Toy Toni Question...

[Leemcl]

I'd say that a Toy Toni is, to us, worthless...why would you want any part of that shite ?

But I've noted a few sales that have exceeded expectations via eBay, so generally speaking do these things actually have a value and if yes, why ? It makes no sense...

Also how can AFA / UKG ever have graded the Toy Toni MOC ? Surely if these people had any real idea they would have exposed the practice a lot time before others, what credibility do AFA / UKG have when they have graded re cards at 90% ?

 

[Vinyl Jawa]

Purely based on my own experiences whilst buying/looking to buy/owning certain graded figures, I've lost all confidence in one of the two graders (I won't say which). The amount of Toy Tony ROTJ mock ups graded by this outfit is frightening.

It's not just TT stuff, It's some of the gradings, you look at them and think, how on earth did that get an 85 grade, It's a 60/70 at best.

I've just bought a graded Luke Stormtrooper and the blaster is blue/black. It's not just these examples, I've seen dozens upon dozens.

If I'm buying graded, I try my hardest to stick with 'the other company'

I do feel sorry for the guys who have put a fair amount of money and time into getting their stuff graded, only now to find out they're TT's, and you see them all on ebay, graded MOC figures, sellers having to sell them for £99 and suchlike to cut their losses, with warnings on their listings about them being TT's.

 

[Ian_C]

I can't stand the concept myself, but for some it's a cheaper way to own all original material than legit factory MOC's. I've seen long time anti-repro, anti-recard guys argue in favor of these. I think for some others, they got shafted for authentic prices when they bought these and are trying to justify it now. Personally, they're not even as good as loose figures with original bubbles and cardbacks, as the bubbles and cardbacks are essentially ruined by sealing them with a non-authentic heat seal. Plus, you have issues like mentioned here, where incorrect weapons and bubbles have been used, screwing up the knowledge of what legitimately came with what at the factories. This isn't even mentioning the unscrupulous people who feign ignorance and sell them as legit, where only someone familiar with the situation has any hope of identifying them for what they are.

Toni should have gone to jail for fraud in my opinion, and all of his carded stuff should be opened.

Ian

 

[rdpla]

Thanks to Mr Palitoy I have saved myself something of a small fortune
His information has been absolutely fantastic especially with the 45 backs, although does anyone know if 45back jawas and darths were also TT`s.
I couldnt see any on his matrix...
I sometimes watch the UK auction houses selling and sadly there really is no protection if you spent a grand on what is in fact a toy toni..Sadly a couple of auction houses, despite me mailing them to tell them they are fakes and where the tell tale signs are, have still sold the cards to unsuspecting bidders.. legalised fraud.

Robert

 

[mr_palitoy]

Thanks to Mr Palitoy I have saved myself something of a small fortune
His information has been absolutely fantastic especially with the 45 backs, although does anyone know if 45back jawas and darths were also TT`s.
I couldnt see any on his matrix...
I sometimes watch the UK auction houses selling and sadly there really is no protection if you spent a grand on what is in fact a toy toni..Sadly a couple of auction houses, despite me mailing them to tell them they are fakes and where the tell tale signs are, have still sold the cards to unsuspecting bidders.. legalised fraud.

Robert

Thanks for the knd words. Palitoy 45 back jawa and 45 back Vader are both in the clear.

Cheers Jason

 

[mr_palitoy]

I can't stand the concept myself, but for some it's a cheaper way to own all original material than legit factory MOC's. I've seen long time anti-repro, anti-recard guys argue in favor of these. I think for some others, they got shafted for authentic prices when they bought these and are trying to justify it now. Personally, they're not even as good as loose figures with original bubbles and cardbacks, as the bubbles and cardbacks are essentially ruined by sealing them with a non-authentic heat seal. Plus, you have issues like mentioned here, where incorrect weapons and bubbles have been used, screwing up the knowledge of what legitimately came with what at the factories. This isn't even mentioning the unscrupulous people who feign ignorance and sell them as legit, where only someone familiar with the situation has any hope of identifying them for what they are.

Toni should have gone to jail for fraud in my opinion, and all of his carded stuff should be opened.

Ian

I have to disagree about the cardbacks being ruined. They are ruined from being unused cardbacks, but are as nice as you can get in used cardback terms as the bubbles leave minimal impressions when they come off.

Cheers Jason

 

[Ian_C]

Jason, by ruined I mean they are no longer mint unused cardbacks. They may leave minimal impressions - but they do leave impressions. They'd be worth more if they had never had the bubbles attached to them. I know for cardback collectors they still have value - I just mean they are now "less" valuable.

Ian

 

[mr_palitoy]

Jason, by ruined I mean they are no longer mint unused cardbacks. They may leave minimal impressions - but they do leave impressions. They'd be worth more if they had never had the bubbles attached to them. I know for cardback collectors they still have value - I just mean they are now "less" valuable.

Ian

It's a real shame Toni didn't just sell them all uncarded as we'd have a Palitoy unused cardback market bigger than the Kenner proof card one. A few were sold uncarded back in the late 90s by Toni but he stopped as people would realise and his carding business would be over. I still hold some hope that they may come back on the market in uncarded form in the future. I estimated that there are 4-6k of these left.

Cheers Jason

 

[edd_jedi]

I can see why people like them - they are perfect. You just don't see genuine MOCs in that kind of factory fresh condition. I imagine many people would have happily bought them for a reasonable price if he was honest about what they were.

Toni has proved over the years that he's driven by greed so I am convinced that at some point he will try and cash in on his cardbacks, either directly himself or by selling them on to a dealer. It makes me slightly happier about the whole situation that he missed out on so much cash and wasted so much effort assembling these fakes when the unused cardbacks alone would have fetched more. Not as smart as he thought he was.

Also how can AFA / UKG ever have graded the Toy Toni MOC ? Surely if these people had any real idea they would have exposed the practice a lot time before others, what credibility do AFA / UKG have when they have graded re cards at 90% ?

You've answered your own question there, they don't have any credibility with many collectors. I trust my own opinion and experience more than either company.

 

[ScruffyLookingNH]

I have bought two TTs knowingly. Once as an example and the other for an experiment. Watch this space.

My recent trip to Singapore put me in touch with a chap who has some of the "best" TTs I've seen. Some really super looking pieces. He didn't know what he was going to do with them but I would have happily had them in my collection; not even as stand ins but as TTs.

As Edd says, they do look great and there are are some rare cardbacks amongst them. I like them because they're now part of the story. Sure, it's a part of the story filled with greed, treachery and vandalism but that doesn't make them any less part of the story. Some people collect military medals to those killed at a particular battle, buried in a particular cemetery or at have been striped from the man for some crime. Some people collect WWII German militaria. And some people collect bootleg figures. Actually, some people pay more than I earn in 4 months for a single bootleg MOC. You cannot possibly argue that some crap Turkish knock off is any more valid than a TT, surely? And for the record I quite like Uzay stuff but I don't see how some are worth thousands and thousands of pounds. Just because it doesn't appeal to one person (to the point they consider it the height of bad taste) doesn't make it any less valid.

I am casually looking for TTs. I won't pay more than half what the real deal is worth and refuse to get caught up in the insanity that some of the Boba TTs are going for ("trilogo" Boba or not, it doesn't make a TT Boba worth £400) but I will pick them up if I find them at the right price.

And I know a few here will spit feathers at this next statement, but I think you'll find TTs become increasingly collected in the not too distant future.

 

[Cardbackkid]

I have bought two TTs knowingly. Once as an example and the other for an experiment. Watch this space.

My recent trip to Singapore put me in touch with a chap who has some of the "best" TTs I've seen. Some really super looking pieces. He didn't know what he was going to do with them but I would have happily had them in my collection; not even as stand ins but as TTs.

As Edd says, they do look great and there are are some rare cardbacks amongst them. I like them because they're now part of the story. Sure, it's a part of the story filled with greed, treachery and vandalism but that doesn't make them any less part of the story. Some people collect military medals to those killed at a particular battle, buried in a particular cemetery or at have been striped from the man for some crime. Some people collect WWII German militaria. And some people collect bootleg figures. Actually, some people pay more than I earn in 4 months for a single bootleg MOC. You cannot possibly argue that some crap Turkish knock off is any more valid than a TT, surely? And for the record I quite like Uzay stuff but I don't see how some are worth thousands and thousands of pounds. Just because it doesn't appeal to one person (to the point they consider it the height of bad taste) doesn't make it any less valid.

I am casually looking for TTs. I won't pay more than half what the real deal is worth and refuse to get caught up in the insanity that some of the Boba TTs are going for ("trilogo" Boba or not, it doesn't make a TT Boba worth £400) but I will pick them up if I find them at the right price.

And I know a few here will spit feathers at this next statement, but I think you'll find TTs become increasingly collected in the not too distant future.

I totally agree they've become part of history even if it is for the wrong reasons . Does anyone know exactly how many different figures was "faked" ? It would be an achievement to get a full set

 

[yoda]

I got caught also like alot of others on here with him. But as you say thats part of the history of these figures. I personally am not a fan of them I would prefer the original factory seal. I think you are right though I can see these maybe taking off with collection's.
Then maybe I can sell my Toni Han and buy another factory sealed card in similar condition later down the line

 

[stormcab]

I was lucky to have only bought one back in the 90s. A Fett. I paid £110 for him, sold him on eBay last year with full TT disclosure, and got around £190. Lucky escape there. Although a little annoyed non disclosure ones were getting £500 plus, but once you scar yourself with a bad reputation in this game it'll stick with you.

 

[Ian_C]

You cannot possibly argue that some crap Turkish knock off is any more valid than a TT, surely?

I don't collect bootlegs myself, but the reason I would consider them more valid is because you can never, unless you know nothing about vintage, mistake a bootleg for the real deal. Not so with TT's.

My opinion, but the whole prospect of deception is what makes me wish every TT out there was burned, akin to piles of disco records torched after the disco fad passed.

Ian

 

[ScruffyLookingNH]

You cannot possibly argue that some crap Turkish knock off is any more valid than a TT, surely?

I don't collect bootlegs myself, but the reason I would consider them more valid is because you can never, unless you know nothing about vintage, mistake a bootleg for the real deal. Not so with TT's

Very true, Ian. No way you can mistake the bootleg and I doubt any deception was ever intended with a bootleg, they were there simply to satisfy a demand. And yes, TTs are pure deception. However, that just agrees with the point I went on to make that it's all about personal preference: what floats one boat may not float another. Regardless of the motive behind them they're now part of SW history, for better or for worse.

 

[mr_palitoy]

A word of caution to those looking to collect Toy Tonis. The bubbles were sealed to the cards with heat activated glue on the back of the bubbles that was well past its sell by date.

These bubbles are all going to fall off sooner rather than later.

Jason

 

[yoda]

A word of caution to those looking to collect Toy Tonis. The bubbles were sealed to the cards with heat activated glue on the back of the bubbles that was well past its sell by date.

These bubbles are all going to fall off sooner rather than later.

Jason

That's not good I think I paid around £200 at the time for what I thought was a mint carded large headed Han :roll:

 

[ScruffyLookingNH]

A word of caution to those looking to collect Toy Tonis. The bubbles were sealed to the cards with heat activated glue on the back of the bubbles that was well past its sell by date.

These bubbles are all going to fall off sooner rather than later.

Jason

That's an interesting thought that I hadn't considered. Hopefully, however, the bubbles will fall off without a trace and we'll be left with nice figures and lovely cardbacks? That's going to be a "no" isn't it?

 

[Leemcl]

I am guessing those nice mint figures might well be touched up and with some nice repro items ( capes maybe ) that will render them essentially as valuable as beaters ?

 

[Vinyl Jawa]

Well, I know I've been a bit stupid, but today I've gone and bought an 'AFA' graded MOC ToyToni figure, and I'll tell you why.

Firstly, and most importantly, It was reasonably cheap. Secondly, It was AFA graded and not UKG, If it were a UKG graded one I'd have given it a wide berth, I mean who wouldn't?, they are all over ebay, graded 90, MOC?, I mean didn't alarm bells ring at any point with the graders after the first 20?. Plus I got this romantic idea of the adventure and travel this AFA graded figure has gone through, all for the end result of landing on my doorstep for a cost of a hundred pounds or so.

I mean some guy (TT), has bought these card backs, bubbles and figures, and married them up, probably selling mine to an unsuspecting buyer at a market. The buyer has maybe sold it, who knows who it's ended up with. Then another unsuspecting guy who loves it enough, has decided to get it graded. Not just good enough to send to the UK's own UKG, nope, he send it to the States to AFA. And it's duped the guys in America, they've graded it an AFA 85, and posted it back to the bloke in the UK. Maybe he then got fed up with it, maybe he found out later about the TT scam, and who knows how many owners it's had and how many journeys it's taken before I buy it on ebay for just over £100.

That's why today i knowingly bought a ToyToni AFA 85 Hoth Stormtrooper for just a tad over a hundred pounds, and I'm happy if the bubble falls off