Resealed figure discovery debate - G.Kurtz Palitoy VC Jawa.

[mr_palitoy]

I agree with what people are saying, there are always going to be sellers and buyers who will be unaware of this situation but even if they were aware..what are they going to do? Pull their auction? On what grounds? All we have is a bunch of circumstantial evidence that admittedly doesn't look good won't be proof enough for some.

Forum members are far more likely to feel bad by selling Toni figures because it's kind of impossible to pretend you haven't seen all the threads at this stage and of course the majority are nice guys who care about their fellow collectors..yet some still will. It might seem bad form but they will just say until it's proven it's not true.

It will be on their conscience if they cash out knowing full well the figures might be suspect, if you want to do something about it then you can email a link to the thread(s) to buyers + sellers on ebay or the forums but you won't be able to alert everyone or stop everyone from selling these on. I know for a fact your regular ebay dealer won't give a **** even if it IS all proven to be true.

I have a bunch of these, (see my AFA 90 ESB/ROTJ Palitoy focus). Even if i sell them on cheaply with full disclosure, what's to stop the buyer
from flipping them at a higher price with no disclosure?

Jason

 

[Hothrebel]

It is all about conscience ,you cannot control what other people do,there will always be some one who will try and take advantage of a bad situation,

 

[Joe]

I have a bunch of these, (see my AFA 90 ESB/ROTJ Palitoy focus). Even if i sell them on cheaply with full disclosure, what's to stop the buyer
from flipping them at a higher price with no disclosure?

Jason

Yeah you are in a tough spot Jason. Not too many options for you really apart from just sitting on them for the foreseeable future. Like you said even if you do sell them cheap to try and recoup some funds you then have to either find a trustworthy buyer who will not **** anyone over or actively keep tabs on them once they leave your collection..just a real mess

We should continue to push for evidence either way in the hope that at some point in the future collectors can have some closure on the matter.

 

[søren]

I have a ESB palitoy Fett cardback from a childhood colletion , wich has the iron tip mark under the buble .

 

[Joe]

I have a ESB palitoy Fett cardback from a childhood colletion , wich has the iron tip mark under the buble .

This is the problem with trying to make sense of every little mark or blemish on these cards, while some may be of interest the vast majority are going to lead us on wild goose chases and waste time in the long run.

On that note, has anyone found a picture of a shop sold Palitoy threepio that proves Mattias's theory wrong? I believe to date he is the only one that was actually on to something with regard to the cards.

 

[jimbody1]

On that note, has anyone found a picture of a shop sold Palitoy threepio that proves Mattias's theory wrong? I believe to date he is the only one that was actually on to something with regard to the cards.

The problem with that is as has already been stated by I think it was Tom derby? These cards qc was rubbish and all sorts of miscards and crap cards got through to the shops.

 

[Joe]

I'd put my neck out and disagree on that one to a certain extent. I think both Palitoy and Kenner actually were bothered with QC issues and while you can find unpainted figures or bubbles up the wrong way etc cases like that are still in the minority.

I'd guess you probably see one error figure in every thousand or so good figures (both loose and carded) which is also the reason error figures are sought after and coveted by collectors today, they are something different and reminds us that everyone is human.

As for miscards - everyone always talks about the hectic Trilogo period and the masses of Trilogo miscards when discussing QC efficiency but in reality those weren't QC errors at all, they were all deliberately packed like that to get rid of overstock. A true QC error miscard (Kenner or another company) is a real hard find. I can think of only a handful of genuine ones out there.

It's logical that if there was a faulty batch that did get through the issue would probably be with the card though because a card fault would probably be easiest to miss (minor blemishes or print errors etc) and also it was printed packaging that didn't really effect the toy itself, so yes I do agree that even Mattias could be wrong but it is still the only card observation that appears to be a link between unused backers being used by Toni, ones that differ to store stock.

With that said, Dave's Trilogo sheet definitely proves that the QC guys weren't letting any old junk through - it was rejected because the back was all messed up and they still didn't let it go through even if it was going in the bin once the kids had opened their figures up.

They definitely had standards and always tried to turn out quality product, even when it got hectic towards the end. The "real" errors are actually things like double packing weapons or missing weapons not stuff like miscards.

 

[jimbody1]

I do agree to some extent but the flaws indicated are small and it would seem not on all cards from Toni in regards to the 3po anyway which means its by no means a reliable way of identification.

I'm not trying to rubbish peoples good work here but if you take this to the police/ trading standards etc the fact that these flaws have been found on other cards (red spots next to chewbacca etc) on non Toni bought mocs and the lack of the print error on other Toni bought 3po's means they won't take this as any type of evidence and may well dismiss this out of hand. I think the only real avenue worth persuing may well be the bubble types. If they're repro they should be pretty easy to discover the difference between vintage and modern repro.

 

[jay4]

thinking a bit more about this



when it comes to the value of them now , most of these cards are just not rare and everyone knows that now.

harsh facts but reality i think ?

just my thoughts J

NO not at all for one simple reason about 1/10000000th of the collecting world knows of this, 99.999999% of vtg collectors around the world have not nor will not even hear about this unless its made properly public! , hardly any collectors are on these forums and dont know people on them either so wont know a thing and not likley to either :wink: unless of course such a thing as a public outing/warning type ebay auction was to appear for sale worldwide for the masses to get wind . anyone brave enough :?:

 

[jimbody1]

thinking a bit more about this



when it comes to the value of them now , most of these cards are just not rare and everyone knows that now.

harsh facts but reality i think ?

just my thoughts J

NO not at all for one simple reason about 1/10000000th of the collecting world knows of this, 99.999999% of vtg collectors around the world have not nor will not even hear about this unless its made properly public! , hardly any collectors are on these forums and dont know people on them either so wont know a thing and not likley to either :wink: unless of course such a thing as a public outing/warning type ebay auction was to appear for sale worldwide for the masses to get wind . anyone brave enough :?:

I think anyone considering that idea would be leaving themselves wide open if they did.
until such time as its proven all you can do is speculate unfortunately.

 

[jay4]

thinking a bit more about this



when it comes to the value of them now , most of these cards are just not rare and everyone knows that now.

harsh facts but reality i think ?

just my thoughts J

NO not at all for one simple reason about 1/10000000th of the collecting world knows of this, 99.999999% of vtg collectors around the world have not nor will not even hear about this unless its made properly public! , hardly any collectors are on these forums and dont know people on them either so wont know a thing and not likley to either :wink: unless of course such a thing as a public outing/warning type ebay auction was to appear for sale worldwide for the masses to get wind . anyone brave enough :?:

I think anyone considering that idea would be leaving themselves wide open if they did.
until such time as its proven all you can do is speculate unfortunately.

EXACTLY ! hence the values will remain almost the same ,the only people who wont buy or think twice now are a mere few thousand on these forums . so it will be business as per usual

 

[Palifan]

One thing that I'm still amazed about after the amount of time that's gone into this thread is that nobody out there knows anyone who used to work at the Palitoy factory at that time. If the ex-general manager could be tracked down then it would probably help a whole lot with all of this.

I remember talking to one of the older guys at work once about my Star Wars collecting and showed him a Palitoy Luke 12 back card that had arrived for me. He laughed and said it had been a long time since he had seen that logo as he'd worked at the factory for a short while many years ago ! My excitement didn't last long though as it turned out that he'd worked there during the 1975 winter olympics, close but no prize

Anyway, I mention this in some hope that there must be other ex-employees out there who could maybe help out in some way? I'm not even sure how to go about finding general managers but I imagine there must be some sort of list somewhere (maybe JJ has it? :lol: ……..just kidding JJ you've done more than your fair share of hard work with this one).

One last thing is I remember being at the Bath & West toy fair a few years ago and getting into a slight disagreement with one of the vendors who was selling a Bepin Luke mounted on a bad repro card. The disagreement was just about if the light sabre was original or not and isn't important, but after it all calmed down he told me about the Palitoy factory closing down and how he had bought up a lot of their stock. I remember him saying he had so many boxed mail away Nien Nunb's that he used to give them away as business cards (not sure if he stamped the box or what?!). I don't know his name but I did remember his face as the owner of Global Collectables in Bristol -

https://plus.google.com/113017971244886660919/about?gl=us&hl=en

As I'm never in one place for very long at the moment I'm not able to pop in and talk with him (I'm pretty sure the shop's still there?), but thought if there are any Bristol guys on this forum then it might be worth a trip to see him. I apologies now if this owner is someone already on this forum or has been mentioned already but I thought I'd pass on what I know just incase it's of some help.

Ian

 

[jimbody1]

I fully agree with you on that point and i totally get where your coming from regarding trying to let people know. But you can't go around ruining dealers and other sellers reps on the suspicion of the items they are selling MAY not have been sealed at the factory especially if they're graded. This is the problem i was trying to highlight earlier in regards to those that think yes they're basicly knock off and those that own them being uncertain.

Itd be like me saying your graded moc sales are fraudulent because someone thinks it MAY have been sealed after the fact. I dare say you wouldnt be pleased. Its an unhappy state of affairs for the community to have to deal with.

 

[lee gray]

I want a mail away boxed nein numb business card, never know how to spell his name without looking

 

[Joe]

I want a mail away boxed nein numb business card, never know how to spell his name without looking

Guess you didn't look that time then either :lol: It's Nien NuNb :mrgreen:

 

[darthsatan]

one other thing i herd back from Craig Stevenson the collector that bought the 100s of Boba fetts from me back in the day and this is what he emailed me , i have included my email to him so as to be clear and up front with everyone.

jason

Whilst I get what you are trying to do here, am I the only person here who thinks the public posting of a personal email is very very wrong?
The deletion of the telephone number is irrelevant. The communication appears to give no written permission for it to be used for anything other than personal purposes.
I would suggest being careful here. If this was me (as somebody who is registered with the Information Commissioner's Office at work) I would be extremely pissed off and seeking redress.

 

[Palifan]

I want a mail away boxed nein numb business card, never know how to spell his name without looking

Guess you didn't look that time then either :lol: It's Nien NuNb :mrgreen:

I even looked it up and still got it wrong :lol:

Never mind, I've changed it now so that when the documentary comes out about this thread I'll look good

By the way, I do think this would make a great doco, in the spirt of King of Kong. If you don't know it, get to know it!!

 

[lee gray]

I want a mail away boxed nein numb business card, never know how to spell his name without looking

Guess you didn't look that time then either :lol: It's Nien NuNb :mrgreen:

Yeah was too lazy so mentioned it just incase

Always a few on ebay spelt wrong to get a bargain.

 

[edd_jedi]

One thing that I'm still amazed about after the amount of time that's gone into this thread is that nobody out there knows anyone who used to work at the Palitoy factory at that time. If the ex-general manager could be tracked down then it would probably help a whole lot with all of this.

Bear in mind that we were all kids back then and now are generally 30-40. Anybody old enough to work there during the 70s/80s will now be retired, and anybody old enough to be senior management will now likely be dead. It was well over 30 years ago.

 

[Palifan]

We can all live in hope though

The person I know from work is probably in his late fifties so I'm sure there must still be a fair few ex-employees still around. I do take your point about senior management though but it's still possible.

Just a thought - Ian