Sorry for another poll guys but I think we need one. There was a landslide vote in favour of banning U-grade sales, but I'm not sure whether to exclude mailers/shipping boxes, so please vote on this. Thanks!
U-Grade Ban: Include Mailing/Shipping boxes?
- Thread starter edd_jedi
- Start date
mr_palitoy
Sith Lord
I think U-grade mailers and MOCs from a shipping case are fine. Otherwise all you have is a boring box with no
idea what is inside. The toys need to be seen to be appreciated. I also think MISB is a bit silly as it all comes
down to when the sellotape seal will dry out these days.
cheers Jason
idea what is inside. The toys need to be seen to be appreciated. I also think MISB is a bit silly as it all comes
down to when the sellotape seal will dry out these days.
cheers Jason
indianawars
Sith Lord
From my view, this is quite a simple decision - Yes, mailers and items removed from shipping boxes should be aloud to be sold here with a U grade! We're all making a huge fuss about the newly found box of 12 backs going up for auction, but no ones complained about the shipping box being opened in the process! If you're telling me that if you saw a Boba Fett mail away for sale for £200 you would turn your nose up at it because it has been U graded, then I'd say you were mad!
naughtyjedi
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edd_jedi said:
So many polls.. its like South Leamington.... (joke for Leamington residents)
benny100
Sith Lord
PGowdy said:
That's the common sense option
itfciain
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From a preservation point then I would love to see these things remain sealed - same wth everything that is U-graded, the more you open the less peices of vintage history remain in the world.... however, I do get the reasoning why poeple do want to open them and agree they look a million times better
I would never open them myself but don't think that there needs to be a complete ban on them - so will abstain from the vote (although does that mean I don't get to see the resut ?)
I would never open them myself but don't think that there needs to be a complete ban on them - so will abstain from the vote (although does that mean I don't get to see the resut ?)
mr_palitoy
Sith Lord
edd_jedi said:
But what of the history that can be documented by opening the box?
And the toys that can be appreciated by the collecting community?
Would you have been in favour of leaving Tutankhamen's tomb sealed?
Look at the millions of people who appreciated the Egyptian culture inside and what has been learnt by opening that tomb...
Jason
Frunkstar
Grand Master
Voted, I agree with being able to U grade select items that can IMO not really be appreciated sealed, like shipping boxes & mailers.
But leave those bloody baggies alone
But leave those bloody baggies alone
finestcomics
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I'm with Iain on the topic of sealed shippers/mailers.
I thought this experience might also be topically relevant. I recently had someone answer one of my ads. He had some items I was interested in, but something about the nature of the items made me want to step back and dig a little deeper before dealing with him. It turns out he had sold numerous u-grades. When I reconnected with him and asked point blank about his u-grading history, he didn't deny it. He, matter of factly, told me that he's bought/sold numerous items, which includes those listed by people who explicitly noted in their listing "no u-graders" - and one of the comments that I remember well was his stating that it seems as long as people are paid handsomely, they don't seem to stick their ideals. That bothered me, because what it insinuates is that people well know when they are getting above what they should get for an item, and to me that's problematic because they must wonder why would someone pay that much for a cut card loose figure unless the buyer had intentions to flip it as a u-grade.
Ultimately, the remedy is to stop the rewarding of the practice by the grader. And it is unfortunate when a sealed shipper or mailer is opened - happened to a friend of mine, when the item passed through customs. I'm of the opinion that a simple remedy to the preference of seeing the contents rather than a "boring" box is to find a buyer (preferably one who won't turn around and u-grade) that appreciates it, and/or trade for a MIB example if your preference is to display.
I thought this experience might also be topically relevant. I recently had someone answer one of my ads. He had some items I was interested in, but something about the nature of the items made me want to step back and dig a little deeper before dealing with him. It turns out he had sold numerous u-grades. When I reconnected with him and asked point blank about his u-grading history, he didn't deny it. He, matter of factly, told me that he's bought/sold numerous items, which includes those listed by people who explicitly noted in their listing "no u-graders" - and one of the comments that I remember well was his stating that it seems as long as people are paid handsomely, they don't seem to stick their ideals. That bothered me, because what it insinuates is that people well know when they are getting above what they should get for an item, and to me that's problematic because they must wonder why would someone pay that much for a cut card loose figure unless the buyer had intentions to flip it as a u-grade.
Ultimately, the remedy is to stop the rewarding of the practice by the grader. And it is unfortunate when a sealed shipper or mailer is opened - happened to a friend of mine, when the item passed through customs. I'm of the opinion that a simple remedy to the preference of seeing the contents rather than a "boring" box is to find a buyer (preferably one who won't turn around and u-grade) that appreciates it, and/or trade for a MIB example if your preference is to display.
Looks like I'm in the minority on this.
I understand everyones point of view about wanting to display their mailers etc but to me its still opening what are a finite amount of items that have survived 30+ years. If I had a sealed mailer etc I could never bring myself to open it, even if I picked it up free. I'd probably display it with a second baggie or something to visualise it. Thats just my personal view.
Its not the cost, or the value, its that every year the numbers of sealed vintage items are decreasing. Ok there might be 10,000 of the buggers (i picked a figure!), but next year there might be 9800 and the next 9600 etc etc.
I know there are a lot of folks with a lot of mailers/baggies etc who this affects much more than me but to be honest this is partly why I'm not hugely into sealed mailers. I wouldn't/couldn't ever open them and they're not exactly exciting to display sealed!
Also, does this take away from the hard-line 'No U grades' message that is being touted for the site? Should it be, 'No U grades (unless they're a bitch to display, those ones are OK)'?
I'm playing devils advocate here
I understand everyones point of view about wanting to display their mailers etc but to me its still opening what are a finite amount of items that have survived 30+ years. If I had a sealed mailer etc I could never bring myself to open it, even if I picked it up free. I'd probably display it with a second baggie or something to visualise it. Thats just my personal view.
Its not the cost, or the value, its that every year the numbers of sealed vintage items are decreasing. Ok there might be 10,000 of the buggers (i picked a figure!), but next year there might be 9800 and the next 9600 etc etc.
I know there are a lot of folks with a lot of mailers/baggies etc who this affects much more than me but to be honest this is partly why I'm not hugely into sealed mailers. I wouldn't/couldn't ever open them and they're not exactly exciting to display sealed!
Also, does this take away from the hard-line 'No U grades' message that is being touted for the site? Should it be, 'No U grades (unless they're a bitch to display, those ones are OK)'?
I'm playing devils advocate here
mr_palitoy
Sith Lord
It's certainly more reasonable to say keep mailers sealed if they still are, the contents are only worth £30-20 quid.
But take the case of the Palitoy shipping case of 48. The contents are worth £100k+. You will never realise the market
value keeping it sealed.
The other thing to remember is that AFA/UKG have been giving u-grades to mailers and MOCs from shipping cases for
a long time. The u-grading of loose figures from baggies and beaters is a more recent thing. So we're just returning the status quo to how it was before that.
Jason
But take the case of the Palitoy shipping case of 48. The contents are worth £100k+. You will never realise the market
value keeping it sealed.
The other thing to remember is that AFA/UKG have been giving u-grades to mailers and MOCs from shipping cases for
a long time. The u-grading of loose figures from baggies and beaters is a more recent thing. So we're just returning the status quo to how it was before that.
Jason
finestcomics
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mr_palitoy said:
The market will absorb this stuff. kept sealed or sold in parts. That much I can guarantee you. It is a very niche item, but the rarity of finding a sealed case (I'm assuming you're referring to 12 Backs for the price you quoted) would probably make it a good problem to have, if one ever turned up.
The other talking point is a sealed early bird kit. I'm of the opinion that if people recognize the historical significance and absolute treasure it would be to find and keep one sealed, then surely we might not be too quick to suggest it's ok to make any mailer an exception to the u-grade rule.
I see your point Jason but I think King Tut's tomb (which I have also been to!) is a bit different. That's from an era pre-manufacturing, so the items inside were likely to be unique. We are talking about mass-produced toys here - I know what a Speeder Bike looks like, I don't need to open a case of them to know or appreciate what they are. And as the recent x-ray proved there are ways of determining what is inside a box. I share the opinion of several others that there are so few of these things left sealed that they should be left that way.
You're probably right that it's easier to sell 48 carded figures separately than it is in one sealed box, but as I said in another thread money shouldn't be the main motivation.
You're probably right that it's easier to sell 48 carded figures separately than it is in one sealed box, but as I said in another thread money shouldn't be the main motivation.
i voted for everything simply because what looks good is a matter of personal taste . It's a bit like being a vegetarian making an exception for ugly animals , who decides which animals are ugly ? There are numerous stories about collectors passing up bootlegs and foreign items for cheap because they were not appreciated at the time or even concidered ugly. When it comes to collectibles you always have to keep in mind that you are also preserving something for the next generation to enjoy and taste changes over time.
Richard_H
Grand Master
Why do mailers need ugrading?
Why can't they be opened and displayed in one of GW Acrylics' cases if it's the displaying of them which is of concern.
Why can't they be opened and displayed in one of GW Acrylics' cases if it's the displaying of them which is of concern.
batman said:
But guys, this is not a vote to find out if you think UGraded mailers look good or even if you think anyone should UGrade a mailer. Or on the aesthetic values of different UGrades in any way. It's to decide whether as a forum we should morally oppose and ban them. So the vote's been a bit skewed if that's what people are voting on. :?
What people are suggesting is that by opening a mailer or a carton of MOCs you are not actually damaging vintage Star Wars packaged toys but in fact are making it so the toy, in it's intended packaging can be seen, displayed and enjoyed.
While others are saying that the intrinsic value of the toys still in the cardboard box the suppliers put them in is the way they ought to be kept.
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