The Lord of the Rings - The Rings of Power ?

[Pomse2001]

Has any of you seen the new Lords of the Rings series ? and what do you think about it ?

I have not seen it yet. I can see people on IMDB do not like it very much

 

[lejackal]

I've been enjoying it. People need to remember it's a series set in Tolkiens universe that takes inspiration from the books, it's not a cinematic verbatim of the Silmarillion.

 

[weasel]

I've been enjoying it. People need to remember it's a series set in Tolkiens universe that takes inspiration from the books, it's not a cinematic verbatim of the Silmarillion.

Thank **** it isn't the Silmarilian is all but unreadable. 300pages of unpronounceable name, son of unpronounceable name, son of unpronounceable name, from unpronounceable name, which is close to unpronounceable name. The original unpronounceable name has a friend called unpronounceable name, who is son of unpronounceable name, son of unpronounceable name, from unpronounceable name, which is close to unpronounceable name. And they met unpronounceable name etc. etc.

If you think I'm joking go find a copy of the book and TRY and read AND understand a chapter. It's beyond impenetrable.

Not heard much on the series, bar ppl on twitter complaining about it, but I suspect a part of that is cos the cast isn't shock horror…..all white! Black Dwarves and Elves wouldn't bother me, as long as the story was good. Female Dwarves is a wee bit PC (I don't remember them in any of Tolkein's books) but again, I could live with it if the story was good.
I mean, they bastardised the Hobbit by adding a she elf and legolas etc.

 

[Cazza]

I really liked it. It has it's problems, but overall, really liked it. Very cinematic.

 

[lejackal]

Thank **** it isn't the Silmarilian is all but unreadable. 300pages of unpronounceable name, son of unpronounceable name, son of unpronounceable name, from unpronounceable name, which is close to unpronounceable name. The original unpronounceable name has a friend called unpronounceable name, who is son of unpronounceable name, son of unpronounceable name, from unpronounceable name, which is close to unpronounceable name. And they met unpronounceable name etc. etc.

If you think I'm joking go find a copy of the book and TRY and read AND understand a chapter. It's beyond impenetrable.

Not heard much on the series, bar ppl on twitter complaining about it, but I suspect a part of that is cos the cast isn't shock horror…..all white! Black Dwarves and Elves wouldn't bother me, as long as the story was good. Female Dwarves is a wee bit PC (I don't remember them in any of Tolkein's books) but again, I could live with it if the story was good.
I mean, they bastardised the Hobbit by adding a she elf and legolas etc.

Oh I've had a crack at the Silmarillion a few times over the years, it's a full on history in another language. And I say this as someone that has to read and analyse legal documents for a living.

Female dwarves were mentioned in the Hobbit or the Fellowship but were described as also having beards and being difficult to tell from men.

As for the bastardisation of the hobbit, and to a lesser extent the LOTR, is nigh on impossible to translate the works of Tolkien to the big screen. I wish they'd left the hobbit to a single movie, or two parts maximum.

 

[Pomse2001]

Ok maybe I should give it a try I looked at imdb and I could only find bad words from people that had seen it og tried to see it. I have never read the books. But I have never heard about black elves, dwarfs etc. etc. in this LOTR univers.

I hope not that I sound like a racist. I must admit I do not like they change something like that if the creater of the books had never writen about them.

I have the same feeling about andor that something is wrong because there was no black imperials in sw, esb and rotj.

But with all this black lives matters in movies and tv series then I think they sometimes make more damage than good when they change something like that. I mean sometimes there is also movies where there is no room for white people and that is ok with me. There is also great movies with only black people in them.

We also see a lot more black than native american people in us movies and tv series. Does native american people still not matters I have heard something about a movie cannot get an oscar if there is not a black in the movie, I do not know if that is correct ? but I have never heard about a movie cannot get an oscar if there is no native american people in the movie or if there is not an asian in the movie

Is there any streaming problems with prime ? I had prime a few years ago and I had big problems with playing movies without the movie took a break 1 second or a few seconds and I have a very fast internet so I did not understand it so I cancelled prime a few years ago.

 

[lejackal]

I mean the colour of someones skin from a fictional is rarely mentioned in fantasy books beyond blue, green, red etc - especially those written nearly a century ago. In LOTR Tolkien described the Haridrim (spelling) as swarthy men, meaning dark skinned, but I don't recall anything about elves or dwarves that would differentiate norther elves from southern elves. From that perspective people should be more upset that the southern men in RoP are not dark skinned rather than getting upset about one elf and one dwarf that are black.

 

[weasel]

Agreed @lejackal on skin colour in books. I don't really care what colour the actor is, I do get a bit annoyed when people get jobs or get cast just so the producers can tick every box. Black, tick. Asian, tick. Strong female, tick. Hispanic, tick. etc etc etc. (Hello Disney and Ruin Johnson, looking at you!)


I also agree the Hobbit should have been two films, or even one very long one. Three just required so much padding that it ruined it.

 

[peekaygee73]

On LOTR... I read the trilogy as a kid, read The Hobbit in later life and also found The Silmarillion impenetrable. I could never be bothered with any of the films so still haven't seen them and the thought of the TV series doesn't excite me either.

Ok maybe I should give it a try I looked at imdb and I could only find bad words from people that had seen it og tried to see it. I have never read the books. But I have never heard about black elves, dwarfs etc. etc. in this LOTR univers.

I hope not that I sound like a racist. I must admit I do not like they change something like that if the creater of the books had never writen about them.

I have the same feeling about andor that something is wrong because there was no black imperials in sw, esb and rotj.

But with all this black lives matters in movies and tv series then I think they sometimes make more damage than good when they change something like that. I mean sometimes there is also movies where there is no room for white people and that is ok with me. There is also great movies with only black people in them.

We also see a lot more black than native american people in us movies and tv series. Does native american people still not matters I have heard something about a movie cannot get an oscar if there is not a black in the movie, I do not know if that is correct ? but I have never heard about a movie cannot get an oscar if there is no native american people in the movie or if there is not an asian in the movie

Is there any streaming problems with prime ? I had prime a few years ago and I had big problems with playing movies without the movie took a break 1 second or a few seconds and I have a very fast internet so I did not understand it so I cancelled prime a few years ago.

OK, I know these kind of discussions can escalate quickly but here goes...

More generally, it's inevitable that films/TVs represent the time they are made, so a 2020s film will have more ethnic diversity than a 1970s film. You can guarantee that if all Imperials in the new films were white then there'd be a section of society raising hell about white people being demonised. Weirdly, you never read of these people complaining about the representation of Jesus (for example) as a white man when he wouldn't have been.

There's so much contrary and misinformation around Black Lives Matter it's almost impossible to have a discussion about it, and as a white middle-aged man I'm one of the worst qualified people to discuss it anyway. What I do is listen to those whose lives have been affected by the colour of their skin. I've spent a lot of time in the US deep south and I can completely understand the need for some kind of reform. In the US I was astonished about how some of my white colleagues were openly talking to their black counterparts, and this was only 10-15 years ago. It's also worth reading up on the impact British colonisation (as an example - other colonisations are available) has on those countries today. The journalist Laura Trevelyan did a great piece about her family's slave owning past in Grenada, and the challenges Grenadians still face today as a result of colonisation.

It's not true that films can't win an Oscar if there are no black people in them, but there are rules around representation of 'under-represented identity groups' that a film needs to meet in order to be nominated/win. So to your point that would include asian and native americans too. The rules are explained here and I'm not going to pretend they're particularly easy to follow... BUT they're so wide-ranging as to make it almost impossible for a film not to qualify. The talent is out there, so it's not a case of employing people who don't have the skills to meet a quota, it's about creating equity.

 

[Michael Sith]

Really enjoyed it

 

[Pomse2001]

On LOTR... I read the trilogy as a kid, read The Hobbit in later life and also found The Silmarillion impenetrable. I could never be bothered with any of the films so still haven't seen them and the thought of the TV series doesn't excite me either.



OK, I know these kind of discussions can escalate quickly but here goes...

More generally, it's inevitable that films/TVs represent the time they are made, so a 2020s film will have more ethnic diversity than a 1970s film. You can guarantee that if all Imperials in the new films were white then there'd be a section of society raising hell about white people being demonised. Weirdly, you never read of these people complaining about the representation of Jesus (for example) as a white man when he wouldn't have been.

There's so much contrary and misinformation around Black Lives Matter it's almost impossible to have a discussion about it, and as a white middle-aged man I'm one of the worst qualified people to discuss it anyway. What I do is listen to those whose lives have been affected by the colour of their skin. I've spent a lot of time in the US deep south and I can completely understand the need for some kind of reform. In the US I was astonished about how some of my white colleagues were openly talking to their black counterparts, and this was only 10-15 years ago. It's also worth reading up on the impact British colonisation (as an example - other colonisations are available) has on those countries today. The journalist Laura Trevelyan did a great piece about her family's slave owning past in Grenada, and the challenges Grenadians still face today as a result of colonisation.

It's not true that films can't win an Oscar if there are no black people in them, but there are rules around representation of 'under-represented identity groups' that a film needs to meet in order to be nominated/win. So to your point that would include asian and native americans too. The rules are explained here and I'm not going to pretend they're particularly easy to follow... BUT they're so wide-ranging as to make it almost impossible for a film not to qualify. The talent is out there, so it's not a case of employing people who don't have the skills to meet a quota, it's about creating equity.

No escalation, we are all adult or I hope so

Thanks, for the info about the oscar, so the rumors was wrong.

I still don't think it is what lucas wanted about blacks in the empire. There was blacks in the rebel alliance in return of the jedi and also asian if I remember correct. But we did not see any blacks or asian in the empire. As I understand it lucas build the empire from inspiration of the nazi regime.

I do not know much about jesus, I don't believe in religion and don't think there has been a jesus. But if jesus should have been black then they should make him black. Hollywood sometimes make what they want and not what is real. Hollywood also gave vikings 2 horns in the helmet, but they never had any horns in the helmet.

I just think they damage a movie or a tv series if something is not correct when they touch history or what a creator of a a story wrote many years ago. I saw vikings valhalla season 1, black vikings. I live in denmark where the vikings came from, I have never heard or read about black vikings. It just felt wrong and damaged the series. I just thought what the **** would the next be. A ww2 movie with black nazis or a movie about an african tribe in the 1800 century with asian, blacks and whites in the tribe

I saw disney had a thread on disney + about movies with blacks I was just thinking why the **** make such a thread. Then they should also make a thread with movies with native americans, asians and white.

About lotr if the southern men in RoP are dark skinned then they should for sure be dark skinned.

 

[Pomse2001]

Really enjoyed it

Maybe I should watch it, thanks

 

[lejackal]

One quick search brings up this article about Vikings and people of colour. I think many of us might be surprised how far around the globe people got throughout history.

More here:

Black Central Europe

We bring you over 1000 years of Black history in the German-speaking lands and show you why it matters right now

blackcentraleurope.com

I think it's great that we are getting more diversity in popular culture, it shows that some (small) progress is being made to stamp out racism and to promote inclusivity and understanding.

Given Stormtroopers wear helmets, and most of them in the shuttle scene are painted and not actual humans in suits, shows we've no idea how diverse, or otherwise, the Empire was when GL produced the OT. It's also worth noting that the films themselves are of a different time, with different ideology and social acceptance of differences.

 

[Pomse2001]

One quick search brings up this article about Vikings and people of colour. I think many of us might be surprised how far around the globe people got throughout history.

More here:

Black Central Europe

We bring you over 1000 years of Black history in the German-speaking lands and show you why it matters right now

blackcentraleurope.com

I think it's great that we are getting more diversity in popular culture, it shows that some (small) progress is being made to stamp out racism and to promote inclusivity and understanding.

Given Stormtroopers wear helmets, and most of them in the shuttle scene are painted and not actual humans in suits, shows we've no idea how diverse, or otherwise, the Empire was when GL produced the OT. It's also worth noting that the films themselves are of a different time, with different ideology and social acceptance of differences.

Wow I did not know that. I have heard and read a lot about vikings but this is the first time I have seen it. Thanks for the link

I agree there could have been blacks and asians under the helmet of stormies. But we only saw white officers and white soldiers that did not have a helmet on. I know it is from a diffrent time etc. etc. but lucas used blacks and asians between the rebels, so time could not have been the issue here.

Maybe it is just me. But I think it is wrong to change some things. I think it would also be wrong to let a black play Robin hood, 007, superman, batman, dracula or frankenstein. But it would also be wrong to let a white play Lando Calrissian, Dr. Kananga from 007, Morpheus from The Matrix or Agent J from Men in Black. The same with Willow it would be wrong not to let a dwarf play the part unless they use movie tricks like they did in lotr.

About 007 I did not like Daniel Craig as 007. I also think he was wrong for the part. Totally wrong body for the part and he could also not play 007, I have only seen the 007 movies with him once and I don't think I will ever see them again.

 

[sith-smith]

I like the Tolkien world and the fantasy and history that goes with it. I found Rings of power a bit of slow burn but have enjoyed it. It certainly got more interesting as the episodes went by. I liked the LOTR films, and it is cool to see the background to some aspects of it.