Lost item advice please

[lejackal]

After a bit of advice from anyone that has been told an item they sent has been lost in the post.
I sent it signed for, to the address provided by the buyer and it was signed for a week ago but by a person with a different surname.
The buyer claims he has not received it and doesn't know anyone with the surname on the proof of delivery.
My question is what is expected of me as a seller? What would you do? Offer a refund and try to claim? Knock back the buyer and stand by the proof of delivery?
Any advice would be great.
Thanks
Carl

 

[yoda]

That's a pain alright at least you might have an argument that the package was given without the proper signature for that address.

 

[Joe]

If it's been signed for and not by the person you sent it to then there are only two possible reasons, either one of his neighbours is telling porkies and has stolen it after accepting the delivery or the postman delivered it to the wrong house.

IMO Neither are down to you as the sender, if you sent it signed for and to the correct address (should have the postcode at least on your post office receipt?) you are in the clear here.

If it was me I would chase it up with RM to see if they can work out what happened and where it was delivered, might get your buyer to check with his postman next time he sees them too - can't hurt.

 

[itfciain]

Very tough one - and all through not fault of your own

I actually had a couple of similar cases - one where the buyer asked me to ship to his works address but I sent to his home address by accident (had that address on file) - it was recorded as signed for but buyer had not knowledge of it arriving - as I have sent to that address then I agreed to replace - even though I did feel a bit hard done by - luckily the package eventually showed up

Second was very recently were buyer forgot to tell me he had changed address - his package was signed for and luckily he knew the name of the new owner and collected the package

In this instance I would say it should be a joint effort to chase up the Royal Mail - the buyer needs to speak to his local postman and possibly even the local sorting office to check it hasn't been dropped somewhere by mistake.

If this was a paypal goods payment then they should find in your favour - they did with an eBay claim that was raised against me last year - in fact both eBay and PayPal found in my favour as the guy opened two cases against me claiming that the package hadn't arrived even though it was showing as delivered

 

[maxf]

I had the same thing with something I sold Laurence on the forum. Someone called 'Duncan' signed for the package and Laurence, or his neighbours, don't know a Duncan. It turned out, from memory, that the temporary postman was called, you guessed it - Duncan.

However, the package never materialised - I raised a complaint with RM and threatened them with the police - Laurence did a lot of digging too. They didnt care. I refunded Laurence and forgot all about it. I couldnt bear to lose more hours of my life to the claim process for the £35 or whatever I'd get back.

To be honest, if it wasn't through the forum and to a name I knew, I'd have been more reluctant to give the refund. Not 100% sure what Id have done.

 

[lejackal]

Thanks guys

I had the same thing with something I sold Laurence on the forum. Someone called 'Duncan' signed for the package and Laurence, or his neighbours, don't know a Duncan. It turned out, from memory, that the temporary postman was called, you guessed it - Duncan.

However, the package never materialised - I raised a complaint with RM and threatened them with the police - Laurence did a lot of digging too. They didnt care. I refunded Laurence and forgot all about it. I couldnt bear to lose more hours of my life to the claim process for the £35 or whatever I'd get back.

To be honest, if it wasn't through the forum and to a name I knew, I'd have been more reluctant to give the refund. Not 100% sure what Id have done.

This sounds like I might end up buggered then, albeit for a small amount - I assume their Ts&Cs are arse covery to the extreme and state that whatever name and address is on the package they can delivery it anywhere as long as someone signs for it :roll:

 

[SOJ]

I had a similar issue with a eBay sale a couple of years back.

I pushed back to the buyer and said the item had been posted to the address they had supplied.

They opened a case with eBay and as I was able to supply the tracking number showing it was delivered to their they actually found in my favour. It might of helped that the person signed for it had the same surname as the buyer.

 

[SOJ]

Very tough one - and all through not fault of your own

I actually had a couple of similar cases - one where the buyer asked me to ship to his works address but I sent to his home address by accident (had that address on file) - it was recorded as signed for but buyer had not knowledge of it arriving - as I have sent to that address then I agreed to replace - even though I did feel a bit hard done by - luckily the package eventually showed up

Second was very recently were buyer forgot to tell me he had changed address - his package was signed for and luckily he knew the name of the new owner and collected the package

In this instance I would say it should be a joint effort to chase up the Royal Mail - the buyer needs to speak to his local postman and possibly even the local sorting office to check it hasn't been dropped somewhere by mistake.

If this was a paypal goods payment then they should find in your favour - they did with an eBay claim that was raised against me last year - in fact both eBay and PayPal found in my favour as the guy opened two cases against me claiming that the package hadn't arrived even though it was showing as delivered

For the recorded I was the second one. Yes I am a dickhead.

 

[edd_jedi]

Submit a Royal Mail claim and ask the buyer to wait for a resolution as it's clearly not your fault

 

[plantainman]

Submit a Royal Mail claim and ask the buyer to wait for a resolution as it's clearly not your fault

This.

Keep the buyer informed throughout the process which is all you can really do to help.

Let us know the resolution so we can all learn from this too.

best of luck

 

[Lom]

Carl, surely you can't be held responsible for this; simply put you sent an item to an address supplied by the purchaser and it has been signed for as received at that address... Either the carrier delivered it to the wrong address or someone at the purchasers address has lost it / or is pulling a fast one. Either way, not your fault mate.

 

[lejackal]

Cheers guys, I've been onto RM this morning and they have launched an investigation, also have provided seller a picture of the tracking receipt with his address on as well as screenshots from the live chat with RM so hopefully can get it sorted. He paid F&F and has not asked for a refund to be fair to him, it's just not something that has happened to me before from a non Ebay sale

 

[weasel]

If it's been signed for and not by the person you sent it to then there are only two possible reasons, either one of his neighbours is telling porkies and has stolen it after accepting the delivery or the postman delivered it to the wrong house.

OR................He's signed for it using a false name and is trying to get the item and his money.
Cynical, me!? Never!

 

[indianawars]

I'm sorry to read about this one Carl, I really am.
I know how deflating you can feel when something like this happens.
Unfortunately, when it comes down to things like this, then the buyer pretty much have you over a barrel.

Might be worth double checking the PayPal email address name against the postal address name.

I had a scammer who tired to use a different name.
When I had an item not received case opened with the reason being that it wasn't their surname on the proof of delivery. I double checked the name of the person who paid for it with their PayPal account... and bingo! It was the same name as the person who paid for it, but different name on the eBay postal address. They quickly closed the case when I pointed that out to them.

 

[Ross_Barr]

Carl, this is a tough one for sure and one that continually pops up in the hobby. Of course it's not your fault, but it's also not the fault of your buyer. It's the fault of the RM, but the question is who between you and your buyer should bear the risk that the RM doesn't do anything about it, which is likely. It tends to be a question of ethics, law, and frankly the community spirit.

The law - In the US (I know that doesn't apply to you folks, but it's what I know and it helps frame the issue even if it doesn't govern you), the question is whether a contract for sale is a "shipment contract" (i.e., FOB seller's delivery point) or a "destination contract" (i.e., FOB buyer's delivery point). Under the former, risk of loss passes from seller to buyer once the seller gets the item to the carrier. Under the latter, the risk of loss stays with the seller until the item is actually delivered at the buyer's door. Whether a contract of sale among the parties is a shipment or destination contract depends on intent. of course, where a buyer gives you his address, there is a strong presumption of a destination contract, in which case risk of loss stays with the seller until it is delivered at the buyer's door.

Ethics - this situation stinks. It stinks for both seller and buyer. No one is at fault. But looking at who is bearing what risk, the seller is often the one choosing how an item is packed and which carrier gets to deliver it. Given that the buyer has little control, except by paying and providing an address, ethics seem to lean on the side of the buyer as not having to bear the risk of loss or pursue the claim against the RM. The law follows that for the most part.

Community - We have a small, tight knit community, and people talk. If a seller in this situation was to claim no responsibility and tell the buyer he is on his own, that will likely follow the seller. It's just not the way to act in this community. At the same time, the buyer needs to recognize in this situation that the seller didn't do anything wrong. With the need to be good to each other in the community and caring about our reputations in mind, and thinking about what the law and ethics provide, reaching some compromise should be the goal. Maybe buyer and seller each split the cost of the item and go their separate ways. Or 60/40 or 70/30. Or whatever.

Good luck!

 

[Richard_H]

I had a situation through ebay where the item was delivered 80 miles way. It was sent recorded and I still lost. It took quite a long time to resolve it in my favour. The buyer was a total bellend and I had no sympathy for him.

 

[Cazza]

I've had a couple like this recently, where it's been signed for and no one knows who by. Turned out that they ended up at the local post office and been signed for by a member of staff. Worth checking out...

 

[Pomse2001]

Offer a refund and try to claim

Lain mailed me a packet some months ago and I had the same problem. I had not signed for it and the signature was a southern european maybe
african name that I had never heard before. 3 months later the lost packet came with the mail man, I could see it had been open and sealed again, but everything was perfect and nothing was missing

 

[plantainman]

Offer a refund and try to claim

Lain mailed me a packet some months ago and I had the same problem. I had not signed for it and the signature was a southern european maybe
african name that I had never heard before. 3 months later the lost packet came with the mail man, I could see it had been open and sealed again, but everything was perfect and nothing was missing

Basic training 101.
"For a lost parcel that has tracking, sign as Mohammed and hope both parties forget to file a claim"

:?

 

[Pomse2001]

I can also say it did also happen at work today for me. I got 55 packets on a pallet from the mail man today. 10 of the packets to my big surprise
was for a radio store in the same town. 10 packets with blu-ray recorders for the tv, stereo and other radio items :shock: :shock: :shock:
I first had time to look at the pallet a few min. before I should go home so tomorrow I have to call the mail office to tell them they have delivered 10 packets to me that is not for me :lol:

Some at work, thought it was maybe our christmas gifts from the company :lol: