Palitoy collecting-what makes a collector?

[edd_jedi]

One thing I've always liked about this hobby is that it's accessible to everybody. I started right at the bottom when I was a teenager and am still only a modest collector by many people's standards, but you can collect anything from £1 beaters up to 10k MOCs. It's simply not true to say anybody is priced out of the market, for the high end stuff sure but that's no different to any other hobby (cars, bikes etc.) There are always bargains to be had, and there were so many of these things made that there will always be a plentiful enough supply to keep loose figures affordable.

Regarding Palitoy specifically I think it just depends on the individuals, I grew up in the UK but have no recollection of the Palitoy logo at all, I was too young to see Palitoy MOCs in shops so my nostalgic attachment is to the later tri logos and even Kenner stuff from my very early collecting days. Also as somebody else mentioned only a fraction of this stuff is actually specific to Palitoy, saying you have no attachment to Kenner is ridiculous, they are Kenner toys on Palitoy packaging!

 

[sith-smith]

Regarding Palitoy specifically I think it just depends on the individuals, I grew up in the UK but have no recollection of the Palitoy logo at all, I was too young to see Palitoy MOCs in shops so my nostalgic attachment is to the later tri logos and even Kenner stuff from my very early collecting days. Also as somebody else mentioned only a fraction of this stuff is actually specific to Palitoy, saying you have no attachment to Kenner is ridiculous, they are Kenner toys on Palitoy packaging!

I'm old enough...just...to remember seeing the Palitoy logo and I still have cardbacks from my childhood with it! Funnily enough most of my childhood cardbacks appear to be Kenner.

Attachments are things we tend to create ourselves. I think when people say they have no attachment to Kenner compared to Palitoy is entirely down to the logo, rather than the toy. (exceptions maybe the Palitoy versions of some vehicles/playsets) It was an attachment created through childhood, though I wonder how much of it was created during childhood or in adulthood looking back?

I remember the Palitoy logo and the Kenner, but as the son of a father who worked in the toy industry (He worked for Matchbox/Lesney's...as did my Mum and older brother for a while!) I was made aware of different toy companies. In fact, I wasn't allowed to buy Airfix models...only matchbox. However I was definitely not attached to the Palitoy logo. That has come purely from adult induced nostalgia.

 

[edd_jedi]

Yes I agree Gary, the hype and prestige has more to do with it for most people in my opinion. Good story about your parents, I was in a similar boat myself, my grandad worked for Hornby so I had endless supplies of Scalextrix, Hornby trains, and some more obscure stuff they produced.

 

[sith-smith]

I had some of this stuff as a kid. In fact I think it was the last Christmas before Star War toys hit the shop that I remember getting some of these figures/vehicles!

 

[SublevelStudios]

I'm certainly not a newbie to the hobby, having been around collecting when it was possibly the uncoolest thing a teenager could have done in the late 80's early 90's. But I am new to re-collecting vintage, having spent the past 2 and a half years putting together my collection, and mostly Palitoy or UK only stuff like Helix and Topps.

I don't collect MOCS's, I realised very early on that was not going to be financially possible and instead concentrated on loose figures and boxed vehicles and playsets.

Sure, I've paid top whack for some items and got absolute steals on others, it all balances out. So yes, you could argue that somebody like me is pushing the price of certain items up, but if there is no new blood in hobbies, it ultimately dies. There has to be a succession of people leaving and joining the hobby to make it interesting.

I'm more passionate about collecting now than I've ever been, I've bought and sold and traded and loved almost every second of it.

As someone who's really into Palitoy stuff I've seen radical price hikes on some stuff, mainly MOC's but also the playests and ephemera, and I honeslty don't think there will be a drop in prices, a slow down for sure and possibly a plateau but I can't see there being a crash in this market anytime soon. Not now Disney is in the driving seat pushing the franchise to new heights (and possible lows).

A lot of this has come about because of Craig's £18k Fett, the publicity that generated was unreal, nationwide/global coverage, even my dad knew about it and he hates Star Wars! :lol: Suddenly we've got all manner of crap appearing on ebay with Palitoy in the heading and it's not even related!

Would we be having the Rep auction at Vectis without that sale?

 

[SublevelStudios]

I had some of this stuff as a kid. In fact I think it was the last Christmas before Star War toys hit the shop that I remember getting some of these figures/vehicles!

Loved those! They were similar to Action Jacks

 

[jedisearcher]

saying you have no attachment to Kenner is ridiculous, they are Kenner toys on Palitoy packaging!

Only from a certain point of view. My childhood toys all came from 12 back Palitoy cards and by the time ESB hit the screens I'd moved into vinyl and TDK tapes. The toys may be Kenner by design, but for me they'll always be Palitoy and that's where the nostalgia comes from (however irrational that may seem to those who never saw a Palitoy logo in the shops).

A lot of this has come about because of Craig's £18k Fett, the publicity that generated was unreal, nationwide/global coverage, even my dad knew about it and he hates Star Wars! :lol: Suddenly we've got all manner of crap appearing on ebay with Palitoy in the heading and it's not even related!

Would we be having the Rep auction at Vectis without that sale?

100% agree. Unfortunately like you say, it's also given some people unrealistic expectations about what their stuff might be worth.

 

[jedisearcher]

I'm not convinced that those who buy at these high prices are necessarily buying because they see a value in the item because of nostalgia. Instead I think their thoughts often don't go much beyond money/rarity/prestige. I could be wrong.

Aren't the true high prices really going because they're "mint" condition, rather than money/rarity/prestige? The millionsoftoys Chewbacca is both rare and has some prestige but it's not going to go for ridiculous money (probably!! :lol: ), purely due to condition. People only ever remember the high prices, less so the bargains. I can't think of any aspect of collecting where condition doesn't influence price so good stuff gets good prices.

But yes, value is also important. If you knew prices were going to drop 50% tomorrow you wouldn't pay today's price. But then, I've yet to see anyone give a good reason why they would drop in anything other than the short term (hype bubble).

 

[Fishtalk]

So, is it possible for Mr. Average (mortgage, two kids, limited disposable income) to put a Palitoy 12 back set together today? Difficult when even the traditional 'entry level' 12 backs (Threepio and Sandpeople) now routinely sell for £500-1000, instead of the £150-300 they were until recently.

I'd love to put a set of Palitoy 20 backs together, but fear I've missed the boat, at least financially. This summer there will hopefully be a shitload of early Palitoys around, logic says prices have to take a dive, at least temporally.

The next few months are going to be the best chance to put together or complete a Palitoy run. Once the New movie opens, I fear we will be looking back and remembering the golden days when a Palitoy 12 back Jawa 'only' cost £1400, not to mention Luke, Chewie, e.t.c.

 

[edd_jedi]

So, is it possible for Mr. Average (mortgage, two kids, limited disposable income) to put a Palitoy 12 back set together today? Difficult when even the traditional 'entry level' 12 backs (Threepio and Sandpeople) now routinely sell for £500-1000, instead of the £150-300 they were until recently.

Like everything in life it's down to choices. How much does the average 'bloke' spend on booze, Sky Sports and fags per year? Probably enough to buy several Palitoy MOCs!

 

[Bonsai_Tree_Ent]

I have an extra fondness for Palitoy as I grew up in the UK but I consider myself a 'vintage Star Wars collector' not a Palitoy collector (as others have mentioned Palitoy did a whole range of other toys besides SW).

The attraction of SW is that it was a global phenomenon and there are a great many cool items from around the world, some of which never came with the Palitoy logo; such as the Sonic Landspeeder, the Sandcrawler, the Dewback, the vinyl cape Jawa... ( whoops)

 

[Lee Gregory]

When you look at MOC, especially logo'd cards, yes it has become a rich man's game in my opinion.

I can't really remember the difference in cards when I was younger, but for me the Palitoy logo is just far better lookethan Kenner.

Can't remember when I bought my 1st logo'd card, probably around 2006/7, a 45a Chewbacca for just over £300 if I remember correctly. As I've said in the past, it is basic economics, supply and demand, which has made prices on certain cards go crazy.

I agree with Gary, money will only get you so far. When a certain individual got involved a few years back in Palitoy and I was selling a few bits, I decided to sell to members on here rather than someone I didn't particularly see eye to eye with.

The conundrum for me is always, collector or investor. I've had some really nice pieces I've sold on over the years,but I've had too much £ tied up in plastic and cardboard. I would still love to add a few more cards to my collect collection, but can't really afford to these days.

Still, the fun has always been in the hunt and you never know what may turn up.

 

[edd_jedi]

I don't really see it as a rich man's game - I've probably spent tens of thousands on SW stuff over the last 20 years, but it's usually fairly easy to get your money back unless you're one of these idiots on Facebook paying 10 grand for graded 12 backs (and I have no sympathy for them.)

A rich man's game IMO is something like having a speed boat, where every 10 minutes you burn £100 of fuel in to thin air!

 

[Lee Gregory]

Depends how you define rich I guess......

 

[SublevelStudios]

Like everything in life it's down to choices. How much does the average 'bloke' spend on booze, Sky Sports and fags per year? Probably enough to buy several Palitoy MOCs!

This is true, and the great thing about collecting is, and provided you've done some homework and not overpaid, you can always get your money back and in most instances make a profit. You can't do that with a Season ticket once you've got your enjoyment out of it.

 

[mr_palitoy]

I should chime in with my 10p's worth.

I got the first 12 palitoy MOC (along with 2 A/B doubles) and the second 8 20 back cards back in 2006/2007.
The max I paid was about £500 a card for the rarer ones, so all in I got the first 12 for about £4k. And the
20 backs cost me about £3k. At the time I was much better paid than I am now, and even then, I considered
£500 to be a ridiculous amount to be paying for a MOC. The 30a's were next in line, and several of these were
£1K plus cards. So for me, I was already priced out of the Palitoy MOC game, and was already a long way behind
Gary and would have been competing for the same pieces with him. So I looked for my own niche that hadn't been
done which was a full run of Palitoy cardbacks on every minor card variation, as opposed to Gary on major variations
for the MOCs.

The price of those MOCs have gone up tenfold in some cases. As a new collector now, I'd be priced out of collecting
Palitoy MOCs, even the price of set of 12 Palitoy cardbacks is over a grand these days.

There are many more former MOC collectors turning to cardbacks and reseals these days for Palitoy. I did a deal just
the other week with a collector who is building a full Palitoy cardback run like I have done.

If it's the logo you crave for, don't forget all the boxed playsets and vehicles, a lot of them are still quite affordable!

cheers Jason

 

[jedisearcher]

I should chime in with my 10p's worth.

I got the first 12 palitoy MOC (along with 2 A/B doubles) and the second 8 20 back cards back in 2006/2007.
The max I paid was about £500 a card for the rarer ones, so all in I got the first 12 for about £4k. And the
20 backs cost me about £3k. At the time I was much better paid than I am now, and even then, I considered
£500 to be a ridiculous amount to be paying for a MOC. The 30a's were next in line, and several of these were
£1K plus cards. So for me, I was already priced out of the Palitoy MOC game, and was already a long way behind
Gary and would have been competing for the same pieces with him. So I looked for my own niche that hadn't been
done which was a full run of Palitoy cardbacks on every minor card variation, as opposed to Gary on major variations
for the MOCs.

The price of those MOCs have gone up tenfold in some cases. As a new collector now, I'd be priced out of collecting
Palitoy MOCs, even the price of set of 12 Palitoy cardbacks is over a grand these days.

There are many more former MOC collectors turning to cardbacks and reseals these days for Palitoy. I did a deal just
the other week with a collector who is building a full Palitoy cardback run like I have done.

If it's the logo you crave for, don't forget all the boxed playsets and vehicles, a lot of them are still quite affordable!

cheers Jason

Those prices (£7k total) are a good baseline for the question Gary asked earlier about what the first 12/20 would cost now. Based on information I've picked up from various places (excluding Vectis where I can as those prices are totally over-hyped), I reckon ungraded c8+ for the first 12 would cost you around £16k and the second 8 would take you to around £8k. I'm talking very nice c8's here, so better than almost every Palitoy 12/20 on ebay at the moment (millionsoftoys Han 12 back would be an equivalent).

Before people jump all over what I've said, I'm 100% behind what Edd and Fishtalk have said here. These are prices that you could aim for without blundering into the first auction you see and getting everything in 2 weeks. You'd have to work at it, you'd have to be patient and persistent and probably a bit lucky. It would take months, probably longer.

So that's something like a 4x increase in prices in close to 10 years.

Assuming the £1k+ prices that Jason are talking about are the rarer 30a's, then the 4x logic probably applies to current 30a prices as well, although maybe those haven't risen quite so fast. Vectis prices for the rarer ones have been around £2.5 - £3k so take off a bit for the overhype and it's probably not 4x. A reason for this could be that some collectors call it a day after the first 20 so the same level of demand isn't there.

Rich mans game? You decide

 

[sith-smith]

To chuck some more numbers in there...

I paid 9k for my set of 20. All around C9 unpunched. That was in 2002. So £450 per figure on average.

At the time it was a lot of money, but was probably less than what finding them separately was going to cost me.

And of course finding them was far more of an issue back then than now!

 

[_Lee_]

I have found with Palitoy MOCs over the last 20 years have...........



OMG! Vanity Fair have new Force Awakens pictures! ! !



Laterz.

Haha! you ponce Grant

 

[_Lee_]

Interesting replies guys.

I remember selling to Gary online in 2002 and we got chatting about Palitoys then. Even in that day his set was one of the best going. There were many Palitoy guys around on RS then - Gary, Ardy,Max F,Andy Clarke,Andy Preston,Bernie Holmes, Paul Bullock ,Lee Bullock,myself and many more and there were some great times and bargains to be had. Andy Clarke always unearthed the most outstanding collections id ever seen ,and even then people thought a grand was high! compared to now, its peanuts.

I remember Kevin Crawford came to buy 2 Palitoys from me, and brought a 12 back Luke to show me-wow! That thing was gem mint and this was pre AFA so could be handled-sweet piece. I had a 12

I am priced out of high end Palitoy now, but i also dont like to let it be known what i do have. Call me paranoid, but nothing surprises me nowadays and in this day and age its becoming harder to show and tell

With regards to the Palitoy logo, i always got SW and my older brother always got action man, so i hold it close to my heart. The logo is the best of all vintage lines IMO, but maybe im biast

At the end of the day, i hope these figures we own do outlive us, but will they? It won't bother any of us but hey ho