Are ebay & Paypal scamming us on their conversion rates?

[PGowdy]

Has anyonne evr noticed that when you pay for something on ebay or send money via paypal the conversion rate always seems a little higher then it should be?
So where do they get their rate from? Are they doing this on purpose/illegally? Is there anything that can be about it?
It's only by a few % and that probably why they get away with it. A few pence here and there. Who notices. Plus, if you do notice isn't it a little difficult to prove when currency rates and differences are constantly fluctuating.

I send fairly medium-large amounts of money to US seller via paypal and have been noticing it more given that when you send someone $300-$500-$1000 etc, that 1 or 2 percent extra really starts to show. And 1 or 2 % on every transatlantic transaction will earn ebay and paypal millions, possibly 10s of millions over the course of a year.

What are people's thoughts on this? Am i wrong? Is there a charge added on for converting money that is stated in the small print somewhere? If indeed they are "skimming" can anything be done? Why hasn't something been done already?

So just to give a visual and actual example of what i'm talking about, here's a screen **** of a transfer i made this evening to someone in the states.

And here are several examples of what the exchnage rate should have been.

As you can see, in EVERY example there is roughly a £4 discrepancy compared with the paypal rate. And i didn't pick and chose these examples to suit my argument. EVERY example i could find was basically the same. And i've done this several times this month and it's always a similar margin of difference from what paypal says the rate is and what it ACTUALLY is.
So why are they charging more than what the rate actually is? How are they getting away with it?

 

[theslider]

Of course! They're ****ing theiving bastards! Nothing illegal about it though unfortunately.

 

[PGowdy]

Of course! They're ****ing theiving bastards! Nothing illegal about it though unfortunately.

What makes you say that? Seems very much illegal to me.

 

[Caswellbot]

Their conversion rates have always sucked. Money grabbing bastards!

 

[itfciain]

I've always noticed that as well Pete - I have also paid for items from the US using Ebay in $'s and the conversion rate that they show the item on Ebay at is not always the same as the total money they take - we are not talking much but I am sure that they are making something - I bet it is in the T&Cs somewhere

 

[Frunkstar]

Not sure if its in the T's & C's somewhere but like Iain suggested, I bet it is, though how they can do it legally is another matter, they get there bit from the "I will pay the fee" bit anyway, but I have noticed EVERY time I send payments abroad that I usually end up paying a MUCH greater amount in the conversion that I do with there standard fee's, the Germans have a saying for this "doppelt gemoppelt" bassically meaning to have done something twice needlessly.

It sucks big time, especially like you said Pete when sending a large sum, saying that you try doing a direct bank transfer to the states etc, they may not screw you as bad with the exchange rates but the intermediary banks can take a slice & not even disclose the amount till after the transaction, so you end up having to send extra to cover what they have (IMO) stolen from you, but as its in the small print its all legal :x

If we did this kind of thing we would be being perused for fraud, just face it - the little man has always & always will be the one with no rights .

It would be nice to know just how much paypal make on this annually, I bet every active member on this forum could retire quite handsomely with the amount in question - criminal, sheer straight out criminal IMO, but who's going to listen if you did want something done??, I also wonder what paypals reply would be if the question were put to them directly???

 

[theslider]

Of course! They're ****ing theiving bastards! Nothing illegal about it though unfortunately.

What makes you say that? Seems very much illegal to me.

It's their system, they make the rules. It's just the same with any Bureau De Change - they can set whatever rates they like. Like, if you're at the airport and you need some currency you need to use the sharks there - I've seen people get 99cents for a quid!

 

[tiefighterboy]

They do the same thing here except the other way around. They increase the strength of the pound to get more dollars and I am sure they make out someway on this. Dickheads.

 

[PGowdy]

Of course! They're ****ing theiving bastards! Nothing illegal about it though unfortunately.

What makes you say that? Seems very much illegal to me.

It's their system, they make the rules. It's just the same with any Bureau De Change - they can set whatever rates they like. Like, if you're at the airport and you need some currency you need to use the sharks there - I've seen people get 99cents for a quid!

But the bureau de change don't hide the fact that they are "offering" you their rate and they are making money from you by doing this. That is all above board and they can charge what they want. What ebay is doing is entirely different and it's not "their system so they can do what they want" they still have to abide by the law. A Bureau De Change would stand up in a court of law and say "we are intentionally profiting from exchanging people's money at inflated rates" and they would have the law on their side. I very much doubt if ebay or paypal would be able to do the same. I'm sure their stance would be "we use the best and most accurate exchange rate we can find and never profit from them" Unless, like some have said, it is written somewhere in the small print that "ebay adds a 2% charge to all international transactions to cover the costs caused by exchange rates" or something to that eefect. Which personally i don't think it is.
As far as i'm aware, for something like this to be legal it MUST be declared. The customer must be informed of all all charges.

 

[itfciain]

found these on the subject

https://www.paypal-community.com/t5/Sending-money-Archive/Paypal-exchange-rate-way-off/td-p/82759

https://www.paypal-community.com/t5/My-Feedback-for-PayPal/Why-is-the-US-CAN-exchange-rate-always-wrong/td-p/455023

http://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/33863

From what I can see it look like paypal charge a fee to exchange money

"This exchange rate includes a 2.5% processing fee above the wholesale exchange rate at which PayPal obtains foreign currency, and the processing fee is retained by PayPal."

https://cms.paypal.com/au/cgi-bin/marketingweb?cmd=_render-content&content_ID=ua/FeesPolicy_full&locale.x=en_AU

 

[PGowdy]

Is that not the fee stated when you transfer money? As per my first picture. I'm aware they charge you to transfer money to the states. It's stated when sending the money. Are you saying they work a charge into the actual exchange rate as well?

 

[theslider]

The key wording from the theifpay wording that Iain posted is: "fee above the wholesale exchange " The fees you are talking about Pete are the fees that Paypal charge to us as 'customers' (arf!) not covering the exchange rate. They set their own exchange rate and it's set to make them more money out of transactions.

An analogous situation is if you get a foreign cheque and pay it into you UK bank account, the exchange rate is down to the bank itself.

But I think we're all agreed, paypal are utter cunts ripping off everyone, left right and centre.

 

[PGowdy]

Yeah, just reading through that link that Iain posted it seems everyone is in agreement that basically paypal sets their own exchange rate purely to profit (further!) from our transactions. And we're talking 10s of millions. Personally i think they need to be reported to watchdog. I'm gonna look into it. It may not be technically illegal but it is dishonest and for all intents and purposes a scam.

 

[weasel]

Just to confirm what a few others have said, this isn't anything new, they've been doing it for years and i'm sure they make a fortune from it.

 

[edd_jedi]

What really pisses me off is the eBay exchange rate, which sucks you into buying something. It says something like $400 with the very reasonable stirling equivalent underneath, butt hen when you go to pay it's actually £5 more. That should be illegal IMO. Bastards.

 

[PGowdy]

What really pisses me off is the eBay exchange rate, which sucks you into buying something. It says something like $400 with the very reasonable stirling equivalent underneath, butt hen when you go to pay it's actually £5 more. That should be illegal IMO. Bastards.

Agreed. It's disgusting.

 

[søren]

They are a bounch of wankeres. I have noticed the bad exchange rates as well here . Here in Denmark they own dba , a eBay like site where its free to sell stuff . They don't have the acution thing but it is free to put in ads . Some months back they did a big campaign to get people to use paypal as a payment. They said it was more safe for the buyer . This is a load of crap , they just want to eran the 3% of the amount . I wrote that on their Facebook page . And they just kept saying its because its more safe for the buyer . They did not want to answer me why I then had to pay the fee as a seller . When was free now to use bank transfer .

They just kept on it was more safe for the buyer . I asked if it was not the buyer that should pay the fee . But they never answered .

 

[Joe]

Just another hand in the air here from someone who thinks Paypal are cunts too.

Them ripping us all off is nothing new but..who else are you going to use to do the job?

Actually I kinda enjoyed the days of sending off cheques to random people on the net, sending cash was fun too But in all seriousness, the fact that most payments we send or receive show up instantly and allow us to get our goods quicker than the olden days is at least one benefit of using Cuntpal.

 

[itfciain]

Just another hand in the air here from someone who thinks Paypal are cunts too.

Them ripping us all off is nothing new but..who else are you going to use to do the job?

Actually I kinda enjoyed the days of sending off cheques to random people on the net, sending cash was fun too But in all seriousness, the fact that most payments we send or receive show up instantly and allow us to get our goods quicker than the olden days is at least one benefit of using Cuntpal.

In fairness to them, until the get a competitor then they are the best thing on the market for sending money abroad. I wanted to send payment to a guy in the States and he didn't have a paypal account - I looked into Western Union Transfer and Bank Transfer and both were looking at about £30 for the sort of money I wanted to send - in the end I gifted the money to Todd (who is a legend) and he was able to send the guy a money transfer - however by the time Todd has taken the money out of his account to send the transfer, then sent it to the guy through the posta nd for the guy to then cash it it we were talking two weeks

 

[tiefighterboy]

Yes Paypal and the internet has spoiled us. Does anybody remember having a "Pen Pal" in school? You sent letters to other countries to other kids to learn each others cultures. Now a days..I spend half my days in the UK without leaving my house. :lol: