Production vs Pre-production - Opinions please?!

[Bramistuta25]

Hi guys,

In this day and age the price of a loose Yak Face @ £150 and a VCJ @ £400+. I was wondering what people's opinions were on whether they prefer production or pre production??

For instance, You can buy a nice VCJ (of which their are hundreds, possibly thousands) for around £400 ish whereas you could buy a nice graded ESB, Return of the Jedi Proof or even a First 12 character Revenge Proof Card!!

Or you can buy a POTF Yak Face (which I know are pretty rare) for the same price as a pre-production POTF Cromalin!!

I am moving this way in my collecting as I believe that (although prices will probably go up) Production items such as MOC Figures will always be available. So for me, it would be interesting to see what people's thoughts and opinions are??

Let me know what you think??!

Bram

 

[jambobbyb]

Hi Bram, Interesting question, I have been toying with the idea of trying to get a Vader proof card of some description but the whole pre production area seems to be a complete mine field one in which you can quite quickly make a rather "costly" mistake and i think this puts a lot of people off.
James

 

[Bramistuta25]

Hi James

I think it's like any other part of collecting buddy... If you ask enough questions and get the eight answers from the right people then you should be fine.

I think your best bet would be a Revenge Proof although they aren't cheap either. First 12 ones will never be but at around £600 it's no more than a graded VCJ.

Bram

 

[Joe]

Simply put, even if pre production pieces trump production pieces in almost every category (rarity, importance, displayability etc) they just don't appeal to the majority of collectors.

People normally collect what they played with as a child. Proof cards and hardcopies don't really fit the bill for collectors who are just trying to rekindle their youth with some loose figures and vehicles. It's very rare that anyone ever starts out collecting pre prod because there is a lot to learn, the prices are quite high and I honestly think you have to have gained an interest and appreciation in them over time to actually want to collect stuff like that.

I tend to find the people that are the most interested in pre prod have been around a decent amount of time. They've chased, bought and sold production stuff, finished off a loose set, gone after coins and whatever else and they jump into the pre prod world where they usually find it a much more rewarding area of the hobby. The items they are buying played a part in the creation of the toys they love after all and are in many cases truly unique. It then becomes glaringly obvious to them that spending money on production items isn't worth it really because hardly any of them are "rare" at all.

 

[Bramistuta25]

BINGO!!

I think you just summed me up in a nut shell... Joe O = Soul reader!!

Thanks for the input buddy. It may see the end of this thread, although I would like more opinions. :wink:

 

[jedisearcher]

Can't add much, but I think the cost/value is a massive issue for the early pre-prod stuff. The cost is clearly high, but establishing a value to me is a killer. Until you know what something is worth it's hard to stump up the cash, and its not like you can check ebay for what the last Cromalin or First shot sold for.

That alone puts me off, because no one likes getting ripped off. Trusted contacts and exprience are everything I guess.

The proofs are different in that they do come up quite regularly, but they aren't 'that' different wheras the early pre-prod stuff is very different (like unpainted items) or uncut sheets or cromalins. But then they costs about 10x what a proof does, so you can't win :lol:

If I had some spare cash I'd definitely be diving in to the market in some way.

 

[shawn_k]

I think Joe hit it on the head. All I'll add is that when I saw the two FS posts last night, I knew which one I'd rather spend the money on. A POTF MOC Yak Face will get more Oohs and Aahs from more collectors, but the cromalin is the truly rare piece and one that I'd certainly appreciate more. This is something though that all comes down to collectors tastes. There's nothing wrong either way and we all collect differently.

 

[Joe]

I think Joe hit it on the head. All I'll add is that when I saw the two FS posts last night, I knew which one I'd rather spend the money on. A POTF MOC Yak Face will get more Oohs and Aahs from more collectors, but the cromalin is the truly rare piece and one that I'd certainly appreciate more. This is something though that all comes down to collectors tastes. There's nothing wrong either way and we all collect differently.

I've just had a look at RS to see if I could spot what you were referring to. Pretty sure you meant the POTF Yak Face production figure for $3500 or a POTF Han Carbonite Cromalin for $3250. I definitely know where my $3k+ would be going if I had it! :lol:

 

[edd_jedi]

You seem to be talking about value, so my response will be the same as always - rarity has little or no impact on value, it is all about demand. Of course a cromalin or prototype figure is going to be more rare than a production piece, but will more people want it? Probably not.

 

[shawn_k]

You seem to be talking about value, so my response will be the same as always - rarity has little or no impact on value, it is all about demand. Of course a cromalin or prototype figure is going to be more rare than a production piece, but will more people want it? Probably not.

That's definitely a good point Edd. The proto market right now has seen a huge spike as far as value goes, but a POTF Yak has always been a high valued piece where as proof cards and cromalins at one time really paled in comparison. I still would rather own one over the other, but if you're playing vintage like the stock market, than the POTF Yak seems more like the sure thing. If you had to sell a cromalin a few years down the road we just don't know what things will be like where the Yak you'd most likely be able to recoup the cost and possibly more.

 

[RKW1138]

To put it crudely I see proofs and cromalins as nothing more than Windows print test pages.

First shots are likely in the hundreds from each factory and are really nothing more than unpainted production figures.

I can see the appeal of the original airbrushed photos for the card backs and the original wax sculpts or first hard copies but these are way out of my price range.

 

[edd_jedi]

The proto market right now has seen a huge spike as far as value goes, but a POTF Yak has always been a high valued piece where as proof cards and cromalins at one time really paled in comparison..

Yep I picked up several Luke Bespin proof cards 5-10 years ago for a fraction of what they sell for these days, I once paid £75 for an ESB proof!

 

[Grant]

Simply put, even if pre production pieces trump production pieces in almost every category (rarity, importance, displayability etc) they just don't appeal to the majority of collectors.

People normally collect what they played with as a child. Proof cards and hardcopies don't really fit the bill for collectors who are just trying to rekindle their youth with some loose figures and vehicles. It's very rare that anyone ever starts out collecting pre prod because there is a lot to learn, the prices are quite high and I honestly think you have to have gained an interest and appreciation in them over time to actually want to collect stuff like that.

I tend to find the people that are the most interested in pre prod have been around a decent amount of time. They've chased, bought and sold production stuff, finished off a loose set, gone after coins and whatever else and they jump into the pre prod world where they usually find it a much more rewarding area of the hobby. The items they are buying played a part in the creation of the toys they love after all and are in many cases truly unique. It then becomes glaringly obvious to them that spending money on production items isn't worth it really because hardly any of them are "rare" at all.

Awesome post Joe. Bram I know your looking for more input from everyone, this post pretty much sums it all up for me at least.

 

[bobbybobs]

Bram my interest has also risen a bit lately in regards to pre-production pieces and I am thinking of buying one or two myself this year. Joe is deadright that production pieces appeal to most collectors due to their nostalgic value. For me though, the pre-production stuff also has immense appeal because of the historical importance attached to them.

I'm keen to pay my dues a bit more to the production market before I move onto to the pre-production.

Christian

 

[Bramistuta25]

Thanks for all the input guys... Keep it coming!

 

[olisuds]

To put it crudely I see proofs and cromalins as nothing more than Windows print test pages.

First shots are likely in the hundreds from each factory and are really nothing more than unpainted production figures.

I can see the appeal of the original airbrushed photos for the card backs and the original wax sculpts or first hard copies but these are way out of my price range.

I don't know if I agree with that. First shots might have been produced in moderately large quantities (not hundreds though) but they certainly don't exist in those quantities today. For most figures there are less than 10 first shots in existence. Quantities of 2-5 is probably a good estimate of quantity for most. Most of which either can't be accounted for or are locked up in black hole collections. For some figures no first shots have yet been found.

First shots aren't always unpainted. Unpainted ones tend to be even rarer and harder to acquire. And they are certainly not just unpainted production figures. They are often molded in non production colours or have different colour or molded accessories.

So in my eyes that makes first shots pretty special.

And you don't have to break the bank with sculpts and hardcopies. Protomolded figures are an intermediate stage in the prototype process and pretty interesting and unique pieces that certainly can't be compared to a production figure. They're not even molded from the same steel molds that production figures are.

 

[x-pack]

I would like something as rare as a pre-production piece in my collection. Just one thing would do it. It's a little bit of history. The cost is massively off putting though.

 

[palitoyjunky]

Have always thought about having a revenge proof card in my collection :roll: Just always put my production wants ahead of any pre-production or prototypes I have ever considered.
Joe pretty much summed it up! I have a passion and deep desire for what I had and remember as a kid. That's what it's all about :wink:

 

[Bramistuta25]

Sorry but I cannot resist a shameless plug!!

http://www.starwarsforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=18986

Lovely Revenge Proofs!!

 

[Richard_H]

Production all the way for me. Where does pre-production start? Drawings, models...?

It's all about what I can touch and display.