Resealed figure discovery debate - G.Kurtz Palitoy VC Jawa.

[ace]

i just want to say something important to me.

i did not think the card info that i knew for years was important when i first posted it.

i then started to see it was very important and then i tried to help the collects that have been affected and to get the troth out there to help and nothing more.

at first i took a lot of heat for people that just did not believe me, it has not been easy being the whistle blower but people needed to know the truth.

i have read people saying that will not find the list and i am now getting the odd person trying to point some blame on to me , that is really unfair and reticules, myself and a few others on here have worked so hard to get the truth out for all people affected.

after 4 days of going through boxes at my warehouse i have found the list and as i have promised from the start i am making it public so all collators know what figures are affected and so this accusations can now stop and we can now dedicate our energy to pinning down what Toni has been doing with these cards for the last 20 odd years.


this is the list i got from Arthur many years ago this is the collection of cards figures bubbles that Arthur told me he has sold to Toni , it was the deal that Toni admitted to buying from Toni, the blue pen is my old working out at the time the value of some of the items and as they are in dollars i must have been looking to off load some of them in the US at the time ?.


the last few photos is a envelop with Arthurs last none address and the other photo is a page of my very old contacts list with Arthur's last phone number is on it and also another page with Toni's contact info from back all these years a go, i came across all these documents in the same box and that was all there was in this box , i do not plan to go though anymore of my boxes as i think this is all that we could have hoped for. there must have been another list of carded figures but that dose not seem to be with this list ? if i come across that other list i will also put it up but i have not seen it yet .

well here is what you have all been wanting and you all know now what i have known for years i hope that you can see i have helped as much as i can and that everything i have said from the start is true and that everything i said i would find, tell or explain i have delivered on every time on here, i hope that will make some of the naysayers on here see i am a man of my word and have dlivered what i said i would, sorry it so long to find.


we now need to work as a real team and stick together and help each other find the links to each of the figures so we can warn others about figures that are not right and protect the figures that are not affected and are still good.

i will lave it with you collectors on here to work that one out , thanks for your continued hard work on this .

jason

 

[Anonymous]

if it was the light blue version i might have done but to be fair on him i earlier checked his completed items and hes been selling a few palitoy carded figures in the last few weeks before this all happened but seeing as his starting price is so cheap for this, he must be in the know or would have started at atleast £450

be interesting to see how this affects the market has anymore been said s by Toni or JJ

 

[kraftdermacht]

Guys, amazing CSI findings tonight. 12 of my 23 TT GM cards show a clearly different blacklight appearance! All my about 35 loose cards and non TT figures appear clear white under blacklight. 12 TT card are much more blueish! I took pictures but hard to photograph. Will post tomorrow. (I found one Palitoy Rotj loose card that is also bluish.)

Mattias, any idea about this?

Main reason was that I wanted to check my 2005 TT FX7 because of the odd bubble. It is also bluish btw.

Wolfgang

( perhaps not the biggest news after JJs post )

 

[jedisearcher]

Well fook me. Good job JJ.

 

[lee gray]

Nice list Ace, just to clarify, where it says for example 11 dengar german cards, does that mean just the cardback or a carded figure, it does make some sense seeing the amount of lobots and C3PO on there.

 

[ace]

Well fook me. Good job JJ.

i said i had it , what i forgot was that i own so much crap its incredible and that was a lot of work to find it and its cold up there at the wear house anyway you all have what i promised

now the real work starts

jason

 

[ace]

Nice list Ace, just to clarify, where it says for example 11 dengar german cards, does that mean just the cardback or a carded figure, it does make some sense seeing the amount of lobots and C3PO on there.

this was the list of cards figures only there was another list i remember that had all the carded figures , i remember there was no Yaks as they were very good back then and i would have remembered them but there was lost or pop up R2s and other last 17

the rest is hard to remember but there was a lot of variety and abound 12000 to 13000 carded figures.

this list is just card backs and lose figures to go on them

the bubbles are on the other lists

 

[jay4]

i wasnt goin to post this as i thought not worth it ? but after looking at pics on the evidence thread i thought maybe it was worth it
theres a black dot which is printed below the E in empire on my TT 2001/2002 han hoth gm card ,i do not have this black dot thingy on any of my other empire carded and dont recall seeing it anywhere else ? i could snap a better pic if required :wink: also ive seen some stress/blistering like this before a couple of times but no where near as bad as this is especially on a mint flat card and theres no evidence at all of it on the front so thought it also maybe worth me posting

This is not aimed at you Jay, but your post is a good example. I think the level of panic is getting a little extreme, a black or red dot is not an indication of a fake, just a bit of dirt during printing. The wrinkled cardback is also just a wrinkled cardback

There was previous post about dark lines through the ESB logo - shop bought examples also have this.

Others have previously said that cards wouldn't be pulped for a tiny error. The previously posted C3P0s had big issues with printing (not just a dot) and these issues have not yet been seen on shop sold examples.

As yet have we seen any definite fakes other than those with iron marks? It would appear that ROTJ (particularly Fett and HT) and GM English text cards are dubious but so far the only tells are iron marks and very bad printing. Even the Bossk feet scrapes could be legit.

The Kenner comparison idea is a good one, if you scrutinise these for long enough then I'm sure similar issues will be seen - but issues that are just part of mass production

Not many solutions in this post, but hopefully it will dampen the hysteria

On the other hand - I've never seen a black dot on an Empire card either :?

tbh im not panicing at all im just throwing in things that are not often seen which could be specificly relevant to any cards that maybe in question from TT , of circa 140 other cards i have not one with a wrinkled rear . as for the likes of amanaman i can understand that the bubble is huge and the pressure larger

 

[jedisearcher]

the bubbles are on the other lists

Aren't they the 6 cartons of bubbles in the middle on the 3rd page?

 

[Richard_H]

Awesome J well done. It'll take some studying but at least it's something which we can work with

 

[spoons]

i just want to say something important to me.

i did not think the card info that i knew for years was important when i first posted it.

i then started to see it was very important and then i tried to help the collects that have been affected and to get the troth out there to help and nothing more.

at first i took a lot of heat for people that just did not believe me, it has not been easy being the whistle blower but people needed to know the truth.

i have read people saying that will not find the list and i am now getting the odd person trying to point some blame on to me , that is really unfair and reticules, myself and a few others on here have worked so hard to get the truth out for all people affected.

after 4 days of going through boxes at my warehouse i have found the list and as i have promised from the start i am making it public so all collators know what figures are affected and so this accusations can now stop and we can now dedicate our energy to pinning down what Toni has been doing with these cards for the last 20 odd years.


this is the list i got from Arthur many years ago this is the collection of cards figures bubbles that Arthur told me he has sold to Toni , it was the deal that Toni admitted to buying from Toni, the blue pen is my old working out at the time the value of some of the items and as they are in dollars i must have been looking to off load some of them in the US at the time ?.


the last few photos is a envelop with Arthurs last none address and the other photo is a page of my very old contacts list with Arthur's last phone number is on it and also another page with Toni's contact info from back all these years a go, i came across all these documents in the same box and that was all there was in this box , i do not plan to go though anymore of my boxes as i think this is all that we could have hoped for. there must have been another list of carded figures but that dose not seem to be with this list ? if i come across that other list i will also put it up but i have not seen it yet .

well here is what you have all been wanting and you all know now what i have known for years i hope that you can see i have helped as much as i can and that everything i have said from the start is true and that everything i said i would find, tell or explain i have delivered on every time on here, i hope that will make some of the naysayers on here see i am a man of my word and have dlivered what i said i would, sorry it so long to find.


we now need to work as a real team and stick together and help each other find the links to each of the figures so we can warn others about figures that are not right and protect the figures that are not affected and are still good.

i will lave it with you collectors on here to work that one out , thanks for your continued hard work on this .

jason

It's even got Billy Boys phone no. Who needs a refund?

 

[edd_jedi]

Excellent work JJ. Although personally I believe you there's no hard evidence that the lists are cardbacks rather than carded figures, but it 100% does list unused bubbles which is very important.

 

[ace]

It's even got Billy Boys phone no. Who needs a refund?

?? which person on that list is this Billy boy ? i only know of a French doll collector going by that name ? which one is he on that phone list ?

jason

 

[escapist]

"Arther Talbot Collects Money" - smart guy.

 

[spoons]

Excellent work JJ. Although personally I believe you there's no hard evidence that the lists are cardbacks rather than carded figures, but it 100% does list unused bubbles which is very important.

To be fair the lower page details carded original so there is an apparent distinction

I'm amazed by the nos I GM Han Hoths, it's quite common but never thought there could be 500 odd.

I'd appreciate anyone with a no English writing version sending me a pm

 

[ace]

Excellent work JJ. Although personally I believe you there's no hard evidence that the lists are cardbacks rather than carded figures, but it 100% does list unused bubbles which is very important.

i am sorry it is card backs it lists the card what type and how many of the figures that go on them , i went into it in depth with Arthur at the time on the phone and everything else that was finished product i worked out prices to these cards i never put a price to it as i did not know what they were worth.

people need to start believe what i am saying , there is so much evidence here and we are lucking to still have this , it is a list of card backs as that was what i was offered and thats why Arthur sent me such detailed list.

jason

 

[spoons]

It's even got Billy Boys phone no. Who needs a refund?

?? which person on that list is this Billy boy ? i only know of a French doll collector going by that name ? which one is he on that phone list ?

jason

William Rodger in Shoreham - there's a post on rebelscum where he suggests German cards are fake 10 years ago. Shame he started ripping people off, there was a lot of knowledge there

 

[Palifan]

Great to see the list JJ!

It does say underneath the totals that there are 200 figures but no card backs for them, which does indicate to me that the list above this is referring to card backs and not sealed cards. I know this probably wouldn't hold up anywhere in court but it does seem more likely to be a card back list to me. That said though it would be good to see that sealed card back list if it should appear.

Great job and the cards in the highest numbers do seem to be the ones that were being bought up loose (which has been confirmed by a few different members on here).

Ian

 

[escapist]

The first thing I notice is the sum of the cardbacks, or at least what we believe to be cardbacks - 11,546.

Not quite 25,000. Just less than half.

For what it's worth, I'm just putting this on a spreadsheet and want to see if there's any comparatives with the Toni ebay spreadsheet I compiled.

 

[lee gray]

I did laugh at that list of names where it says Arthur Talbot..................collects money lol

"Arther Talbot Collects Money" - smart guy.

 

[ace]

It's even got Billy Boys phone no. Who needs a refund?

?? which person on that list is this Billy boy ? i only know of a French doll collector going by that name ? which one is he on that phone list ?

jason

William Rodger in Shoreham - there's a post on rebelscum where he suggests German cards are fake 10 years ago. Shame he started ripping people off, there was a lot of knowledge there

ok i see .

well older traders have know about this for years ? it was not a secret back then really , its just most of the older dealers stopped trading when the internet started up and there knowledge was forgot ?

jason

 

[Palifan]

The first thing I notice is the sum of the cardbacks, or at least what we believe to be cardbacks - 11,546.

Not quite 25,000. Just less than half.

For what it's worth, I'm just putting this on a spreadsheet and want to see if there's any comparatives with the Toni ebay spreadsheet I compiled.

I thought the 25,000 was for everything including the sealed cards? (I think JJ mentioned there being somewhere around 11-13,000 sealed cards on the last page).

Ian

 

[Dublinjeff]

Jason, I was wondering just one thing. You say this is the list you got from Arthur..Is that his handwritten list with your blue pen additions/workings out added after?

 

[mr_palitoy]

Great work JJ. No doubt in mind mind that is a cardbacks list. MOCs are listed underneath and the bit with bubbles mentions being able to attach them to the cards, ie cardbacks.

The list of figures is pretty much what we expected. I bet the loose figures Toni has been buying up are where there are many more cardbacks than loose figures.

Cheers Jason

 

[lee gray]

If you had purchased the unused cardbacks and bubbles Ace, what would you have done with them ?

I feel like saying TOYTONI...GUILTY AS CHARGED (almost)

 

[Dublinjeff]

it is a list of card backs as that was what i was offered and thats why Arthur sent me such detailed list.

jason

You appear to have answered that here...

 

[_Lee_]

Great Jason,thank you for coming through.

I must admit I'm concerned by the 138 ESB cards-no new characters.That could mean many things,but I for one hope no logo cards were there.

LEE

 

[JuniorChubb]

The list has finally appeared...

If this is as described thanks for posting JJ.

Not quite the 25,000 I was expecting to see (maybe I misread earlier posts) but very revealing nonetheless. Especially the high number of Threepios, Bossks, Hoth Troopers (I think), Luke Bespins and Farmboys and a few of the other common suspects. Seems to correlate with what has been seen and posted so far.

What caught my eye was the mention of un-usable bubbles.

Would 3 boxes cover this many cards? If so have bubbles been sourced from elsewhere, repro bubbles maybe?

 

[ace]

If you had purchased the unused cardbacks and bubbles Ace, what would you have done with them ?

I feel like saying TOYTONI...GUILTY AS CHARGED (almost)

well i would have sold the lose figures off as they sold well , the weapons were also good money and the card i think would have sold like hot cakes , and i used to go to Germany and i knew Dirk that used to run the German unofficial fan club so i could have done something with him to help sell them and they would look cool and with the other carded figures there was plenty to of ways to get my money back if i paid the 10K ?

but it never happened

j

 

[spoons]

What caught my eye was the mention of un-usable bubbles.

Would 3 boxes cover this many cards? If so have bubbles been sourced from elsewhere, repro bubbles maybe?

Repro with dimples?