Resealed figure discovery debate - G.Kurtz Palitoy VC Jawa.

[Stormtrooper37]

I've been keeping out of this discussion and debate as I wasn't sure it was even worth commenting on and seemed all in all like speculation and dragging someone's name through the mud etc.

Now reading over the last few pages, I'm fairly sure this ToyToni guy (or girl :? thought Toni ending in an I was how it was spelt for a girl :? - anyway that's for another discussion :lol: ) has been basically forging certain MOC's. I always wondered why a lot of GM MOC's were so minty.

But it still needs to be established if these MOC's JJ brought to FF4 originated from TT.

 

[Grant_C]

God I did not think we would see evidence this damning,,, looks like he has profected his technique over time.

Before was accusations and hearsay, but this is hard evidence in my eyes..

These are real cards that have been fake sealed. True.

By who is inconclusive.

If this can be verified it will be another step forward.

 

[itfciain]

Having seen some pretty hard evidence this afternoon (albeit no proof that they came from Toni) - and piecing together all of the things that have been said in this thread then it is hard to draw any other conclusion that the one most people are now reaching.

From a personal point of view, it is also gutting to see that more and more pieces being added to the 'suspicious list' - I accepted that my Palitoy C3P0, HST and Lobot might well have come from this batch - but I didn't pay huge sums for them. However it now looks like a couple of my larger purchases - Minty Clipper ESB Hammerhead and UKG90 ESB TFP might also might be mixed up in this whole sorry mess

 

[tiefighterboy]

God I did not think we would see evidence this damning,,, looks like he has profected his technique over time.

Before was accusations and hearsay, but this is hard evidence in my eyes..

These are real cards that have been fake sealed. True.

By who is inconclusive.

If this can be verified it will be another step forward.

Actually seeing these up close....I agree....these are forged....not all heat sealed....but with a ******* iron and some with spray adhesive........wow. Like I said I can be wrong and I was wrong.

Time to experiment.

 

[tigerham]

Hi Todd and hope you are well my friend. ~ Give me a minute to go through the thread and pick a few out. This wasn't my main point. My point was that no one is perfect and we have all made mistakes and that IF this comes out to be proved true then to not judge and understand.

 

[skywalker]

I would love to know how many he has sold and how much money he has made over the last Twenty years,,, best £10k investment he ever made...

 

[skywalker]

Hi Todd and hope you are well my friend. ~ Give me a minute to go through the thread and pick a few out. This wasn't my main point. My point was that no one is perfect and we have all made mistakes and that IF this comes out to be proved true then to not judge and understand.

No offence mate but if it comes out to be true I doubt anyone will want to try and understand why he has done it,,... It's obvious.

 

[Bramistuta25]

Sorry Ham, but picking out a few flippant comments is not going to help, maybe you should understand them and not judge.

If this does come out as true which I think is a foregone conclusion there are not gonna be ANY understanding collectors out there who have spent their hard earned cash on what they have been sold deceptively. It will be a massive amount of money and will hit SW Collecting in an unprecedented way!

 

[Captainsolo1978]

Try to understand ? Sorry but if he has knowingly been creating sealed figures and selling them to us at full price that is dishonest. He surely cannot plead ignorance.

If this is true lots of us will have lost money and will be very pissed off !

 

[tiefighterboy]

Hi Todd and hope you are well my friend. ~ Give me a minute to go through the thread and pick a few out. This wasn't my main point. My point was that no one is perfect and we have all made mistakes and that IF this comes out to be proved true then to not judge and understand.

It is true we all make mistakes....but to con people for decades is not something that I call a minor or a one time mistake. It is clear many of these are crude attempts and some better. I scoffed at first...but now I admit...it has been done. I think this thread actually is civil. There are many collectors on this thread who despise each other, but have all held back for the sake of this issue. They have not attacked each other, Joiner or Toni. Merely discussed and observed.

 

[Stormtrooper37]

Hi Todd and hope you are well my friend. ~ Give me a minute to go through the thread and pick a few out. This wasn't my main point. My point was that no one is perfect and we have all made mistakes and that IF this comes out to be proved true then to not judge and understand.

No offence mate but if it comes out to be true I doubt anyone will want to try and understand why he has done it,,... It's obvious.

No-one is perfect and yes we've all made mistakes, but this is FRAUD and if it is true and evidence can be backed up to this effect then he should have the book thrown at him.

 

[escapist]

I would love to know how many he has sold and how much money he has made over the last Twenty years,,, best £10k investment he ever made...

Well, I summed all values featured on his ebay feedback. This is between 2007 and 2013.

Just under £26k.

I don't feel bad mentioning this figure as its publicly available on his ebay page.

But then we factor in he's been selling these for maybe 11 years before then on ebay (he joined in 98). And he sold at shows and on his website.

**** loads then.

 

[x-pack]

These are a few I took at Fordingbridge. The others on the previous page are better.

Grant got me to take these. The first one is obviously a loose bubble from one of these cards. The others two are dodgy melted seals.

 

[Stormtrooper37]

I would love to know how many he has sold and how much money he has made over the last Twenty years,,, best £10k investment he ever made...

Well, I summed all values featured on his ebay feedback. This is between 2007 and 2013.

Just under £26k.

I don't feel bad mentioning this figure as its publicly available on his ebay page.

But then we factor in he's been selling these for maybe 11 years before then on ebay (he joined in 98). And he sold at shows and on his website.

**** loads then.

People have been jailed for Benefit fraud for less than this

 

[Grant_C]

I think this thread actually is civil. There are many collectors on this thread who despise each other, but have all held back for the sake of this issue. They have not attacked each other, Joiner or Toni. Merely discussed and observed.

Yeah- and that has been the one great thing about this.

 

[lee gray]

i never knew there were people who hated each other posting here, thought it was one big happy family

 

[Stormtrooper37]

These are a few I took at Fordingbridge. The others on the previous page are better.

Grant got me to take these. The first one is obviously a loose bubble from one of these cards. The others two are dodgy melted seals.

Barry, thanks for the photo's

Were these the ones JJ brought along ? and were they all Double Stem MOC's with the dodgy seals?

 

[tiefighterboy]

I think this thread actually is civil. There are many collectors on this thread who despise each other, but have all held back for the sake of this issue. They have not attacked each other, Joiner or Toni. Merely discussed and observed.

Yeah- and that has been the one great thing about this.

Yes...it brought us together for sure.

Everybody checked their ego's and issues at the door.

 

[itfciain]

I think this thread actually is civil. There are many collectors on this thread who despise each other, but have all held back for the sake of this issue. They have not attacked each other, Joiner or Toni. Merely discussed and observed.

Yeah- and that has been the one great thing about this.

Yes...it brought us together for sure.

Everybody checked their ego's and issues at the door.

Very true - and this thread would not have lasted on RS either.

 

[tigerham]

.

 

[tiefighterboy]

i never knew there were people who hated each other posting here, thought it was one big happy family

Where have you been for the last ten years Lee? **** the last 20 for that matter. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Many personalities showed for this party. :wink:

 

[jedisearcher]

A Rhetorical question for all members. Do you all have a clean conscience and have never done anything wrong in your Life so far? No matter how big or small the mistake it is all the same principal.

I, personally, choose to understand why rather than judge. Maybe I am lucky in the sense I have learnt by my mistakes along the way and I understand that some have not but it is never too late to change and I also understand that to come clean about something you need others to understand and not judge or else it makes it so much more difficult to come out.

I do not know the truth in this matter and their are two people who do and it is up to them to come clean for the sake of themselves and others in this hobby. This does not have to go further than this hobby and can be solved within as long as everyone sticks together and helps. Throwing abuse and immature remarks is one way to throw fuel to the fire so do you think this is right?

It's not about who is right or wrong it is about what is right. It does not matter for reputations as these mean nothing as one does not know another fully by a reputation.

Like I mentioned before, I do not know the truth but going by what I have been reading over the last few days their have been remarks which are certainly not needed in this extremely fragile situation.

I sincerely hope this gets resolved soon for the sake of everyone.

Sincerely

Ham

So protect the perpetrator and screw the victims then?

Your idea of justice is the wrong way round.

The lack of true anger in this thread has been amazing to me, I've seen much more when sellers don't send out a couple of items for a fraction of the values Toni is defrauding people of. Check some of the more lively watch out threads.

And out of interest, how does keeping things in the community get me my money back, along with everyone else's?

People aren't going to let this one go away if it's proved beyond doubt what's been going on, and nor should they.

 

[**Delboy75**]

Mmmm, not sure what to make of those posted they look nothing like what I've seen come via Toni before.
Let's see if grants contact confirms they came from Toytoni before we jump to conclusions.

Not looking good tho chaps, Toni is not exactly acting like someone who is innocent. If it was me I would be all over this thread fighting my corner.

 

[tigerham]

.

 

[mr_palitoy]

Toni should compensate people who are out of pocket with boxes of unused cardbacks. And burn the bubbles.



Jason

 

[Bramistuta25]

Stay on target...

 

[lee gray]

The thing that annoys me the most out of this whole situation is that, the ROTJ carded light blue Fett was one of my fav carded figures and as soon as I would have had some spare cash would have contemplated getting yet another one, but now I will never be able to because no matter what the outcome is, there will always be doubt.

 

[_Lee_]

I think this thread actually is civil. There are many collectors on this thread who despise each other, but have all held back for the sake of this issue. They have not attacked each other, Joiner or Toni. Merely discussed and observed.

Yeah- and that has been the one great thing about this.

Agreed.

I dont like the fact that anyone has/will lose out from this.As i said,i have friends who are gutted,and this could be the final straw for some.Whether or not i dont get on with someone,i dont like seeing anyone ripped off and stung.This will be hard to bare for many,and i can only sympathise.

One thing is for sure,this has changed Palitoy collecting forever and broke a lot of hearts in the process.

Lee

 

[tiefighterboy]

The thing that annoys me the most out of this whole situation is that, the ROTJ carded light blue Fett was one of my fav carded figures and as soon as I would have had some spare cash would have contemplated getting yet another one, but now I will never be able to because no matter what the outcome is, there will always be doubt.

but you can get it on the cheap. :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[tigerham]

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