Moon landing madness

[Grant]

The idea that any of us on here can "prove" that the original moon landing happened or did not happen is pure conjecture. So whilst I appreciate people feel that that they can strongly argue strongly either way it means nothing as none of it is verifiable by themselves because none of us have the means to test it ourselves. Some people may feel comfortable taking refuge in certain scientific viewpoints thrown out there by programs like mythbusters and alike but ultimately you are still putting your " faith" in the claim because you cannot test the theory yourself.

I would say that we would be foolish to think that our government wield real power in this world. Just look at how they deal with bankers and big business when they break the law. How many people went to prison after the international interest rates were found to be fixed? They were quicker to punish themselves after the mp expenses scandal than they are to take on the banks. Look at how soft we are with these big business, taxing 10% of the profits that they move offshore. It's scandalous in my opinion. I have real issues with representatives form major businesses meet with government officials and hold secret meetings where no minutes are published. This is not democracy in my opinion.

Great post Chris. Wish there was a like button.

Edit and yes button moon was ****. I wonder If the Clangers were real too lol. :wink:

 

[JuniorChubb]

The idea that any of us on here can "prove" that the original moon landing happened or did not happen is pure conjecture. So whilst I appreciate people feel that that they can strongly argue strongly either way it means nothing as none of it is verifiable by themselves because none of us have the means to test it ourselves. Some people may feel comfortable taking refuge in certain scientific viewpoints thrown out there by programs like mythbusters and alike but ultimately you are still putting your " faith" in the claim because you cannot test the theory yourself.

Indeed Chris, I cannot prove we did go to the Moon unless I take you there myself but the onus is on Craig to prove we did not go there as he threw the question out there, he has the burden of proof as he started the thread and made the claims.

I am confident that anything he throws out as proof can be shown to be inaccurate, once those inaccuracies have gone what is left?

Mythbusters has been mentioned a few times in this thread, believe me they are not who I would rely on to counter any moon hoax claims.

I would say that we would be foolish to think that our government wield real power in this world. Just look at how they deal with bankers and big business when they break the law. How many people went to prison after the international interest rates were found to be fixed? They were quicker to punish themselves after the mp expenses scandal than they are to take on the banks. Look at how soft we are with these big business, taxing 10% of the profits that they move offshore. It's scandalous in my opinion. I have real issues with representatives form major businesses meet with government officials and hold secret meetings where no minutes are published. This is not democracy in my opinion.

I am pleased to agree with you on this Chris

I am not a believer in the illuminati, The Majestic 12, the Ashkenazi Jew bloodline theories, the New world Order conspiracies, the Rothschild Dynasty's Power, the Zionists, Shape Shifting Lizards or any of that but I firmly believe the Banks have far to much power and the ability to manipulate Governments and 'World events' with more easily than people are willing to admit. I specifically chose 'manipulate' rather than fully control as IMO that is were we are ATM.

Even if people do not agree with the power that certain banks hold on a worldwide scale the examples you give are blatant and horrendous, white collar crime on a national scale continually goes unpunished thanks to the 'old boys club' mentality, whether its pulling favours from the masons etc or just plain old bribery and financial clout its disgraceful and possibly beyond repair.

Not really related to the Moon landings though IMO :wink:

 

[Jediknight3263827]

:lol: quality, though button moon has to the worst of the worst when it came to kids programs, it was dire.

hahaha i used to love following mr spoon to the moon

In my youth, I saw a film called "They Live" by Jon Carpenter

that takes me back great film haha just put the glasses on :lol:

 

[JuniorChubb]

Yeah, I edited my post - because people seemed to be getting their serious faces on! I'm still up for saving the subject for the pub.

I wonder though if age has anything to do with this discussion. I'm not claiming to be older and wiser – just older! My parent's generation will not question Apollo because they saw it live on television. People in their twenties and younger have grown up with vastly more information at their fingertips than my generation did. Much younger generations will not question Apollo either because their formative years are bombarded with the official history of space travel.

The late-thirties and forties generation I belong to only learned the odd fact or two about the space race while growing up. It was not covered at all on television and there was no internet to browse, so my generation can perhaps look at the Moon landings with different eyes. As someone else said, it's those nagging doubts.

As for television promoting conspiracy theories, I don't know. I think we can all tell the difference between "trash TV" and the main channels. The big four seem to support the orthodox scientific view.

The serious faces come thick and fast once conspiracies are on the menu as there is no sitting on the fence.

I think one of your key points is mentioning the internet. it is a curse and a blessing at the same time...

Look at the wealth of information it has provided for us collectors, you can come into the world of vintage collecting fresh and pick up years of research and information in months thanks to what is available on the web.

Then there is the flip side to this, the crap. The web is a dark and evil place full of lies and misinformation. Because this misinformation is written rather than spoken people are more trusting of it and it spreads like wildfire.The latest trend in the 'mistrust of orthodox science' for example, where the hell did this come from? The same science that has increased life expectancy, removed many diseases from western society, sent man to the moon (sorry :wink: ), given the world light when its dark, heat when its cold and increased harvest yields and funnily enough also given us computers and the internet to discuss that very topic with.

I understand fears from companies like Monsanto and 'Big Pharm' conspiracies, but these should not lead to a fear of science but a fear of greed and business as that is the real fuel behind these companies.

If I posted about the 'Flat Earth Society' (http://theflatearthsociety.org/) who funnily enough are still going strong these days I would be laughed of the forum, I do not see how what is being discussed in this thread is any less ridiculous.

 

[JuniorChubb]

The scepticism about the US or indeed any other government or world power is well founded. Scepticism about the moon landing is not.

˄˄ JC likes this :wink: ˄˄

 

[PGowdy]

Mythbusters has been mentioned a few times in this thread, believe me they are not who I would rely on to counter any moon hoax claims.

And yet they did it with ease. :lol: Which was my entire point.

 

[JuniorChubb]

Mythbusters has been mentioned a few times in this thread, believe me they are not who I would rely on to counter any moon hoax claims.

And yet they did it with ease. :lol: Which was my entire point.

It was an entertaining episode, the best way to counter people who believe the 'moon hoax promotion' on the Discovery Channel is to give them some 'moon hoax debunking' on the Discovery Channel. :lol:

They just need to do the same with the Ancient Aliens series :wink:

 

[weasel]

The thing with the moon landing that always make me wonder, is that we went there in the 60's, human nature is greed, why have they not been back since & started raping the moon for mineral deposits

Easy enough to explain. It costs tens of billions to send a rocket to the moon and they don't know for sure what is up there. So they COULD spend (lets say) £20 billion going to the moon on the off chance there are lots of rare minerals. OR they could look on earth where they have lots more scientific, geological and seismic information and can make semi educated guesses as to where there may/should be stuff they need/can make money from digging up. I dare say if the astronauts had found tonnes and tonnes of diamonds (or any rare/valuable mineral) just lying about, the Yanks would have been back up inside a year and would have mined the moon to destruction by now. But it's a bloody expensive trip to make on the off chance there is stuff up there.
Also, getting core samples or digging down deeply is kinda hard work here on earth. You seen the size of the machines they use? If it costs tens of billions to get a few blokes and a small pod onto the moon how much is it gonna cost to get all that up there? Plus you need to cap an oil well when you test drill and hit oil. Try doing that in limited gravity with feck all expertise and only three blokes. You'd watch all your oil drift off into space. Not I think there would be oil on the moon as it's some what lacking in plant life, but you take my point.

ATM, it's totally uneconomic to go up there and look about, especially when there are still so many places here on earth that churn out various minerals we need for a lot less.

Ohh and you may have noticed there is a thing called a financial crisis ATM, ie, NO ONE has any money! So no company or NASA can afford to spunk that much on a wing and a prayer.

I can't prove that the world is round (spherical) either

Actually, you can.

Quite easily.

On a clear night go outside and look at the moon, assuming it's not a full moon, there will be a shadow on it. Cast by the earth. The earth being between the moon and the sun at the time (ie the basic conditions you need for a shadow). "Moonlight" is the suns rays bouncing off the Moon, unless there's some daft conspiracy theory there that I haven't heard of!?

The fact that the shadow on the moon is round, and not square, rectangular etc means, the earth must be round.

Simple!

 

[PGowdy]

[

I can't prove that the world is round (spherical) either

Actually, you can.

Quite easily.

On a clear night go outside and look at the moon, assuming it's not a full moon, there will be a shadow on it. Cast by the earth. The earth being between the moon and the sun at the time (ie the basic conditions you need for a shadow). "Moonlight" is the suns rays bouncing off the Moon, unless there's some daft conspiracy theory there that I haven't heard of!?

The fact that the shadow on the moon is round, and not square, rectangular etc means, the earth must be round.

Simple!

Wouldn't a flat circular earth cast the same shadow? Or indeed a cone shaped earth with a circular bottom?

 

[weasel]

A flat earth would yeah, but it's fairly easy to prove the Earth isn't a flat disc, given people have sailed round it for centuries and ehh not fallen off, or come to somewhere where the ocean bends off at 90 degrees.

Ditto for cone shaped earth, albeit you need to change the angle of the oceans bend.

Mind you given that there are people alive who believe the earth is 6,000 years old cos apparently that's the time scale from the book of Genesis to now, it appears that logic and basic common sense, just don't apply to a disturbing number of people.

 

[PGowdy]

A flat earth would yeah, but it's fairly easy to prove the Earth isn't a flat disc, given people have sailed round it for centuries and ehh not fallen off, or come to somewhere where the ocean bends off at 90 degrees.

Ditto for cone shaped earth, albeit you need to change the angle of the oceans bend.

Mind you given that there are people alive who believe the earth is 6,000 years old cos apparently that's the time scale from the book of Genesis to now, it appears that logic and basic common sense, just don't apply to a disturbing number of people.

Well, exactly.
So we're going with cone shaped? :lol:

 

[weasel]

As a matter of interest, have we got any creationists on the boards?

Go on, admit it, I'll only laugh at you a little!

 

[PGowdy]

As a matter of interest, have we got any creationists on the boards?

Go on, admit it, I'll only laugh at you a little!

:lol: What are you doing??!

 

[theforceuk]

To say we haven't moved on from the moon landings isn't exactly right seen as we have a permanent presence in space where humans spend 6 months at a time flying around in low Earth orbit. :roll:

 

[Fishtalk]

I used to believe that the Apollo moon missions were faked, they had the means and more importantly the incentive to do so. But a conspiracy like that would require dozens of conspirators, probably more, who have all remained silent for 45 years. Possible? I don't think so. It was incredibly expensive and risky, and could not be done today with current technology so say NASA, but yes, I believe Humans walked on the Moon.

Will we ever go back? Not in my lifetime. Too expensive and too many problems here on Earth.

 

[JuniorChubb]

As a matter of interest, have we got any creationists on the boards?

Go on, admit it, I'll only laugh at you a little!

Don't poke the fire Weasel :wink:

Creationism is a belief instilled in many from birth and entwined with religious beliefs, although 'laughable' to those who follow a less 'faith' based thinking it is unfair to mock it.

See what I mean about these threads? Here I am getting overly serious and lecturing a mod (sorry Weas' :wink: ). There is definitely something in the water at the moment, all sorts of strange threads and post popping up all over the place. :?

 

[Michael Sith]

All part of life's rich tapestry, different opinions, different views and a different spin on things is a healthy thing, the trouble starts when individuals, groups and bodies try to force opinion on others.

Everyone has the right to an opinion but does not have the right to impose it on others.

 

[theforceuk]

:roll: here we go its like Christmas day has come early. :roll:

 

[weasel]

Creationism is a belief instilled in many from birth and entwined with religious beliefs, although 'laughable' to those who follow a less 'faith' based thinking it is unfair to mock it.

I assume "less faith based thinking" is a euphemism for "people who have a double digit IQ"? Lol :lol:

 

[JuniorChubb]

Creationism is a belief instilled in many from birth and entwined with religious beliefs, although 'laughable' to those who follow a less 'faith' based thinking it is unfair to mock it.

I assume "less faith based thinking" is a euphemism for "people who have a double digit IQ"? Lol :lol:

:wink: