Driving question

[pizzathehutt]

I've not long passed my test and have started to encounter box junctions.

Now I know when you have a green light but the junction is full not to go but twice tonight I started to go so went past the green light but had to stop before the box junction because it was not clear and the lights had changed back to red so I ended being in limbo I guess on a crossing just after the traffic lights but just before the start of the box junction and the. Eventually I went through when the light went green again.

Can I get done for being in limbo? So I've gone but then had to sit after the lights but before the box junction then waited before the box junction if that makes sense?

 

[indianawars]

If it's not clear, the highway code will always tell you not to go unless you're giving way for emergency vehicles . If you stopped inside a yellow painted crosshatch box, then that's a big no. It is tough though. If you don't force your way in some times, no one else will let you go.

 

[Snaketibe]

Obviously I am unfamiliar with the exact layout of the lights and box junction you are referring to, but assuming there is at least a car's length after the lights but before the box junction, then as far as I know, you are correct in what you did. You must not enter a box junction unless your exit from it is clear, and obviously you can only go passed traffic lights when they are green, so if the lights were green when you went passed those, that's fine. However, if a box junction immediately follows after the lights and you have not yet entered that because your exit from it is not clear, then you are also correct to wait. Had you ended up waiting in the box junction, you certainly could receive a penalty / fine (and usually will if it's camera monitored), but since you hadn't actually entered it, you've done nothing wrong, and in fact everything right. The only thing you might have to convince a Police Officer about is that the lights were green when you went passed them, but what choice did you have? The lights were green so you moved ahead, but the box junction then failed to clear before the lights went red again, so you waited.

 

[pizzathehutt]

Obviously I am unfamiliar with the exact layout of the lights and box junction you are referring to, but assuming there is at least a car's length after the lights but before the box junction, then as far as I know, you are correct in what you did. You must not enter a box junction unless your exit from it is clear, and obviously you can only go passed traffic lights when they are green, so if the lights were green when you went passed those, that's fine. However, if a box junction immediately follows after the lights and you have not yet entered that because your exit from it is not clear, then you are also correct to wait. Had you ended up waiting in the box junction, you certainly could receive a penalty / fine (and usually will if it's camera monitored), but since you hadn't actually entered it, you've done nothing wrong, and in fact everything right. The only thing you might have to convince a Police Officer about is that the lights were green when you went passed them, but what choice did you have? The lights were green so you moved ahead, but the box junction then failed to clear before the lights went red again, so you waited.

This is what I was hoping to hear, thanks very much for putting my mind at rest.

It was right near Wembley stadium, I was visiting someone in hospital nearby but fleetwood Mac are on tonight so it was a nightmare and box junctions everywhere

 

[Snaketibe]

Obviously I am unfamiliar with the exact layout of the lights and box junction you are referring to, but assuming there is at least a car's length after the lights but before the box junction, then as far as I know, you are correct in what you did. You must not enter a box junction unless your exit from it is clear, and obviously you can only go passed traffic lights when they are green, so if the lights were green when you went passed those, that's fine. However, if a box junction immediately follows after the lights and you have not yet entered that because your exit from it is not clear, then you are also correct to wait. Had you ended up waiting in the box junction, you certainly could receive a penalty / fine (and usually will if it's camera monitored), but since you hadn't actually entered it, you've done nothing wrong, and in fact everything right. The only thing you might have to convince a Police Officer about is that the lights were green when you went passed them, but what choice did you have? The lights were green so you moved ahead, but the box junction then failed to clear before the lights went red again, so you waited.

This is what I was hoping to hear, thanks very much for putting my mind at rest.

It was right near Wembley stadium, I was visiting someone in hospital nearby but fleetwood Mac are on tonight so it was a nightmare and box junctions everywhere

Hmmm, I hope I didn't speak too soon. Your question got me thinking... Logic and fairness would dictate that your actions were both fair and reasonable, but sadly the law isn't always either of those things, and so I looked this up on the Highway Code website:

https://www.highwaycodeuk.co.uk/road-junctions.html

The Highway Code says of box junctions:

174
Box junctions. These have criss-cross yellow lines painted on the road (download 'Road markings'). You MUST NOT enter the box until your exit road or lane is clear. However, you may enter the box and wait when you want to turn right, and are only stopped from doing so by oncoming traffic, or by other vehicles waiting to turn right. At signalled roundabouts you MUST NOT enter the box unless you can cross over it completely without stopping.
Law TSRGD regs 10(1) & 29(2)


However it also states more generally about traffic light controlled junctions:


Junctions controlled by traffic lights

175
You MUST stop behind the white 'Stop' line across your side of the road unless the light is green. If the amber light appears you may go on only if you have already crossed the stop line or are so close to it that to stop might cause a collision.
Laws RTA 1988 sect 36 & TSRGD regs 10 & 36

176
You MUST NOT move forward over the white line when the red light is showing. Only go forward when the traffic lights are green if there is room for you to clear the junction safely or you are taking up a position to turn right. If the traffic lights are not working, treat the situation as you would an unmarked junction and proceed with great care.
Laws RTA 1988 sect 36 & TSRGD regs 10 & 36


Therefore, whilst what you did is certainly preferable to stopping inside the box junction (unless waiting to turn right and your exit road from it is clear, of course), it could also be argued that you broke the Highway Code by not having a clear exit from the box junction ahead when you crossed the green light. However, my response to that would be that the penalty fines for stopping in box junctions are generally for precisely that; stopping inside the box junction, which is something you did not do. Sadly though Councils are strapped for cash everywhere these days thanks to Central Government strangling off the Local Government grants year on year, and hence they are looking to fleece motorists wherever they can with whopping fines for relatively trivial offences to drum up funds. Whether they will deem your action to also be another fine-worthy offence I couldn't say, but you did something I dare say a great many motorists would have done, myself probably included.

 

[theforceuk]

Glad we don't have box junctions in Devon. :? :lol:

 

[UKS]

London driving is survival of the fittest.

 

[StarWarsFan]

London driving is survival of the fittest.

I'll vouch for that, bloody scary.