Should live or recently ended eBay auctions be allowed to be outed on SWF

[Pomse2001]

I think it is great that we are allowed to discussing eBay, Vectis etc up-coming auctions

But I still think it is stange that we have to wait 7 days before we must discuss a finished auction :?

 

[edd_jedi]

I think it is great that we are allowed to discussing eBay, Vectis etc up-coming auctions

But I still think it is stange that we have to wait 7 days before we must discuss a finished auction :?

We'll have to word the rule quite carefully (in fact I need to write some rules as we don't have any :lol: ) but it only applies to auctions that have not been mentioned previously. Obviously if there is already a thread about an auction, it's fine to discuss it when it finishes (I enjoy the Vectis live commentary!)

This rule will be aimed specifically at 'under the radar' auctions that nobody has posted about yet. For example, a seller lists a Palitoy MOC without specifying it is Palitoy, and it sells for the price of a Kenner one. Wait a week until the item has been posted before discussing it, because otherwise some shady person will message the seller and offer more.

 

[jedisearcher]

So when do we find out what the big drama was about then? It's been a week.

 

[Joe]

But I still think it is stange that we have to wait 7 days before we must discuss a finished auction :?

You might not think it was strange if you had read the thread :lol:

There is a possibility on any recently ended auction for someone else to notice it and the ending price, contact the seller privately and then offer them more money..it's called Backdooring (basically attempting to steal someone elses buy before they get a chance to pay OR even after they've paid!).

7 days might seem like a long time but not everyone pays right away, not everyone ships right away..so it's just being proposed as a reasonable amount of time for the deal to go through between buyer and seller that's all.

 

[Joe]

The thing about allowing live auctions to be linked + discussed yet not recently completed ones is that they cross over and still allow backdooring to happen..

Lets say we are all aware of an auction because it was posted on here (be it a hidden gem, badly listed item or just something someone thought wasn't genuine yet actually was) ..the days go by, it ends and someone still decides to backdoor the original buyer (who might even be a forum member) all because they saw the auction on the forum..it just makes no sense to me :roll:

 

[edd_jedi]

You're right it's possible that could happen, but IMO the benefits outweigh the risk. I could phone up Vectis right now and offer £250 for the £240 trilogo Tie Pilot. We just have to assume most people have some integrity, and most auctions are not 'hidden gems'.

Let's face it this place would have been a ghost town for the last six months if not for all the Vectis threads

 

[weasel]

As it's pretty close I propose a compromise, I am all in favour of putting a 7 day ban on discussing finished auctions that have not already been posted, but for now people are allowed to continue discussing eBay, Vectis etc up-coming auctions.

Is everyone happy with that? We can always re-visit in future.

I think that's about as good an outcome as we'll get. I assume you're still happy for people to post blatant scammer auctions or daft/comedy ones for things no one would want and/or at prices no one could pay!?

 

[Mr-shifter]

Walkies auction with the badly listed uzay was outed when it was still live so that would have been ok under the new rules.

This is going to take some serious thinking about.

 

[Mr-shifter]

Oh, and the common sense thing should apply on the "crazy price" auction. If someone is asking for £500 for a beater then they are an idiot. If someone was asking for £1 for a beater and four people have bid it up to £500, chances are it's not as it seems.

 

[Joe]

You're right it's possible that could happen, but IMO the benefits outweigh the risk.

I'm not sure I understand what the benefits are though If you just want to highlight an auction to *someone* but aren't sure who that person is (either because you are new or don't know what people are looking for) then perhaps it's best you just let people find it on their own?

Another thing is that we can't be annoyed about high prices all over the place yet expose auctions to everyone because that in itself adds to the problem by driving prices up. The only time people get bargains that aren't BIN listings is if the auctions are missed..

I could phone up Vectis right now and offer £250 for the £240 trilogo Tie Pilot.

You could..but Vectis are not likely to accept your offer as an established auction house whereas a random seller on eBay who is getting hammered by fees and is easily tempted by a few extra quid will.

We just have to assume most people have some integrity, and most auctions are not 'hidden gems'.

I agree that not all are but they are out there. Sometimes people link to auctions they have no clue about which is part of the problem of allowing it, not everyone is experienced enough to spot the hidden gems.

Let's face it this place would have been a ghost town for the last six months if not for all the Vectis threads

Ah, but this is eBay we are talking about here. I quite agree that the Vectis threads have been interesting which is why I purposely left them out of this poll. The difference between the two is huge.

 

[edd_jedi]

Walkies auction with the badly listed uzay was outed when it was still live so that would have been ok under the new rules. This is going to take some serious thinking about.

It's not a new rule though - outing auctions has never been banned on here. Everyone is getting confused with RS. The eBay section has been on this site for about 8 years :lol:

 

[Palifan]

Walkies auction with the badly listed uzay was outed when it was still live so that would have been ok under the new rules. This is going to take some serious thinking about.

It's not a new rule though - outing auctions has never been banned on here. Everyone is getting confused with RS. The eBay section has been on this site for about 8 years :lol:

As I thought, 'outing auctions has never been banned on here', so could the person who locked my thread ( requested by Jason), after I removed the ebay link to the card backs please explain why they did that?

I'm not trying to kick up a fuss here and really have no problem with adding any more to the thread but am curious why this happened, it almost seems like a special case was taken here for some reason.

Ian

 

[edd_jedi]

Happy to unlock it mate, I think Joe just did that as people were discussing the topic and he then linked to this thread.

 

[Joe]

Yeah Edd is right it was me and just for the record nobody requested the thread to be locked, I simply locked it as the following comments led me to believe the discussion was over:

Will repost this once suitable time has past...

Link removed, we'll save that one for another day and hopefully Jason can shed some light for us all.

Ian

By the time I saw the thread it seemed like it was all over. Links were posted, Jason complained, links were removed..that was when I decided we needed to discuss and vote on auction outing in general (which is why we have this thread/poll) and figured there was little point in leaving that one open.

No special treatment given, feel free to open another thread about the same auction if Jason has now received the cardbacks or you can just use this one to hash things out.

 

[Mr-shifter]

Walkies auction with the badly listed uzay was outed when it was still live so that would have been ok under the new rules. This is going to take some serious thinking about.

It's not a new rule though - outing auctions has never been banned on here. Everyone is getting confused with RS. The eBay section has been on this site for about 8 years :lol:

Yep. Sorry. I was playing devils advocate and referring to this specific incident in the context of this proposed brave new world. It seemed to be one of the flashpoints for this conversation/debate and if the new rule was implemented as suggested, wouldn't have stopped the stress caused by the wholly accidental outing of those "hidden gems".

There's no ****ing way you could confuse this ****ing site with ****ing rs

 

[Palifan]

Link removed, we'll save that one for another day and hopefully Jason can shed some light for us all.

Ian

By the time I saw the thread it seemed like it was all over. Links were posted, Jason complained, links were removed..that was when I decided we needed to discuss and vote on auction outing in general (which is why we have this thread/poll) and figured there was little point in leaving that one open.

No special treatment given, feel free to open another thread about the same auction if Jason has now received the cardbacks or you can just use this one to hash things out.[/quote]


All understood and thanks Joe/Ed for clearing that all up.

No need to open the thread as I was just curious as to why it was locked and I did receive a pm to explain why Jason was upset about me posting the link in the first place ( also totally understandable), so I could see where the problem was. It does go to show though how easy it is to post something innocently in the hope of light being shed on it and then cause concern to a member on here. I doesn't even seem like the link I posted was where the issue was but it could have been harmful in another way.

Hopefully Jason will shed some light on all of this at some point.

Not quite sure where that leaves things with regards to this poll but I'm looking forward to seeing if there are some new guidelines on this whole ebay situation that we can follow. I do think it will make things a bit clearer for everyone and I really don't care what other places do with posting links like this as I'm only interested in following this forum and just because everyone else is doing things differently it really doesn't mean that we have to do the same. This place is so much more than just ebay/auction house listings, the people on here seem to actually care about the history of these things and passing on as much knowledge as possible.

Ian

 

[Pomse2001]

But I still think it is stange that we have to wait 7 days before we must discuss a finished auction :?

You might not think it was strange if you had read the thread :lol:

There is a possibility on any recently ended auction for someone else to notice it and the ending price, contact the seller privately and then offer them more money..it's called Backdooring (basically attempting to steal someone elses buy before they get a chance to pay OR even after they've paid!).

7 days might seem like a long time but not everyone pays right away, not everyone ships right away..so it's just being proposed as a reasonable amount of time for the deal to go through between buyer and seller that's all.

I have been reading most of the thread, maybe i just don't understand some of the words :lol:

I still think it is a little strange with this new rule. I mean how many times have this happen that some bad guy have offered more money for an ended auction and got it ? For me this is the first time I have heard about people is doing something like that :shock:

But the compromise from edd sounds great :wink:

 

[Joe]

I mean how many times have this happen that some bad guy have offered more money for an ended auction and got it ? For me this is the first time I have heard about people is doing something like that :shock:

But the compromise from edd sounds great :wink:

Really? First time you've ever heard of this practice?

I can pull up a handful of examples right now if you want proof that it happens haha

Walkies recent Uzay buy: http://starwarsforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?p=342009#p342009

Grant's TIE cardback: http://starwarsforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=24788&p=336424

Blarc backdooring Scott on RS: http://forum.rebelscum.com/t1070443/#post18573195

Can do the same for auction outing creating insane bidding wars too..

Never heard of Joseph Y's black snowtrooper? lol

If you've never been backdoored then you have ZERO clue how it feels and if you had then I bet you would be against outing auctions.

Same for live ones..how many of you people that voted "YES" to outing auctions drop links on the forum to the ones you are bidding on or interested in? Not many I bet :lol: Just doesn't happen, because deep down you are thinking "I hope nobody else has seen this.." and really it doesn't make sense to say "hey guys i'm bidding on this, check it out" opening yourself up to more competition..same thing happens on auctions you aren't bidding on yourself.

Of course everyone loves being tipped off on an auction they hadn't seen but that's not how you have to look at this when you vote :mrgreen:

 

[Joe]

These are two threads that show how auction outing can go wrong in different ways..

Probably the most well known auction outing failure ever: http://forum.rebelscum.com/t972528/

That auction was so well advertised due to that thread that it resulted in the winning bidder (Joe Y) spending far more than anyone ever dreamed he would have to, in order to win..in fact if I recall correctly, people (or just one person in particular) were throwing bids in just to **** with him towards the end and make him spend more than he had to.

There is also this one, in which the guy that posted the link was actually interested in the item himself but didn't know much about it: http://forum.rebelscum.com/t807370/

The auction was seen by another member (strangely enough Joe Y again lol) who knew what he was looking at yet hadn't seen it himself before then..he saw a golden opportunity to grab a bargain and bought it for his salacious crumb run..

Like I said, if someone wants to show me a few threads (or even one) in which a live auction was outed and there was a happy ending I would love to see it.. :lol:

 

[_Lee_]

All seems a bit 'RS-y' to me - think the site is well policed as it is without a whole new set of 'rules'

I was thinking the same thing myself Iain

Guys, i remember RS being like this forum in the early days (2002-2005 or so) then they started introducing rules, which has led to it becoming the cesspit it is. People blame facebook etc, but it is really the people like PW who seem to think they 'own' Star Wars. At least here we can talk bollocks, fall out and lose our temper-but anywhere else you are history. When you start down this route it will cause issues.

We have to understand that no one has any given right to anything. There is also going to be a battle for anything that is desired by many. Many people collect cardbacks, and im sure Jason knows that and accepts it. There is nothing wrong with giving others the heads up as many have done time and time again.

Leave this place as is Edd.