Palitoygate possibility.

[Richard_H]

For what it's worth I have seen and held one of the palitoy vcj's and I am convinced that it was the real deal . It had all the characteristics of a genuine mint on card and the seal looked good to me.

And it's stuff like this that wins it for me.

 

[_Lee_]

Just want to clarify guys, its not aimed at the VCJ moreso the idea of AB having access to Palitoy pieces. Secondly, Toni had boatloads of Palitoy BBG,s.

 

[Richard_H]

Yeah. I'm wondering though, if AB was involved would he have sold the cardbacks in the first place?

 

[Mr-shifter]

In response to the original question, I don't think anything else has been run on the Toni scale and I will justify my opinion with what I think is reasonable evidence.

The hand written list ties in very closely with grading reports. That is to say combinations of card backs Toni allegedly had seem to correlate with spikes on grading reports, or higher than normal numbers of mint or near mint cards of those combinations.

Take any other unaffected moc. You will find a few beaters, lots of ok condition ones, a smaller percentage of near mint and a few mint and gem. Toni combinations seem only to exist as near mint and mint, with no shop soiled examples (stickers hanger tab damage etc)

Common thought was Toni had lots of carded figures straight from the factory, hence these quantities of high grades cards. It's now not looking like it.

Just my 2p worth.

 

[itfciain]

I don't think anything that naughty has been said - I'd let it run too Joe

Nothing anywhere near as bad as the legendary ..... "you sir, are a tool."

Never get over that vile statement.

Yep, my good friend Finest Comics

 

[Joe]

I would have only deleted Jason and Lee's back and forth so it didn't detract from Lee's original question, I'm not one to delete things really but people calling each other names isn't a great read!

PS: Slow down on the posting you buggers, I turn my back for a minute and we were on page 2 :lol:

 

[spoons]

Just want to clarify guys, its not aimed at the VCJ moreso the idea of AB having access to Palitoy pieces. Secondly, Toni had boatloads of Palitoy BBG,s.

That might be true Lee, but how many do you see with clear bubbles - never thought BBGs were suspect, just a figure that shops failed to shift back in the day

Saying that I wouldn't be surprised if some more skeletons fall out of the closet

And Joe - let this thread be

 

[jambobbyb]

I do wonder what's going to happen to the remaining stuff Toni was using........

 

[scottie_boy]

Just want to clarify guys, its not aimed at the VCJ moreso the idea of AB having access to Palitoy pieces. Secondly, Toni had boatloads of Palitoy BBG,s.

Am I wrong in the assumption that the reason earlier (logo) versions of Palitoy carded figures were given a clean bill of health was waffle seals? (ie all Toni cards, regardless of ESB/ROTJ/single stem/double stem/tri bubble all involve slick seals, not present on earlier cards?)

 

[jedisearcher]

Ive been thinking for years now that there are some Palitoy logo'd cards which could also have been assembled outside the factory doors, and just wanted to ask if anyone else thinks it could be a possibility. Lets name some names for starters:

Toni E
Richard T
Jason J
Arthur B

Now the first three on that list have very chequered pasts, as we all know-some with recent events. Now 2 of the 3 have at some point owned (or own) Palitoy VCJ,s which were not thought to have existed up to a few years ago. One on the list had a load of Palitoy logo back WBG,s and also had quite a few AT-AT commanders on tge same Palitoy logo cards.

There is little information on Arthur Bailey, but if this guy had the means and contacts at Palitoy, then who knows how long he was getting stuff from them? Could he have got early Palitoy 12 back cards? I seriously think this is within the realms of possibility.

Another thing id like to add is that i dont think Toni was the only one doing the after factory moc,s, something just doesnt sit right and i think others were in on it...

And before anyone starts im not discounting the Palitoy VCJ theory, i was actually overjoyed it became reality-but if AFA graded that one, and also graded fake Tonis what are we to really beleive???

WBG and ATAT Commanders were shelf hangers. No surprise some were left. And if you're going to manufacture MOCS why pick something unsellable.

No reason I can see to suspect they weren't simply factory overstock.

It took TT considerable time to perfect the seals, where's the evidence someone else was doing it years before he was? Plenty of legit stock was around at that time, why produce counterfeits?

And as to Bailey, there's no evidence whatsoever he was involved pre-factory closure or do you have anything solid that he was?

This is all pointless damaging speculation. Come back with facts.

You're opening up a can of worms simply because some dodgy people may or may not have held a VCJ at some point or other?

 

[jedisearcher]

Just want to clarify guys, its not aimed at the VCJ moreso the idea of AB having access to Palitoy pieces. Secondly, Toni had boatloads of Palitoy BBG,s.

Yes that would all hold up in court. It's an open and shut case ...

Doh :twisted:

 

[_Lee_]

How am i opening a can of worms?? Isnt it the same as everyone scrutinizing every single Palitoy Jedi and GM ESB cards etc ? Even pieces not associated with Toni? This in itself has made everyone doubt even legitimate pieces. I put up a German Han Solo the other week on the TT info thread but thats was called into question as Toni didnt use taped weapons, however go to page one of that thread and there is a TT leia with a taped weapon????

Ive been around long enough and had loads of Palitoys go through my hands to put my opinion out there. It is my own opinion and i beleive it wouldnt be impossible for it to have happenend? Im 90% sure it didnt but i have an open mind. What if i had said in 2001 that i though TT,s cards looked suspect?? I would have been shot down in flames because people never thought it possible, and trust me i bought a Fett from him in 2001 and sold it within a few months because something didnt sit right.

At the end of the day its all hearsay and speculation, but im open minded. Does anyone else not find it ironic that both JJ and Torres owned VCJ,s soon after the possibility was discussed. There are still vintage Kenner pieces being found until now, why should Palitiy be any different-both production and pre-production, though the latter is highly unlikely.

 

[_Lee_]

Just want to clarify guys, its not aimed at the VCJ moreso the idea of AB having access to Palitoy pieces. Secondly, Toni had boatloads of Palitoy BBG,s.

Yes that would all hold up in court. It's an open and shut case ...

Doh :twisted:

Ok

 

[Frunkstar]

I do wonder what's going to happen to the remaining stuff Toni was using........

No idea, but it would be really nice to have some case fresh palitoy cardbacks without the TT process, would love a fett one as I suspect a lot of us would, the sad thing with the whole TT thing is that the cards themselves may well now be worth as much as if not more than the re sealed crap.

 

[Stormtrooper37]

I do wonder what's going to happen to the remaining stuff Toni was using........

No idea, but it would be really nice to have some case fresh palitoy cardbacks without the TT process, would love a fett one as I suspect a lot of us would, the sad thing with the whole TT thing is that the cards themselves may well now be worth as much as if not more than the re sealed crap.

They seem to sell for significantly more than most reseal's, it's almost like there is a pecking order. Personally I would rate a Re-seal over anything TT. To me a TT has been 'put together deliberately', not the original bubble to that cardback, at least with a re-seal it's the original bubble that goes with that cardback. I wouldn't touch a TT over a genuine reseal.

MOMC
MOC TT
Re-seal
Opened MOC
Recard

 

[theforceuk]

Interesting thread. :? To be honest I don't won't to no if there is another TT I'll die a lot happier.

 

[Lee Bullock]

With respect Lee - without any tangible evidence or reasonable suspicion of which there is neither it isnt helpful to Palitoy collecting to endlessly speculate in a public forum if logo figures not on Arthur's list are after-factory seals. All it does is court paranoia and unreasonable tarnishing of legitimate pieces. the problem is that Toni had legit pieces along with his own creations - but his after-factory seals had no waffle pattern and to my knowledge early Palitoy MOC were packaged in the orient. Look - anything is possible - half of the provenance certified prototypes COULD be ultimately fake - but its highly unlikely and speculating on something that highly unlikely only creates doubt and lack of confidence in an already damaged vintage market place. Lets not go jumping at shadows...

 

[_Lee_]

With respect Lee - without any tangible evidence or reasonable suspicion of which there is neither it isnt helpful to Palitoy collecting to endlessly speculate in a public forum if logo figures not on Arthur's list are after-factory seals. All it does is court paranoia and unreasonable tarnishing of legitimate pieces. the problem is that Toni had legit pieces along with his own creations - but his after-factory seals had no waffle pattern and to my knowledge early Palitoy MOC were packaged in the orient. Look - anything is possible - half of the provenance certified prototypes COULD be ultimately fake - but its highly unlikely and speculating on something that highly unlikely only creates doubt and lack of confidence in an already damaged vintage market place. Lets not go jumping at shadows...

Very true Lee.

Can i request we lock and delete this please?