4-lom looks like a ugrade possibly :?
Thanks for sharing- nice cardbacks :wink:
Thanks for sharing- nice cardbacks :wink:
Resealed figure discovery debate - G.Kurtz Palitoy VC Jawa.
- Thread starter Grant_C
- Start date
Once a figure and bubble are removed from a Toni card, does that card then become 100 percent acceptable to sell on as a genuine cardback or because of the leftover marks from the toni applied bubble, is the card although a genuine item still thought of as dodgy and needs to mention its Toni stock so might be worthless ?
mr_palitoy
Sith Lord
lee gray said:
A cardbacks a cardback in my books, Tonis ones have a hell of a lot less bubble rip on them, and occasional bonus iron marks. Swings and roundabouts.
The original stock were original unused cardbacks so no need to mention Tonis name in my opinion. They are quite easy to spot.
cheers Jason
**Delboy75**
Jedi Master
- Joined
- Oct 18, 2008
- Messages
- 625
No jay, no reply from Jason.
Here are my Palitoy ESB 45 back "B" Single Stem cardbacks...
Darth Vader, no visible number but only to prove it existed with Single Stem bubble.
Han Solo Original, "04" number.
C-3PO RL, "015" number.
R2-D2 Sensorscope, "02" or "012"number, difficult to say. Look the up side down bubble position..!!!
TIE Fighter Pilot, "13" number.
Death Star Droid, "02" number.
Luke Hoth, "03" number.. Check the dimple in the "0".
4-LOM, no visible number but only to prove it existed with Single Stem bubble.
Bespin Security Guard Black, "01" number.
Cloud Car Pilot, "02" number.
AT-AT Commander, "01" number.
AT-AT Commander, "03" number.
JC
Darth Vader, no visible number but only to prove it existed with Single Stem bubble.
Han Solo Original, "04" number.
C-3PO RL, "015" number.
R2-D2 Sensorscope, "02" or "012"number, difficult to say. Look the up side down bubble position..!!!
TIE Fighter Pilot, "13" number.
Death Star Droid, "02" number.
Luke Hoth, "03" number.. Check the dimple in the "0".
4-LOM, no visible number but only to prove it existed with Single Stem bubble.
Bespin Security Guard Black, "01" number.
Cloud Car Pilot, "02" number.
AT-AT Commander, "01" number.
AT-AT Commander, "03" number.
JC
_Lee_
Sith Lord
- Joined
- May 7, 2008
- Messages
- 2,445
After reading through the last few pages of this thread,it has occured that more confusion is being caused by apparent card qtys,what was sealed by Toni etc.Im not being off here,but i could sell all my collection saying that i had them since childhood,having bought them over the past few years.To think that Vectis only sells 'childhood collections' is horseshit in my opinion,and it is dangerous to think that.We all know deep down that the majority of top quality MOC Palitoy ESB/ROTJ out there originated from Toni,but there isnt any concrete evidence to prove that and that is why we are in this mess.
Jason,i have said this before but i seriously think you are creating more confusion with your cardback matrix by listing all these suspect card/bubble variations and also what was sealed by Toni.Some people are fickle and will take that as gospel,when clearly it isnt the case.I think you are getting too far in with that numbers thrown around,and are doubling the confusion.I fully understand that you have been affected by this,and i feel for you but you need to wind it in a little.Maybe some people are doing all they can to deny this happened,and your matrix is convincing them something is up when it isnt.Perhaps they are trying to prove their thousands of pounds collections are good to go and will listen to anything to be convinced.Again,im not having a pop at you,but it seems that you are adding confusion.I do however,take my hat off to you for all the time you put in to this.It says a lot about you
I am so gutted about this.The hobby is tarnished forever,no matter what happens.
Jason,i have said this before but i seriously think you are creating more confusion with your cardback matrix by listing all these suspect card/bubble variations and also what was sealed by Toni.Some people are fickle and will take that as gospel,when clearly it isnt the case.I think you are getting too far in with that numbers thrown around,and are doubling the confusion.I fully understand that you have been affected by this,and i feel for you but you need to wind it in a little.Maybe some people are doing all they can to deny this happened,and your matrix is convincing them something is up when it isnt.Perhaps they are trying to prove their thousands of pounds collections are good to go and will listen to anything to be convinced.Again,im not having a pop at you,but it seems that you are adding confusion.I do however,take my hat off to you for all the time you put in to this.It says a lot about you
I am so gutted about this.The hobby is tarnished forever,no matter what happens.
mr_palitoy
Sith Lord
Palitoy78 said:After reading through the last few pages of this thread,it has occured that more confusion is being caused by apparent card qtys,what was sealed by Toni etc.Im not being off here,but i could sell all my collection saying that i had them since childhood,having bought them over the past few years.To think that Vectis only sells 'childhood collections' is horseshit in my opinion,and it is dangerous to think that.We all know deep down that the majority of top quality MOC Palitoy ESB/ROTJ out there originated from Toni,but there isnt any concrete evidence to prove that and that is why we are in this mess.
Jason,i have said this before but i seriously think you are creating more confusion with your cardback matrix by listing all these suspect card/bubble variations and also what was sealed by Toni.Some people are fickle and will take that as gospel,when clearly it isnt the case.I think you are getting too far in with that numbers thrown around,and are doubling the confusion.I fully understand that you have been affected by this,and i feel for you but you need to wind it in a little.Maybe some people are doing all they can to deny this happened,and your matrix is convincing them something is up when it isnt.Perhaps they are trying to prove their thousands of pounds collections are good to go and will listen to anything to be convinced.Again,im not having a pop at you,but it seems that you are adding confusion.I do however,take my hat off to you for all the time you put in to this.It says a lot about you
I am so gutted about this.The hobby is tarnished forever,no matter what happens.
Are you saying we are better off just sticking our head in the sands and ignoring the problem?
I have tried listing what is known to be genuine and those pieces thought to be Tonis.
It's a guide, not gospel.
cheers Jason
mr_palitoy
Sith Lord
panastur said:Here are my Palitoy ESB 45 back "B" Single Stem cardbacks...
Darth Vader, no visible number but only to prove it existed with Single Stem bubble.
Han Solo Original, "04" number.
C-3PO RL, "015" number.
R2-D2 Sensorscope, "02" or "012"number, difficult to say. Look the up side down bubble position..!!!
TIE Fighter Pilot, "13" number.
Death Star Droid, "02" number.
Luke Hoth, "03" number.. Check the dimple in the "0".
4-LOM, no visible number but only to prove it existed with Single Stem bubble.
Bespin Security Guard Black, "01" number.
Cloud Car Pilot, "02" number.
AT-AT Commander, "01" number.
AT-AT Commander, "03" number.
JC
Great stuff, those numbers match all the numbers already posted on my guide, so it's good to have confirmation.
cheers Jason
_Lee_
Sith Lord
- Joined
- May 7, 2008
- Messages
- 2,445
Jason,
Im not saying we should bury our heads in the sand but i dont think we should be banding around information that isnt proven true.It seems as though everyone is going to deem every Palitoy suspect now which isnt the case.Also,people shouldnt be reading that all Vectis stuff is good as it came from collections from childhood,or with good provenance.This situation itself makes the word Provenance redundant it seems.We all thought Toni was provenance,but it proves that some people can fool others.The difference here is that JJ has shown Provenance in the way of his lists,but there are people who will not beleive that alone.
Im not saying we should bury our heads in the sand but i dont think we should be banding around information that isnt proven true.It seems as though everyone is going to deem every Palitoy suspect now which isnt the case.Also,people shouldnt be reading that all Vectis stuff is good as it came from collections from childhood,or with good provenance.This situation itself makes the word Provenance redundant it seems.We all thought Toni was provenance,but it proves that some people can fool others.The difference here is that JJ has shown Provenance in the way of his lists,but there are people who will not beleive that alone.
mr_palitoy
Sith Lord
I never said all vectis are good, I said a lot of it was. There are Toni pieces they have fold over the years.
A lot if the recent edits for the guide are about documenting which bubble types were used with which cardbacks and figures. Have found that really interesting to do. Maybe I should just give up and delete the guide.
Jason
A lot if the recent edits for the guide are about documenting which bubble types were used with which cardbacks and figures. Have found that really interesting to do. Maybe I should just give up and delete the guide.
Jason
**Delboy75** said:
thanks mate , i do wander why jason joiner didnt answer that to either of us ? seems odd when he made sure every other single question put to him before and after was answered yet he just skipped by yours completely ignoring it ? and he chose to do nothing but point finger at tony about every other moc going when i asked about him having these 500 hoth troopers with ironed upside down bubbles i implied he maybe been part off ,
Palifan
Sith Lord
- Joined
- Oct 28, 2012
- Messages
- 4,911
**Delboy75** said:
Not sure if you've contacted JJ directly on the email he posted but it might be worth a shot as I'm not sure how much time he's had to check this thread of late. Just a thought (and sorry if you have already tried his personal email).
Ian
Palifan
Sith Lord
- Joined
- Oct 28, 2012
- Messages
- 4,911
It's good to see the used card backs with numbers on them as it clearly shows what bubble type goes with what figure.
Does this definitely mean that any moc out there with the same card back number have to have these numbered bubble types attached to make them legit? If it does then something is more than strange if any of the ones originating from TT don't have the same numbered bubbles (which seems to be the case if only the 03 ones have shown up on this card back run). Oh and don't give up on all of this Jason,you've put to much work into all of this and I think you just need to make sure that your findings are what's known at the moment but still not completely proven due to TT's lack of response.
Ian
Does this definitely mean that any moc out there with the same card back number have to have these numbered bubble types attached to make them legit? If it does then something is more than strange if any of the ones originating from TT don't have the same numbered bubbles (which seems to be the case if only the 03 ones have shown up on this card back run). Oh and don't give up on all of this Jason,you've put to much work into all of this and I think you just need to make sure that your findings are what's known at the moment but still not completely proven due to TT's lack of response.
Ian
Palitoy78 said:
Hi Palitoy78,
I can understand that, for some people, this big amount of information isn't easy to handle and a bit confusing....but, thanks to Jason "Mr.Palitoy" work and another couple of guys here we can clearly discard a good variety of faked/Forged TT cards.
Summarized, all this work has lead to prove that:
- All unmarked/un-numbered "Single Stem" bubbles are REPRO BUBBLES.
- Toni got a stock of "03" Single Stem bubbles, but he used them to improve his sealing method. Bad seal(matted surface) with smashed "03" marking (no relief)
- All square bubbles (no stem) with rigid feeling are REPRO BUBBLES.
All we can do is just to thank all these guys who spend their time and share their info for all of us.
So please, don't give up....!!!
JC :roll:
finestcomics
Padawan
- Joined
- Jan 16, 2013
- Messages
- 173
panastur said:Palitoy78 said:
Hi Palitoy78,
I can understand that, for some people, this big amount of information isn't easy to handle and a bit confusing....but, thanks to Jason "Mr.Palitoy" work and another couple of guys here we can clearly discard a good variety of faked/Forged TT cards.
Summarized, all this work has lead to prove that:
- All unmarked/un-numbered "Single Stem" bubbles are REPRO BUBBLES.
- Toni got a stock of "03" Single Stem bubbles, but he used them to improve his sealing method. Bad seal(matted surface) with smashed "03" marking (no relief)
- All square bubbles (no stem) with rigid feeling are REPRO BUBBLES.
All we can do is just to thank all these guys who spend their time and share their info for all of us.
So please, don't give up....!!!
JC :roll:
I'm just trying to follow the last yellow-bolded point you made. Are you saying this is a repro bubble:
If it isn't, why and how do you definite "rigid feeling?"
finestcomics said:I'm just trying to follow the last yellow-bolded point you made. Are you saying this is a repro bubble:
If it isn't, why and how do you definite "rigid feeling?"
AFA cases are a real problem. You just can't feel the bubble...
Also, the seal must be this kind:
JC
