to collect them. I will never send a nice moc to be graded for loose, and I mean even if it is in c5 condition, it would need to be in worse shape for me to send in. I never send in sealed baggie figures, and I bought my 2 loose blue snaggletooth's already graded u-loose for my collection, because I would not send in baggies.



My analogy of u-loose in comparison to a person who buy a new car:



U-loose collectors like knowing that the item has never been played with or exposed to the elements.

Brand new vehicle buyers, like knowing the same thing.



I have never bought a new car because I feel it is a rip off, as the second you pull it off the lot, it degrades in value by thousands, but I will not bash anyone who want's to buy a new car, as it is just what they like.



I collect all this stuff because I love toys and everything that comes along with collecting them, including all of you guys and gals here on the scum.



I wish I would have had time to chime in on the Chive, as I would have been a perfect guy for the opposite side of the topic.By the way great job, and I will try to chime in, on the next few.



My 2cents



Thanks Jeff

 

[Dark Sith Lord]

"The main reason I enjoy collecting u-loose figures is because u-loose are true factory variants, not sun faded, and not discolored"

I am sorry but that is just bollocks - A U85 is exactly the same as an 85 IMO! :?

 

[JEFFS_MUSEUM]

Thanks for your reply Jeff, your right we could do with out the name calling but it just goes to show the passion some members have in regards to U grading.

I highlighted your auction as I was astonished at the amount of cards that appeared to be still in really nice condition, I understand as you have explained that they were cards sent to you by AFA left over from the U Grading process that others had sent in and not yours. Fair enough.

What it does do is highlight the fact that AFA's U grading is party the destruction of not only beaters but some cards that appear to be in really nice condition. I know you are not AFA and this is not targeted directly at yourself, I can see by your collection that you are a amazing collector and an huge amount of time and effort has gone into your display, but.... even you yourself just said there used to be 1000's of true beaters.

These items are not infinite, when a relatively affordable item is broken out of it's original packaging and placed in a perspex box why all of a sudden is it worth twice as much?

I will never understand the practice, I believe it is highly destructive and in some cases extremely selfish and driven by the opportunity to make a quick buck.

A question Jeff, you said yourself when you saw these card backs you'd been sent that you were amazed at the condition of some of them. Does this not prove a point, did any bit of you think, ****!! these awesome cards were destroyed for a U Grade? Hmmm maybe this isn't a great idea.

Cheers Ryan

Ryan, understood, keep in mind these card backs will always be kept in great care, as card back collectors love them, as the bubbles were not torn off, so many collectors who cannot afford mocs, can collect cardbacks that look nice, so in the end, everything still stays within the hobby. I do feel there are way to many people sending in c9 mocs. I would never take back what I did as I enjoyed buying my u-loose collection when I did as most all of them were true beaters and most were c2 condition, as I would not be able to to that today without trashing nice mocs, and keep in mind, the one thing I collect the most of is mocs. I also have a loose collection of about 350 loose figures not graded and on display.

Jeff

 

[JEFFS_MUSEUM]

"The main reason I enjoy collecting u-loose figures is because u-loose are true factory variants, not sun faded, and not discolored"

I am sorry but that is just bollocks - A U85 is exactly the same as an 85 IMO! :?

Yes afa 85s are the same and connot be faded or discolored to get the 85 grade. I collect loose ones as well but many have diffrent hair and boot, or body colors, unique to having a loose collection, that you may not find in a package, as I collect figure varients moc as well.

Jeff

 

[BlueDog]

Sorry Jeff I don't understand you analogy with the purchasing a new car mate.

If some one purchases a new car they don't have to destroy an old one in order to do so. I think your missing or avoiding the point.

It is a destructive practice no matter how you try to rationalise it, as another person wrote on RS it's just a clever way AFA have worked out how to make a buck out of carded figure they couldn't grade, hey lets break em out and grade with their own little label, as far as I'm concerned the moment AFA breaks them out of their bubble they are circulated. So in reality the whole notion is a farce.

Can you understand the passion a lot of people have in regards to this practise, if it's being abused then maybe it should be stopped.

 

[Joe]

Sorry just got back from a birthday party - I see I missed some fireworks!

I know Jeff (and one other collector on RS) have always been adamant that they submitted water damaged, rodent chewed dog turds of cards for their U graded set..do I believe them? I don't know, I would be inclined to as it's not nice to lie....is it correct? Not really as there will always be someone out there that would appreciate any carded figure, beater or not..but going forward and probably the most important question: is Jeff submitting carded figures every week to be destoyed for U grade profit? Well only he can answer but I would imagine (and hope) the answer is no.

I still don't agree with that part of his collection at all, I would rather Jeff had non U' figures encased in acrylic as his Kenner set but after about 5 years of fighting against this type of thing on the boards I have come to the realisation that no one can dictate what people do with their toys unfortunately..we can try to educate people and speak with them, if that doesn't work we can also call them names and not deal with them but ultimately they will source toys to U grade if that's their thing.

I sent AFA emails, I upset plenty of people on the boards (that I still really couldn't give a **** about) with my opinions on the subject but regardless of all that, the petitions, the U grade FAQ that Shawn made and the 3 main forums all seemingly against U grading still people keep doing it by the droves on ebay (well perhaps not that much nowadays but still it is happening) so I kinda want to move on from battling morons on the U grade subject if I am honest.

Today I went through all the old threads on U grades that Shawn has at the bottom of his article, and sure enough there I am ranting away in all of them...where did it get me? Nowhere. I still think U grading is pathetic and should stop but I realised unfortunately that we as collectors who oppose it have absolutely no way of stopping it.

I am actually rather happy that U graders/U buyers are spending silly money on glorified loose figures because the sooner they exhaust their disposable income the quicker they leave my hobby alone. Damage done or not.

 

[itfciain]

I am actually rather happy that U graders/U buyers are spending silly money on glorified loose figures because the sooner they exhaust their disposable income the quicker they leave my hobby alone. Damage done or not.

I would be glad to see the back of all of them - IMHO they are parasites on this hobby and have only been legitimised by AFA's greed

I hear the same bullshit from them all the time - the cards were beaters, the bubbles were cracked - same old ****

 

[tiefighterboy]

Wow AFA gives away free cardbacks to people in return shipping..............awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :lol: :roll: :roll:

80% of these were thrown in my return shipping box from AFA (that were not mine)so when I saw them I was amazed myself 0f the condition,

That is the part I do not believe...but then again AFA is not known for their stellar intelligence.

 

[Caswellbot]

Its also important to remember here that you are just one person Jeff and although you may have done all this years ago to terrible cards (which I still dont personally agree with) it doesnt escape the fact that this service is being abused by less scrupulous people and carded figures and baggied items and sealed vehicles ect are being opened which is destructive to the hobby.


No one is out for you in particular Jeff I can assure you. Its nothing personal. I personally am willing to believe you at face value on everything you have said. You have been helpful to me in the past and I appreciate that. However I, like many others just worry that as long as the U Grade is undertaken by companies like AFA we will see a false market where high U Graded figures are touted at ridiculous prices and sealed examples are in decline.

Im sorry if my ebay message offended you but I had no idea it was your auction and worked on the basis that actually whoever was selling may not have understood the wider implications of the U Grade. Sometimes having things pointed out to you can change your outlook completely in certain circumstances. Im not sure I deserved to be called an "Ass Clown" for merely trying to point someone in the direction of an informative article on the matter.


Chris.

 

[tiefighterboy]

The guy called you an "Ass clown"?????.............................Let me know If my services are needed.

 

[tiefighterboy]

Just as an outside observer as I do not know Jeff,

Here are two statements I do not understand and may be taking wrong:

Just to mention, I did not call any of you guys any kind of names or throw hate back at you as you have just done here, before you even knew the story.

This was discussion about an auction and some observations we have made...I do not believe you were mentioned and we did not know it was you personally, with that said, even though they are your auctions, the opinions are still valid, no mater how respected you may feel you are.

Let the rain come, as I know you guys will, just remember I love to collect this stuff just as much if not more than anyone here.

Jeff

You have already made a statement here that will start a fight....as you love star wars more than some of us........................wait is this a star wars forum.............................sorta.....

 

[Caswellbot]

........................wait is this a star wars forum.............................sorta.....

Debatable at times! :wink: