Worrying trend

steve obi wan

Sith Lord
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I have noticed a worrying trend of people bleaching , customising , changing figures , playsets and trying to condone it as creating a new playset , saving beaters etc

This type of customising is almost as bad as U grading , as its destroying vintage items .

What's your thoughts ?
 
if i were in the market for a minty white stormie which im not. i wouldnt use ebay. there seems to be influx of nice white stormies these days on the bay.

bleaching seems to be in and read some threads on FB where it seems fashionable to bleach stormies........... :evil:
 
I don't see the harm. I reckon it's about as damaging as French Polishing an antique table.
 
I read on FB someone was going to convert a cantina into a Death Star scene , by painting it . Maybe I am too much of a purist ! :shock:
 
Besides anything else, bleaching doesn't really work. Whatever it is you've treated will go yellow again within a short time.

Admittedly I did have a go on my 12 inch stormie a long while back. Just went back to how it was
 
I'm firmly in the camp that customs are fine.

Millions of loose figures exist, sensible collectors can fairly simply identify that they are not destroying a particularly rare COO/variant
If they are created in a way to not be passed off as an original I don't see the problem. In these cases (my own personal customs are always trashed, common 'beater' figures before I make them and I'm also a variant collector - check out my appropriate limelights if required) the beaters would be passed over by even an entry level collector. They have a value of only a couple of quid each at most and are no loss to the wider community.

I'd liken it to wandering around Rome and being able to pic up Roman 'artefacts' as in shards of pottery every few 100 yards in the flowerbeds and at the side of roads, they are meaningless to any collector of Roman pottery, they have no historical significance and no real value. If however you picked up a few bits and added them to a mosaic you're making at home it will of course be improved by the pieces you picked up, mainly because of the experience of creating rather than the final product. **

To compare it to U grading is beyond daft IMO... have you been drinking?
Nothing irreplaceable is destroyed in making a custom loose figure (unlike opening a sealed MOC from its packaging (and associated history that is lost in doing that)) and there is literally a limitless supply of loose beaters out there... I have over a dozen completed LXW customs and a dozen more in a bag I could use to make more as required.

Playsets, I've only ever seen a couple of beater cantinas sprayed black and turned into death star playsets with a new backdrop (lets remember the value and 'rarity' is in the cardboard certainly not the plastic) as well as a few 'toys that never got made' such as the ones in Matt Fox's (Bonsai Tree Ent) exhibition in Canterbury (well worth a visit if still on by the way) that made up a two seater X-wing and a Banta amongst others. I'm relatively tempted with a couple of these as a project and have a cantina plastic base and a Dewback (to be donor for the Bantha) already in hand, just need the time to get them started.

Bleaching though I do have an issue with along with any touch-ups that in anyway try to pass off the items as better quality items than they are.I really do think these are two separate subjects and should be discussed as such.

**Legal note, despitethe prevalence of Roman pottery on the streets of Rome, I don't know the legal standpoint of picking up spoil and carrying across borders. I am therefore not condoning this specific activity that is used for demonstration purposes only :lol: :lol:
 
Bleaching is daft in my opinion, as Barry says, will go yellow again, so pointless.
Todd .....get some pics up as said of your yellow stormies, love to see them.

Inking boxes I don't agree with, big no no, but ironing, starching and straightening them is fine with me.

Beater Mocs/reseals quick clean with a duster, popped in a star case etc look brilliant for me, and keep vintage as vintage, happy days :D
 
My stand on this is anything and everything that's in remotely good condition shouldn't be dicked with. Whether it's figures, ships playsets or whatever they should be preserved in their original state. But, I agree that figures that are beaters with a good amount of paint rubbed off, not of interest to collectors and only good for kids to play with are ok to customize or paint. I used to paint Warhammer figures a long time ago and I must admit, I've had an idea for a while to repaint a full set of beaters as film accurate as possible with layering and washes and so on, change the vinyl capes for cloth etc. Just as a little project, don't know whether I'll ever get round to it. I don't think it's a big deal really, thare are millions of beaters out there.
 
Well first off, we should all agree (whether we would personally do it ourselves, or whether we 'approve' of it or not) that what a person chooses to legally do with their own property is entirely up to them. If someone was fortunate enough to own a double-telescoping Darth Vader on a Palitoy 12 back and then chose to open it and burn the sabre, no laws have been broken. Most of us would think the owner insane for doing so, but if the figure was theirs they can do whatever the hell they like with it and it is absolutely none of our business.

Opening beater cards is again, the owner's business and no-one else's, although as has quite rightly been pointed out by others elsewhere, you can almost always obtain a mint loose figure for less money than a carded beater, so why the hell you would choose to do this with the overwhelming majority of figures seems a bit of a mystery... except of course that some people are idiots and others are wastrels, so I guess it's not such a mystery after all. But again, even though we personally might not dream of doing the same thing, what someone else does with their own property is up to them. It's fundamentally no different than someone hoarding multiples of the same item and then never selling them. I've seen collections with a dozen vinyl Jawas and a dozen boxed A-Wings. Some collectors grumble that this reduces the availability and pushes up the price of those items for other collectors (both of which are true, of course). Others argue that it is a highly selfish thing to do (arguably also correct), but once again in reality, even though the rest of us may detest the practice (and I'm certainly no fan of it), we simply do not have a right to complain about it.

Likewise, if someone chooses to touch up or bleach or lavish repro accessories on their own property, once again, it's absolutely none of our business. All this specious nonsense about 'harming the wider collecting community' is entirely irrelevant in these instances for as long as that altered property belongs to the individual that changes or destroys it, because they have no obligation to anyone else in that regard. The rest of us might not do the same and almost certainly won't like the fact that it has happened, but really, we have no right to bitch or complain about it..... until it is sold.

At that point it certainly does become an issue, and a very important one. Providing any alterations / reproduction parts or accessories are always fully declared when an item is sold, then everyone knows where they stand. The problem of course is that not everyone is honest in this world, and there are plenty of unscrupulous bastards who will happily try to pass off fakes, retouched and repro items as the genuine, unaltered article. These odious scumbags are cheats, liars and criminals and I have absolutely no time for them, and we should do our best to expose and fight them at every opportunity. It also inevitably leads to some of these items being sold on in ignorance by honest people who don't realise they are selling fakes.

So what's my point? That for as long as an item remains yours, you are perfectly entitled to do whatever you like with it and no-one else has any right to criticise you for it. However, due to our inability to control the actions of others, morally you should not then sell it on to anyone else, and certainly not without full disclosure of any changes made, and absolutely never to anyone you do not 100% trust not to sell it on again without full disclosure (which in most cases means never selling it, of course). It's a subject that makes many collectors quite irate (clearly), but it's also one that definitely warrants this debate and heightening the awareness of others both to the practices themselves, and the potential pitfalls of buying from untrustworthy sources.
 
steve obi wan said:
I read on FB someone was going to convert a cantina into a Death Star scene , by painting it . Maybe I am too much of a purist ! :shock:

I saw the finished thing. The guy had a spare Cantina base only. There wasn't any sacrilege going on IMO.
 
Just to make a point , it's totally my view .

Everyone has the right to do what they want with their collection , I agree , however as fellow collections we have the responsibility and duty of care to challenge things that will damage or affect the hobby . That's why we are part of the collecting community . It's down to each person to make their own decision .

So in my view , it may only be a cantina base , however if a fellow collector needed a base to complete his cantina playset , that's 1 gone .
 
steve obi wan said:
Just to make a point , it's totally my view .

Everyone has the right to do what they want with their collection , I agree , however as fellow collections we have the responsibility and duty of care to challenge things that will damage or affect the hobby . That's why we are part of the collecting community . It's down to each person to make their own decision .

So in my view , it may only be a cantina base , however if a fellow collector needed a base to complete his cantina playset , that's 1 gone .

Its a fair point and I respect your view; apologies for such a long winded reply! :D
 
SAVORY100 said:
steve obi wan said:
Just to make a point , it's totally my view .

Everyone has the right to do what they want with their collection , I agree , however as fellow collections we have the responsibility and duty of care to challenge things that will damage or affect the hobby . That's why we are part of the collecting community . It's down to each person to make their own decision .

So in my view , it may only be a cantina base , however if a fellow collector needed a base to complete his cantina playset , that's 1 gone .

Its a fair point and I respect your view; apologies for such a long winded reply! :D

As I do yours Stephen !
 
steve obi wan said:
SAVORY100 said:
steve obi wan said:
Just to make a point , it's totally my view .

Everyone has the right to do what they want with their collection , I agree , however as fellow collections we have the responsibility and duty of care to challenge things that will damage or affect the hobby . That's why we are part of the collecting community . It's down to each person to make their own decision .

So in my view , it may only be a cantina base , however if a fellow collector needed a base to complete his cantina playset , that's 1 gone .

Its a fair point and I respect your view; apologies for such a long winded reply! :D


As I do yours Stephen !

Sorry a wee bit too serious :lol:
 
The whole 'its mine so I can do what I want' really grates on me - of course that is the truth and no-one can stop you. But don't come on vintage forums and pages celebrating the fact that you ****ed up something that others would like to collect in it's pure form

And basically I mean Ugrades and crap like that - what people do with £2 beaters is up to them - as long as the effort isn't to try and make it look like a mint version of the original (and therefore have the potential to scam others)
 
Exactly , that's sort of my original view , don't go onto forums / FB bragging about destroying vintage items and bollocks like its my Items :twisted:
 
By the sounds of things, I think most people here are singing off the same hymn sheet. Although they have a perfect right to do it, I wince when I see what some people choose to do to their stuff. My own pet hate is seeing a beautiful and highly valuable boxed or carded collection displayed in direct sunlight!... It irritates the hell out of me that someone would be so astonishingly stupid as to damage their own collection like that, but as already stated, however annoying it might be for the rest of us, the owner has that right. No one here, not you and certainly not me, has a right to dictate how anyone else should or shouldn't behave with regards to their own property, or with respect to this hobby (unless it's illegal, of course). If some idiot wants to waste thousands letting sunlight fade their boxes, we can't stop them, just as we can't force anyone else to behave in a certain way with respect to our hobby. No one person owns this hobby and whilst the majority of us cringe when another rarity bites the dust, it doesn't do any good to get upset about it either.

However, I certainly agree with itfciain that bragging about damaging items to people who certainly won't appreciate seeing you doing it is both rude and stupid and just makes you look an asshole. What people do in the privacy of their own collections is up to them, but rubbing people's noses in it will never go down well. Having said that, I haven't seen many people doing that on this forum, as the members here tend to be more intelligent and genuinely caring about the items that bring us all here. Long may that continue.
 
Snaketibe said:
I haven't seen many people doing that on this forum, as the members here tend to be more intelligent and genuinely caring about the items that bring us all here. Long may that continue.

I think Todd and a few others would have something to do with that :lol:
 
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