PL 2018-2019 Thread
- Thread starter lejackal
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Giggs was playing when he was 40 and was still bettter than most players now! This is a funny discussion. Owen, Shearer, Fowler Gerrard, Scholes, Cole, Yorke, Sherringham, Keane, Cantona, Lampard, Terry, Vidic, Ovemars, Berkamp, Henry, Adams, Drogba, Beckam. I could go on forever the qaulity isn't their any more.
Stuart Skinner
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theforceuk said:
Do you not think Aguero, Silva, De Bruyne, Sane, Salah, Firmino, Mane, Van Dijk, Hazard, Willian, Kante, Augbayeang (whatever his name is), Kane, Ericksen, Alli, Fernandinho, Richarlison, Martial, Sterling, Pogba, Doucoure. I could go on too are not class players, you've picked players scanning a 20 year period, these are all in our league now and it's only the cream of the crop, the way Liverpool, City and Spurs play the game is scintillating
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Stuart Skinner said:
No their not as good as those players, Pogba as good as Keane you kidding me? Firmino, Mane and Van Dijk are you for real? Imagine Shearer in that City team.
Put it this way that Leicester team of 2016 wouldn't have won the league in 1996 or 2006 and the France team that just won the world cup is the worst team to win the thing for decades. All those players I mentioned span 20 year periods because most of them were at the top for 10 - 15 years and I could name a lot more.
90% of the players now don't give a **** if they win anything or not their just here for the money.
Stuart Skinner
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theforceuk said:
Yeah but you're naming players who have finished their careers, a lot of these players are young and when they finish their careers in ten years time could well have achieved far more than these players, it's not comparable. And like Weasel said football has changed massively even in the last 15 years, someone like Beckham probably wouldn't get in any of those top teams today as you don't see these teams play with wide men like they did back then, formations and tactics are totally different. You named Owen first, he wouldn't dislodge any of Liverpools front three in the current team.
Stuart Skinner
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and I can't believe you've named Vidic and not Ferdinand
theforceuk said:
Giggs is an absolute exception though. Bar Teddy Sheringham I cant think of any other player who was still able to compete at that age. Even then Giggsy was a bit part player in his last few years. Not that there is any shame in that aged in your late 30's.
Sheringham was an exception though, as right through his career his game was based on his speed of thought and his positional sense rather than speed/stamina or any other physical asset. He was a unique player, I can't think of many like him. Jari Litmanen possibly.
You've also named the two most over rated players in PL history, IMO. Cantona and Beckham. I have NEVER understood why Utd fans love Cantona so much. He was a good player, but so was RVN, Yorke etc and they don't attract half as much love. As the saying goes, you can tell how important a player is to a team by how the cope when he goes. Utd after Ronaldo leaves surrender their title. Pool after Suarez goes drop from near title winners to sixth. Spurs went down hill after Bale left etc. After Cantona left Utd won, the PL, FAC and CL. The team was palpably BETTER without him.
As for Beckham. One trick pony. Never rated him. He could cross a ball. That was it. He couldn't tackle, wasn't a great goal scorer, wasn't an organiser. But yet he is loved by all Utd fans (& a lot of England fans). And if you mention "that free kick against Greece" I'm going to invite you to go and watch the game again. ALL Greece's attacks came down their left cos golden balls had gone walkabout and abandoned any notion of playing the position he was supposed to. Ohh and the free kick was his NINTH of the day and he had missed the target with all the others (or they had been straight at the keeper). I had been shouting at the TV to get him subbed he had been that pish. Then he scores the free kick and suddenly is the bestest most amazingest player ever. :roll:
As a Liverpool fan whenever I think of Vidic I just picture Torres ripping him to pieces 3 or 4 times in that 18 month spell. Was Vidic sent off two or three times in those games? He was a superb CB though, I don't deny that and I would certainly agree he has an arguable claim to being one of the top 5 CBs the PL has seen.
A few of the others you name can be debated, Owen was done once his hamstrings went (his first year at Real I think), Andy Cole wasn't in the same class as the rest of those forwards. He scored a lot, but he missed a lot too. More than most other top strikers. Even Robbie Fowler never really lived up to his potential. Young Fowler was such an instinctive clinical finisher but he just never quite became the player he could have been.
Ohh and as for that Leicester team, they wouldn't have won the PL in pretty much every other year, bar the year they won it. In the nicest possible way, their win was a fluke or a massive statistical anomaly.
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I couldn't disagree more. :lol: Apart from Kane and Aquero who are as good as anyone in my opinion the top 20 strikers of the premeirship are all old guard and yes in 10 years time it may change a little. But my point is the top 20 pretty much came from the same era. I can't see a midfielder getting close to Lampard either. Alan Shearer played most of his career at Newcastle as well!
Alan. Shearer. 260.
Wayne Rooney. 208.
Andrew Cole. 187.
Frank Lampard. 177.
Thierry Henry. 175.
Robbie Fowler. 163.
Jermain DefoeAFC Bournemouth. 162.
Sergio Agüero Man City. 152.
The only reason football looks so much better now is because it's in HD.
Cantona and Beckham overated!!!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: It gets better Weasel.
Alan. Shearer. 260.
Wayne Rooney. 208.
Andrew Cole. 187.
Frank Lampard. 177.
Thierry Henry. 175.
Robbie Fowler. 163.
Jermain DefoeAFC Bournemouth. 162.
Sergio Agüero Man City. 152.
The only reason football looks so much better now is because it's in HD.
Cantona and Beckham overated!!!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: It gets better Weasel.
In any sport you can't compare the best players of one decade to another. Pele, George Best, Maradonna, Bobby Charlton, Gary Lineker, none of them would make a championship team now. You need to remember that the game was so different even 20 years ago. The players now are so super-fit in comparison they would run rings around any pre-2000 team. I mean come on players literally used to smoke and drink at half time :lol: Utd were great in their day, just like almost every other team has been at some point in history, it doesn't mean that exact squad would have success now.
theforceuk said:
Well, where is the flaw in my argument? Cantona left and Utd won the treble. Shows you just how unimportant he was.
I'm not saying he wasn't a very good player, I'm just saying he doesn't deserve the pedestal Utd fans out him on.
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weasel said:
Well since you asked I will oblige, if i really have to........
Cantona joined Man Utd in November 1992 for around £1 million, when Utd were struggling, think they were 8th and hadn't won the league in 25 years. Utd went on to win 4 out of the next 5 league titles missing out in 1995 to Blackburn by a point after Cantona was banned for his kick at Crystal Palace and we ended the season empty handed after winning the double the year before. Cantona scored 2 pens in the 1994 final against Chelsea which we won 4 - 0, the clubs first double. When he returned from his ban on the 1 October 1995 against Liverpool he set Nicky Butt up for Utds first and scored a pen to rescue a point in a 2 all draw. That season Utd had been missing him again and by Christmas Man Utd were 10 points behind Newcastle. In January Utd went on a really good run Cantona scoring in 1 - 0 wins over Arsenal, Spurs and Newcastle. He also rescued a point in a 1 all draw at Q.P.R. That's ten points we won with just his goals that I can remember. I always lough when I hear the saying 'you won't win anything with kids', we wouldn't have if it hadn't been for Cantona returning. That season we also won the double with him captain and Cantona scoring the only goal in a 1 - 0 win over Liverpool, Cantona showing the only bit of class in one of the worst finals ever with 4 minutes to go. That day he became the first player from outside the UK or Ireland to captain a winning team in a FA cup final.
Utd won the league the following season with Cantona as captain and at the end of that season announced his retirement from football. Arsenal won the double the next season. Cantona had won 6 league titles out of the previouse 7 he had competed in the other two coming from Leeds in 1992 and Marseille 1991.
The one down side of his time at Utd was their failure in Europe, which Utd were often inpeded by the maximum of 3 oversees players until that rule was thrown out. For me he was the real life Roy of the Rovers back then and Fergies best signing, Ronaldo could have an arguement for that, but I would argue that Ronaldo wouldn't have even moved to Utd if it hadn't been for the success we had through the 90's, which Cantona was without doubt the catalyst of.
Richard_H
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I always rated Denis Irwin as one of the heroes of that team. Did his job, exactly as you wanted him to.
I don't rate Ageuro. Good - yes. But with the hype he brought should be far better.
I don't rate Ageuro. Good - yes. But with the hype he brought should be far better.
But Utd were better after he left! Lol
You didn't quite pick holes in my argument so much as say he was instrumental in helping build Utd, but I still stand by the fact they improved after he left.
As a non Utd fan I can't remember enough about their form, results and signings to verify or dismiss your statements. And I'm far far too lazy to look them all up lol.But did
Utd not spend, what was then, quite a lot of money at the start of Fergy's time? Bruce, Pallister, Keane etc etc?
I do remember the 96 (i think it was 96) cup final against Utd. An utterly dreadful game that Utd deservedly won.
As for Fergy's best signing, schmeichel for me. Bargain bucket price and won Utd far too many points as a resul of his saves.
Ohh and yes, the 3 foreigners rule was daft. Though I think Fergy said himself the one blot on his copy book was Utd didn't do as well in Europe/CL as they probably should have, and they had plenty of years after the rule was ditched. Still, if that's the blot on your copy book, you havent had a bad career.
You didn't quite pick holes in my argument so much as say he was instrumental in helping build Utd, but I still stand by the fact they improved after he left.
As a non Utd fan I can't remember enough about their form, results and signings to verify or dismiss your statements. And I'm far far too lazy to look them all up lol.But did
Utd not spend, what was then, quite a lot of money at the start of Fergy's time? Bruce, Pallister, Keane etc etc?
I do remember the 96 (i think it was 96) cup final against Utd. An utterly dreadful game that Utd deservedly won.
As for Fergy's best signing, schmeichel for me. Bargain bucket price and won Utd far too many points as a resul of his saves.
Ohh and yes, the 3 foreigners rule was daft. Though I think Fergy said himself the one blot on his copy book was Utd didn't do as well in Europe/CL as they probably should have, and they had plenty of years after the rule was ditched. Still, if that's the blot on your copy book, you havent had a bad career.
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And anyway............
This is ridiculous!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-wales-20092473/swansea-city-charges-540-for-mascot-privilege
This is ridiculous!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-wales-20092473/swansea-city-charges-540-for-mascot-privilege
lejackal
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I was really surprised by this as I always, seemingly naively, thought it was free. Everton actually topped this list up until today but I don't know if that was the beeb misreporting or the Toffees doing a U turntheforceuk said:
Premier League mascot prices
West Ham United £700
Leicester City £600
Tottenham Hotspur £405
Wolves £395
Crystal Palace £375
Brighton £350
Burnley £300
Cardiff City £255
Watford £250
Bournemouth £185
Free: Arsenal, Everton, Chelsea, Fulham, Huddersfield, Liverpool, Man City, Man United, Newcastle United and Southampton.
Good on the free teams, it's pretty outrageous to charge for it! Saying that, £500 is pocket change to a PL club so they can't be doing it for the money, maybe they charge simply to keep the waiting list manageable? I can imagine how long the wait must be for a free spot at Utd/Arsenal etc
lejackal said:
Both my kids cost nothing to be Mascots at Spurs. That was c 9 years ago though as a guess. They (as well as running the pay to play scheme above) still have a lucky draw for 2/3 of the mascots each match from the members of Jnr. Spurs. My kids were both obviously signed up the day they were born and after about 8 years of membership they got drawn. They are 3 years apart in age, but were mascots a year apart. I guess like Star Wars collecting, if you want to pay, you can get anything you want, when you want it, if you wait though you might get better value... I wonder if the stats above have any reference to that offer as I'm sure most clubs would still have something of that nature going on.
Still, I guess it cost me c£280 each (roughly) in membership fees over the years, but I do think we had good value for money:
- Free kit (shirt, socks and shorts)
- Free football to get signed by the entire squad (in the tunnel)
- Free pre-game meal (buffet in a kids version of the changing room with all the family (2 adults and one other kid)) - plus loads of games and a kids entertainer... it was essentially a posh kids party and I'm pretty sure they're not cheap.
Sol got to walk out with Luka Modric (premier league game against West Ham) and Mia got Gomes (Europa League game against Olympiakos who actually gave all the kids a bunch of their team pin badges and scarf/flag etc. too)
The only bit I ever felt was a rip off was the photos... really expensive and there is of course a ban on 'long lenses' at all Prem grounds, so 8 year's ago phone or compact zoom tech was pretty crappy and you were basically forced to pay the fee.
Overall, I'd happily pay the price above again for the privilege. c30 games a season... so c 330 mascots a season too. Pretty rarefied air to have breathed. Given all the stuff and the once in a lifetime experience of it, let alone the public liability costs as well as the professional child care they provided at the club in that environment... alone without parents etc. I don't think its poor value at all..
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