Rogue One or The Force Awakens

[Ian_C]

Obviously, I agree with your sentiments, but I'm not quite getting the people saying this.

I guess it could (should?) have been slightly more child friendly as Star Wars is and always should be a kids film franchise, but I'm not complaining at getting a slightly more adult film!

I was hesitant to take my kids to R1 because of the warnings about it not being kid friendly. My 8 year old loved it, and wasn't scared of a single scene. He was more upset at K-2 dying than any human.

By comparison, ESB was pretty much the same thing. Mass death and destruction on Hoth. Dak doesn't just die in his snowspeeder, he gets stepped on and crushed by an AT-AT. A wampa that attacks Luke, scarring his face before having his arm cut off (which became more bloody in the 1997 version). LOTS of sexual innuendo between Han and Leia. 3PO blasted to pieces. Cutting off Vader's head in the tree scene on Dagobah, revealing Luke's face inside. Han is tortured onscreen, while Leia and Chewbacca are tortured offscreen. Han is frozen in carbonite. Luke has his hand chopped off, has his assailant's identity revealed as his own father, then plunges towards what he thought was his death.

ESB was, is some ways, darker than R1.

Then there's some pretty adult scenes in the other films too.

ANH - Walrusman's arm is severed and we see the bloody arm on the ground. Owen and Beru's burning skeletons. Luke pulled underwater by a dianoga. The whole concept of being crushed by a trash compactor. Destruction of Alderaan, made more personal knowing Leia's adoptive parents are among the victims. Obi-Wan chopped in half.

ROTJ - Jabba is choked to death with a chain. Leia is forced into slavery, wearing a bikini. A Rancor is seen eating a Gamorrean that is sqealing in terror. Ewoks intend to cook and eat the rebels. Ewoks shot out of the sky by an AT-ST. Two Ewoks run past an explosion, and one survives, while showing sadness at his friend who did not. Luke momentarily gives in to the Dark Side. Vader loses his hand (again), then dies. The Emperor is thrown down a shaft.

And of course, ROTS - Dooku has two hands severed, then is mercilessly beheaded by Anakin. Grievous murdering Shaak Ti (in a deleted scene). Order 66, and the mass slaughter of Jedi. Anakin murdering children. Anakin having his limbs severed, then catching fire and burning onscreen.

The whole saga has several "adult" scenes throughout. Just because this one had a more military feel, and most of the stars died, this isn't really that far from some of the scenes we've had before it.

It's been two and a half days since I saw it, and am still stunned over how good it was.

Ian

 

[SAVORY100]

Obviously, I agree with your sentiments, but I'm not quite getting the people saying this.

I guess it could (should?) have been slightly more child friendly as Star Wars is and always should be a kids film franchise, but I'm not complaining at getting a slightly more adult film!

I was hesitant to take my kids to R1 because of the warnings about it not being kid friendly. My 8 year old loved it, and wasn't scared of a single scene. He was more upset at K-2 dying than any human.

By comparison, ESB was pretty much the same thing. Mass death and destruction on Hoth. Dak doesn't just die in his snowspeeder, he gets stepped on and crushed by an AT-AT. A wampa that attacks Luke, scarring his face before having his arm cut off (which became more bloody in the 1997 version). LOTS of sexual innuendo between Han and Leia. 3PO blasted to pieces. Cutting off Vader's head in the tree scene on Dagobah, revealing Luke's face inside. Han is tortured onscreen, while Leia and Chewbacca are tortured offscreen. Han is frozen in carbonite. Luke has his hand chopped off, has his assailant's identity revealed as his own father, then plunges towards what he thought was his death.

ESB was, is some ways, darker than R1.

Then there's some pretty adult scenes in the other films too.

ANH - Walrusman's arm is severed and we see the bloody arm on the ground. Owen and Beru's burning skeletons. Luke pulled underwater by a dianoga. The whole concept of being crushed by a trash compactor. Destruction of Alderaan, made more personal knowing Leia's adoptive parents are among the victims. Obi-Wan chopped in half.

ROTJ - Jabba is choked to death with a chain. Leia is forced into slavery, wearing a bikini. A Rancor is seen eating a Gamorrean that is sqealing in terror. Ewoks intend to cook and eat the rebels. Ewoks shot out of the sky by an AT-ST. Two Ewoks run past an explosion, and one survives, while showing sadness at his friend who did not. Luke momentarily gives in to the Dark Side. Vader loses his hand (again), then dies. The Emperor is thrown down a shaft.

And of course, ROTS - Dooku has two hands severed, then is mercilessly beheaded by Anakin. Grievous murdering Shaak Ti (in a deleted scene). Order 66, and the mass slaughter of Jedi. Anakin murdering children. Anakin having his limbs severed, then catching fire and burning onscreen.

The whole saga has several "adult" scenes throughout. Just because this one had a more military feel, and most of the stars died, this isn't really that far from some of the scenes we've had before it.

It's been two and a half days since I saw it, and am still stunned over how good it was.

Ian

To clarify, the difference for me is that between cartoon violence and actual threat and fear. That is essentially the difference between the adult and child film comments (in my mind) not whether there is blood and gore or a handful of cartoon violence examples in the other films. To me this is the first Star Wars film to clearly cross that line.

Its a bit like some of the fight scenes in Kill Bill for example, its not actually a terribly scary film as you see all the stupid over the top violence (ala the Wampa or Dooku killing) vs a film like The Strangers where you don't see any gore but its terrifying because of the threat and emotion in the acts being carried out; both of those are of course 18 certificates, but the context holds.

Rogue One film has an underlying grit and the kills aren't over the top and cartoon clean, they are darker. There is a darkness and a reality to a lot more of this film than any other before, the way it is shot makes it feel more real and the way the characters react to the deaths around them is with decent acting and real emotion, no hamming it up. Even the locations are less 'somewhere in the stars' in a number of cases, it certainly adds to the sense of reality for me.

Unlike the Star Wars, ESB and ROTJ real characters you have bonded with, these ones die, they all die, there is no big rush of hope for them, unlike Luke, Han Leia, C3-PO, Chewie etc who all get beaten and bruised but live to fight another day (in the main). There are no over the top screams like Luke's in ESB to give a child context of what they are seeing and how they should feel. Emotional cues are vital to children, this film has so many of them removed and that makes it an adult film as only an adult can process the feeling and react to it appropriately. A child needs to be prompted and told how to feel.. its (in part at least) why Hayden Christensen gets such a tough time from adult fans, his acting is over the top child friendly, but kids need that and its why kids actually like those films.

Rogue One is full of hard cold kills with no emotion at all (the opening scene shooting the spy in the back has zero emotion), it's a piece of filmmaking that is arguably not child appropriate, it is not a situation they could (or should) be able to process if they are leading a normal childhood as we do as adults.. I guess they would see it face value and not understand the brutality, but if they question it, which they may, its a difficult thing to process for them.

The sadness of each characters death and the impact emotionally that it has on those around them is not at all explored in any of the other films (outside of Han's death), even that though is overly dramatic and doesn't linger like the deaths in R1.

The Deep Impact style Jyn death is peaked with emotion and has a real sadness to it.

Kids and kids films do not deal in real sadness, deception and the darker side of killing (generally), they do though deal in over the top yelps, screams and cartoon violence.

I would agree on the Anakin/younglings example on reflection as it does have a shock factor even though nothing is actually seen, the other examples though are dressed totally differently to enable a child's mind to cope with them, like Tom & Jerry or Roadrunner.

Anyway, its just my opinion, I do see a difference though.

 

[Ian_C]

That's a fair counter. I don't necessarily agree, but can see what you're trying to say. Cheers.

Ian

 

[SAVORY100]

That's a fair counter. I don't necessarily agree, but can see what you're trying to say. Cheers.

Ian

Never worth a row, I just wanted to explain why I said it; appreciate you understanding my point of view as I do yours - cheers
Steve

 

[yoda]

Was gonna choose but think ill also give it another couple of views before I decide.

 

[_Lee_]

Rogue One is the best Star Wars film since ROTJ in my own personal opinion. I havent felt the way i did after seeing Rogue One in a long time. It completely blows TFA to smithereens IMO,aswell as the PT. As Iain said, they are completely different films, but the gritty acting and great back story made Rogue One stand out. Seeing Cushing immortalised and the great work on Leia gave me goosebumps. Yes, Vader brutal in the ending but that is who he is-he was hardly going to tickle them to death was he?

That said, im still looking forward to episode 8 as it carries on the saga. I for one hope that other directors learn from Gareth Edwards as that guy can make a good movie.

Anyway, Star Wars came back last year but now they have surpassed even my expectations with R1.

 

[x-pack]

Yes, Vader brutal in the ending but that is who he is-he was hardly going to tickle them to death was he?

Vader could actually do this! :lol:

 

[Nick_IoW]

Definitely prefered TFA.

Yeah I've seen the DS blow up 3 times, but I've seen a million (exaggeration) dirty dozen style movies - and it doesn't come close the camaraderie of the characters in those movies.

I didn't find R1 dark or menacing, no feeling for the characters safety. Nothing. Just sat their waiting to see how they would die.

I guess I prefer more lightsabers and the turmoil between light and dark to generic gunplay.

Well, except for the prequels - lightsabers can't save those.

Wish I had liked this more - hopefully will grow on me over time. Cos I really want to like it - but I guess you can't force these things.

 

[Mr. Tie]

Definitely prefered TFA.

Yeah I've seen the DS blow up 3 times, but I've seen a million (exaggeration) dirty dozen style movies - and it doesn't come close the camaraderie of the characters in those movies.

I didn't find R1 dark or menacing, no feeling for the characters safety. Nothing. Just sat their waiting to see how they would die.

I guess I prefer more lightsabers and the turmoil between light and dark to generic gunplay.

Well, except for the prequels - lightsabers can't save those.

Wish I had liked this more - hopefully will grow on me over time. Cos I really want to like it - but I guess you can't force these things.

I agree as far as your opinion about R1. It's a complete insensitive movie, you can't interact with the characters because at the end of the movie they are all dead I also didn't like the absence of lightsabers, I am not such a sticky guy :wink: It's more like a computer game, sort of first shooter. Although TFA lacks any originality, I like the Force elements in it. Well, just wait for episode 8 and hope it's kinda ESB :? No SW spin off for me anymore, Disney can keep the Han Solo sh** :shock: :lol:

 

[StarWarsFan]

R1

 

[Cyborg-Fett]

Rogue One for me, only just, but really neither TFA nor Rogue One were particularly amazing. The first half of Rogue one was boring as ****, and bland, detached and formulaic, and I felt no sense of empathy or connection to any of the characters except Jyn, the rest of the actors had no onscreen presence, the typical modern-day play-it-safe formula with no personality. Movies in the old days had personality, these days they're all deadbeats, souless, the directing is ****ed.

Same crap with TFA, it was also formulaic, sort of like... scene 1, scene 2, scene 3 blah blah, very clinical and contrived with no proper flow, and Poe Saying "Nice to meet you too Finn" < was the cheeziest most stupidest thing I've ever heard in a movie, a modern-day bland greeting does not belong in a TFA movie, so JJ Abrams is just a ****wit on that count, and there was no panic when the Tie Fighter was in terminal decent after they stole it and fled. One minute they were plummeting through the stratosphere, next JJ Abrams cut to it crashed on the ground. JJ Abrams is a useless fart. If it wasn't for Harrison Ford TFA would have been shitty useless ****.

Yes I watched ANH (Star Wars - A New Hope) with my own eyes in 1977 when I was 6 years old.

IMO, with the tech we have today, I firmly believe they should remake the OT (Original Trilogy) to flow on from Rogue One. Do it all again with today's new tech, because Rogue One is leagues ahead of ANH in terms of onscreen visuals, so it's kind of incongruent, they need to remake ANH and ESB and ROTJ.

If I were a billionaire, I'd buy the rights to remake the OT, and believe me, I would choose the right actors and make sure they're playing their part brilliantly, in their persona, old school style.

 

[Frunkstar]

R1 for me stood head & shoulders over TFA more like head to ankles, this is the return to the real feel of the star wars universe I have been waiting for since dare I say it ESB, R1 kicks ROTJ ass IMO, but hey the Ewoks always killed ROTJ for me, not that I don't love ROTJ, but R1 just felt right, no tears shed for the lack of lighsabers either, IMo it did not need anything other than the scene with the power droid they pulled :lol: some say the tarkin role was overplayed but I did not find that at all,though have only seen the film the once, though have no doubt I will enjoy it 2nd 3rd & 20th time round, I was not what you call busting to watch TFA for a 2nd time, don't get me wrong, I have seen it a few times since 2 or 3 I think, but I am champing at the bit to take in R1 again already & only watched it a couple of days ago.

Think the sole gripe I really have is that the vader mask did not seem right - or was that just me???

 

[Commander Clint]

Rogue One. By far. I loved it.

My wife and youngest daughter where attached to some of the Rogue One characters, so they were disappointed that all the main hero's don't make it.

 

[yoda]

My favourite was Chirrut.

 

[Joe]

Like Iain said R1 and TFA are both very different films aimed at different groups. TFA had to undo a lot of the damage the prequels did to the SW franchise and while it was a great film, JJ definitely played it safe. He also had to make a film that was the first of three and one that brought in new fans..so I honestly think he had the harder job. R1 on the other hand allowed Gareth the freedom to tell a darker story and one that I think fans of the OT will see as a more important one in the grand scheme of things.

I haven't voted either way as I don't think you can really compare them but it's interesting to see most people voting for R1 over TFA, especially as most of the people here were over the moon with TFA - that can only mean both films are amazing and that makes me happy

 

[smallsballs]

Rogue One for me
Lead character better, better main baddy (Orson Krennic), and VADER KICKS ASS!

 

[chipsteak]

TFA for me. It's far from perfect and God I wish it were more original.

But I wasn't stoked for a more serious war 'Wars' film as I don't really like serious action films. I like my action films pretty light, really. I quite liked the R1 characters but not enough. I'd prefer them more colourful ( perhaps literally ).

 

[andygo]

I firmly believe they should remake the OT (Original Trilogy) to flow on from Rogue One. Do it all again with today's new tech

...blasphemy !!!!!!!


TFA for me over Rogue One. Liked them both, but prefer the continuing OT narrative of TFA...


...but then again, I love The Last Starfighter and Cagney and Lacey...so what do I know....

 

[Andyclarke]

Rogue One for me.

R1 - 9/10 film, Force Awakens - 7/10.

To put things into perspective.

Star Wars - 10/10
Empire - 10/10 (perfection and favourite film of all time)
Jedi - 9.5/10
Phantom Menace - 4/10
Clones - 4/10
Sith - 5/10

 

[edd_jedi]

Watched TFA again at the weekend, and confirmed I think Rogue One is better. A lot of people really like her but I just find Rey really annoying, would be more suited to Harry Potter or Notting Hill than a Star Wars film. She spoils a lot of the film for me with her cheesy dialogue and horrible over-acting. And sorry but Adam Driver is a wet sap, crap baddie. Should join a moany teenage rock band. I don't hate it though, so it's an improvement on most of the prequels!

Still need to see Rogue One a second time.