lejackal
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On the basis Alonso will want at least another year at Bayer Leverkusen
Premier League 23/24 Thread
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Sums up modern footballers, can you imagine Gerrard arguing with Owen over who was taking a pen when they first went into the team.
Thing is the entire team should want Cole Palmer to take every pen, a, he doesn't miss and goal difference could get them into europe and b, he's on for the golden boot.
Thing is the entire team should want Cole Palmer to take every pen, a, he doesn't miss and goal difference could get them into europe and b, he's on for the golden boot.
Well that wasnt what I was expecting.
Fair enough, Bayern away is a tricky one and Arsenal don't have a huge amount of CL experience, BUT that is (relatively speaking) a very poor Bayern side. I still thought Arsenal would have enough but they created FA squared. It's dead easy in hindsight but spending 60m on a non striker in Haeverts (and however much on Raya) does look strange business. Maybe there were no better strikers available, and they haven't struggled to score goals in the league, but against an experienced European side they didn't create much. Hard to know if it was a chance/window missed or just a bad day at the office.
City's game was the latter from what I saw. They dominated but just had one of those days were things didn't quite drop. Not like Real to get lucky/grind out an undeserved win in the CL
.
Disappointing night for English sides, and with Liverpool ****ing away their shot at the EL and WH having a massive task against Leverkusen, all eyes on Villa to complete the only leg of what I expected to be a hat-trick of European trophies heading back to Blighty.
Fair enough, Bayern away is a tricky one and Arsenal don't have a huge amount of CL experience, BUT that is (relatively speaking) a very poor Bayern side. I still thought Arsenal would have enough but they created FA squared. It's dead easy in hindsight but spending 60m on a non striker in Haeverts (and however much on Raya) does look strange business. Maybe there were no better strikers available, and they haven't struggled to score goals in the league, but against an experienced European side they didn't create much. Hard to know if it was a chance/window missed or just a bad day at the office.
City's game was the latter from what I saw. They dominated but just had one of those days were things didn't quite drop. Not like Real to get lucky/grind out an undeserved win in the CL
.Disappointing night for English sides, and with Liverpool ****ing away their shot at the EL and WH having a massive task against Leverkusen, all eyes on Villa to complete the only leg of what I expected to be a hat-trick of European trophies heading back to Blighty.
lejackal
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Yes, I think we played the game they wanted us to. Somewhat frustrating, but a weak Bayern side isn't exactly a pushover. I do feel we should've thrown caution the wind a bit earlier though - obviously a pumping could've been the end result, but sometimes games like that need someone to just grab it by the balls. ESR, Nelson and Vieira are hardly world class, but they're all fresh and should have a point to prove.
I think both City and Arsenal going out last night disprove the myth that the EPL is the best league and the likes of Real, Barca (3 years ago), Bayern,PSG etc aren't in competitive leagues. You don't get that good by winning against dross week in week out, look at Celtic's track record in Europe. As unlikeable as those teams are, they are the real deal and beating City and Arsenal is no fluke.
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Away goals rule City would have gone through, although you can't say that, I'm not sure Real Madrid would scored any more at City if that was still the rule, stupid sacking that off, now all of a sudden we're getting loads of penalty shoot outs.
Arsenal fail to score for second game in a row, worrying. I'm sure they will hit back at Wolves.
That BBC page! You've got one job, one job.
Arsenal fail to score for second game in a row, worrying. I'm sure they will hit back at Wolves.
That BBC page! You've got one job, one job.
lejackal
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At least it was the tag line, last season, or the one before they published the story that we lost when we actually got a last minute equaliser, maybe even winner. Shocking
No English teams in the Champs League or Europa semis- crazy! Really gutted we couldn't hold out for a win tonight. Leverkusen are one of those teams where literally everything is going right for them. Crappy, undeserved equaliser. Absolutely battered them first half, ran out of steam in the second, but still thoroughly deserved a win. Proud of them tonight. Ref was absolutely abysmal.
lejackal
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Any idea why Martinez wasn't sent off for the second yellow? Surely penalties are still part of the match? Obviously they'd have to have a keeper but should've been an outfield player?
Heard he got booked in the shoot out- didn't realise he'd already been booked, which as you say, should surely be a red? He's an obnoxious twat.
Agreed, 100%, but Arsenal are a better team than Bayern. They just didnt show it. Like Liverpool are a better team than Atalanta, except not on current form.
Yeah, that's the main reason I was a bit worried about Alonsomif he got the Pool job. He has 18months managerial experience and Leverkusen are clearly riding a wave (partly made up of luck). Brave call by him to stick rather than go to Pool or Bayern.
Apparently, yellow cards dont carry over into penalty shoot outs in the EL. I assume the same rule applies in CL and ECL too. That seems like an utterly bizarre rule. It allows tossers like Martinez to continue to be tossers during a penalty shoot out. It almost rewards bad behaviour by giving him a clean slate again. No idea why it was brought in, "to stop keepers being sent off" is a bit daft as if they get a second yellow they have clearly deserved it and been ****ing about so they SHOULD be sent off. I would expect that rule to be changed in the summer. I would be VERY VERY pissed off if I was Lille.
So before I cry in 4 weeks time when we're still on 60 points, I'd like to highlight the biggest fixture stitch up I can recall. It's hard enough having to play those 4 teams any time of the season, let alone your last 5 games. And yes, I know everyone plays everyone and we shouldn't have bent over against Wolves twice etc...
I don't think we'll have a say in the title race, I'm almost positive it will be four defeats. If we get 6 points from those 5 games, I would be thrilled.
I don't think we'll have a say in the title race, I'm almost positive it will be four defeats. If we get 6 points from those 5 games, I would be thrilled.
As long as you get royally shafted by VAR at Anfield I don't mind! 
Lol
Though we all know, if you do get shafted by VAR, it will be against City and it will be game deciding in their favour. No penalty for Liverpool when Doku booted MacAllister in the chest in stoppage time, no penalty for Chelsea when Grealish used his arm to block a free kick, and was it Kovacevic who should have been sent off against Arsenal? Weird how all the big calls in the big games go for the club who pay refs to fly out to Saudi to "teach" their refs.
Ps, Utd you JAMMY JAMMY bastards.
I only saw ET, but that was a bloody tight Offside call in your favour, and if you need that to keep you in a tie against a Championship after having been 3-0 up with half an hour left, you don't deserve to go through.
City will either beat you 3/4/5/6-0 or it will be a horrible scrapy game with one goal in it.
LolThough we all know, if you do get shafted by VAR, it will be against City and it will be game deciding in their favour. No penalty for Liverpool when Doku booted MacAllister in the chest in stoppage time, no penalty for Chelsea when Grealish used his arm to block a free kick, and was it Kovacevic who should have been sent off against Arsenal? Weird how all the big calls in the big games go for the club who pay refs to fly out to Saudi to "teach" their refs.
Ps, Utd you JAMMY JAMMY bastards.
I only saw ET, but that was a bloody tight Offside call in your favour, and if you need that to keep you in a tie against a Championship after having been 3-0 up with half an hour left, you don't deserve to go through.
City will either beat you 3/4/5/6-0 or it will be a horrible scrapy game with one goal in it.
Man U deserved to go out, that's for sure. Such as shame that last gasp Cov goal was off.
When I heard Forest had openly complained on social media about the non-pens in their game, and a Luton fan being on the VAR team, I thought they were just being a bit whiney again. Then I saw the decisions... WTF? How they didn't get at least 2 of those, I have no idea. You know for sure that the Sky 6 would've got at least 2 of them. The whole thing is getting worse and worse. It's bringing the game into disrepute. If Forest take and win any sort of legal action, it will open the floodgates. What a mess!
When I heard Forest had openly complained on social media about the non-pens in their game, and a Luton fan being on the VAR team, I thought they were just being a bit whiney again. Then I saw the decisions... WTF? How they didn't get at least 2 of those, I have no idea. You know for sure that the Sky 6 would've got at least 2 of them. The whole thing is getting worse and worse. It's bringing the game into disrepute. If Forest take and win any sort of legal action, it will open the floodgates. What a mess!
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You know it's bad when you're 3-0 up with 20 minutes to go but everyone is saying you deserved to go out!
ETH should mug all the senior players off and play the youth for the rest of the season, will never happen. He's gone in the summer if he persists with the senior players.
ETH should mug all the senior players off and play the youth for the rest of the season, will never happen. He's gone in the summer if he persists with the senior players.
I've seen the 3 Forest non penalties and TBH I wouldn't give the first two. But Ashley Young could well have set a new record as the first player to give away three penalties in a game.
Taking Forest's non pens in order.
There is undoubtedly contact in the first one, but as I keep saying 'contact does NOT equal a foul' and yer man goes down like the fella from Platoon. Why his arms come swinging out like that and he looks like he has been shot I will never know. That alone means he doesn't deserve a penalty, but even so I don't think there was enough contact there for a penalty. If you start to give stuff like that then it's open season for diving in the penalty box, or throwing yourself to the ground at the slightest touch. and **** knows no one likes diving. We can't all sit here and curse at players diving and then say they should get a penalty for the slightest touch in the box.
The second one is very subjective, I THINK (I haven't seen a full video of it only a few stills) Youngs arm is up, but it is a result of his leg being up trying to block the cross/shot and thus I reckon is probably in what they call a "natural position". Your arm comes up as a counter balance when you lift your leg at that speed. We have all seen them given, and we've seen the first one given too, but I think not giving it was the right call.
The last one is a foul all day long. The ref says he got the ball. Ehhh, yeah, he did, he got the ball THROUGH Callum Hudson Odoy's foot. That'll be a foul. I can understand the ref missing that as it is close and hard to spot at full time, but ehhh VAR That. Is. Your. Job!
Nothing will happen about it all though. The PL will fine Forest for their tweet and PGMOL will continue as they have done all season, serially ruining games week in week out. If club's wanted to do anything about VAR the time to do it was when Liverpool got royally shafted at Spurs. That shambles was the time to say "hold on, you boys are making a mess of this." Almost every dodgy VAR call you can at least make an argument for the decision, like I did above, but the Liverpool one was a totally different kettle of fish. It was VAR and the referee literally not knowing what they were looking at and being on different pages. Subjective calls happen all the time. We probably disagree on some of those Forest penalties, but the Liverpool one was a procedural **** up, everyone agrees it was a goal. But instead of realising that it would come back to bite them eventually clubs decided it was easier to laugh at Liverpool and now it's too late. You need another decision along the lines of that to be able to do something about it. Otherwise the PL/PGMOL can rightly point to the fact they got away with that so why should a bad offside or missed pen suddenly be treated differently.
Ohh and I would say ETH is away regardless of what he does for the rest of the season. His only hope is win over City in FAC, a few decent performances between now and then and the new guys to accept that part of the blame lay with the old structure of the club. Even so, it's probably easier just to fire him and move on. The question is, who do you get?
And who do WH get? Talk of Almorion. I don't think Moyesy has done a bad job, but he has probably taken the club as far as he can. There aren't huge numbers of decent managers out there though.
Taking Forest's non pens in order.
There is undoubtedly contact in the first one, but as I keep saying 'contact does NOT equal a foul' and yer man goes down like the fella from Platoon. Why his arms come swinging out like that and he looks like he has been shot I will never know. That alone means he doesn't deserve a penalty, but even so I don't think there was enough contact there for a penalty. If you start to give stuff like that then it's open season for diving in the penalty box, or throwing yourself to the ground at the slightest touch. and **** knows no one likes diving. We can't all sit here and curse at players diving and then say they should get a penalty for the slightest touch in the box.
The second one is very subjective, I THINK (I haven't seen a full video of it only a few stills) Youngs arm is up, but it is a result of his leg being up trying to block the cross/shot and thus I reckon is probably in what they call a "natural position". Your arm comes up as a counter balance when you lift your leg at that speed. We have all seen them given, and we've seen the first one given too, but I think not giving it was the right call.
The last one is a foul all day long. The ref says he got the ball. Ehhh, yeah, he did, he got the ball THROUGH Callum Hudson Odoy's foot. That'll be a foul. I can understand the ref missing that as it is close and hard to spot at full time, but ehhh VAR That. Is. Your. Job!
Nothing will happen about it all though. The PL will fine Forest for their tweet and PGMOL will continue as they have done all season, serially ruining games week in week out. If club's wanted to do anything about VAR the time to do it was when Liverpool got royally shafted at Spurs. That shambles was the time to say "hold on, you boys are making a mess of this." Almost every dodgy VAR call you can at least make an argument for the decision, like I did above, but the Liverpool one was a totally different kettle of fish. It was VAR and the referee literally not knowing what they were looking at and being on different pages. Subjective calls happen all the time. We probably disagree on some of those Forest penalties, but the Liverpool one was a procedural **** up, everyone agrees it was a goal. But instead of realising that it would come back to bite them eventually clubs decided it was easier to laugh at Liverpool and now it's too late. You need another decision along the lines of that to be able to do something about it. Otherwise the PL/PGMOL can rightly point to the fact they got away with that so why should a bad offside or missed pen suddenly be treated differently.
That was my thoughts exactly, albeit I was more annoyed that Arsenal got to face Chelsea without their best player.
Ohh and I would say ETH is away regardless of what he does for the rest of the season. His only hope is win over City in FAC, a few decent performances between now and then and the new guys to accept that part of the blame lay with the old structure of the club. Even so, it's probably easier just to fire him and move on. The question is, who do you get?
And who do WH get? Talk of Almorion. I don't think Moyesy has done a bad job, but he has probably taken the club as far as he can. There aren't huge numbers of decent managers out there though.
