Palitoy collecting-what makes a collector?

[_Lee_]

After looking at the auctions and sales from the past few years, it has opened my eyes to the astonomical increase in cost of anything Palitoy. I have a set of the first 12 and a few others, but never ventured further than 12 and 41 backs. In 2004 i sold around 20 Palitoy logo,d cards in one go and looking back i can see we are looking at 2000% increase on some. The well travelled 45 back logo Stormtrooper i got from Andy on RS for £140 (and sold for £220 a year later) was up for sale 3 years ago for £2000 and people were queuing up for it!! That piece would command even more now.

So what about any entry level collectors that missed out of the bargains of yesteryear?? I think that some think that unless they have financial clout they cant be in the game, but that couldnt be further from the truth. its great seeing cardbacks, adverts with that logo-not everything has to be mint/sealed to make you a collector and a Palitoy fan. I really hope that some people dont get turned off because they think you have to have/own certain things to be serious about something-all that differentiates budget and moc is a bit of adhesive on a bubble and an unused figure. A used cardback/figure can tell exactly the same story, apart from it not being opened for 35 years I myself want to see that logo kept alive for many years by the new blood, but are they being scared off?

Is collecting in general becoming a case of obsession rather than joy for some people?

Have you ever looked at a figure moc and thought why?? why have i paid £200 or even £16,000 for a toy on a card?? is it fast becoming a rich mans hobby?

This is certainly a topic which i beleive could bear some fruitful discussions, and its something thats always makes me think.

 

[Palifan]

I couldn't agree with you more Lee about how prices have gotten so high of late that I'm sure it's put quite a few people off of getting into collecting these Palitoy logo moc's. It would be a real shame if this just became a rich mans hobby.

I probably began to get interested in Palitoy card backs again around 2008/9 and even then I remember an almost full set coming up on ebay with starting bids at around 1k per figure ( a bit less for some of the easier ones to find). These were from a shop find so were in great shape but I knew right then that I was never going to be able to get into that game so focused on reseals.
For me this has been a really good way of putting a set together of these early issue moc's without breaking the bank. I know even the reseals have gone up in value over time but they can still be found for anywhere from 30-100 GBP, depending on condition. You do get the odd rare one that goes higher and sometimes there's a strange spike in the price for some reason but I do think this is a good way of collecting them, the same goes for the card backs.

It's really important that new blood have interest in this fantastic company of old so that it's never forgotten. Also it's the reason a large part of the UK collecting community starting to seek them out in the first place as it's what we grew up with. Just like Kenner was a massive part of the US's childhood the same goes for the UK with Palitoy. Admittedly if you didn't grow up with this logo then it probably won't have so much of a special place for you but I think it's a very important company for all Star Wars fans (not to mention Action Man/Force and everything else that they put out over the years).

Let's hope that the interest remains strong for this company and with all the recent shop finds that are coming to auction ( and have already been), I'm sure this will be the case for many more years to come.

Ian

 

[Grant]

Back in 2009/2010 I was offered a set of the first 12 Palitoys for the princely sum of £11000. All of them were graded 85 with excellent subgrades. I passed them by as I wasn't interested in MOC's anymore at that point. Nowadays I'd appreciate owning a set of the first 12 but I'd never get over the fact that it would cost at least double that nowadays to get them in the condition Id ike to have them in due to my fu*king collecting OCD. Nowadays there off my bucket list. 8)

 

[sith-smith]

For as long as I have been collecting MOC (since the early 2000's) Palitoy always had that higher value compared to Kenner.

This was clearly due to two factors;

1) In most cases it was rarer
2) It had the home advantage. Lots of people wanted Palitoy because it was what they remembered as kids.

There has also been a lot of rumours, hearsay, conjecture, hype and lies regarding what is and isn't out there and in what quantities.

Back when I first started a lot of what you managed to get hold of depended on who you knew, the reputation you had, contacts you made and a certain amount of investigative skills. It seems like an ideal time compared to now, but the reality is it is still the same now and like today, in the end it still all came down to money.

The only difference is the amount of money.

Prices are very high. But in the early 2000's prices were high compared to the early 90's.

It has pretty much always been impossible to put a set of Palitoy 12 backs together unless you are willing to put down some serious money. What's changed is what people considered to be a serious amount of money. Now I think it has increased so much that it has probably out grown the growth of wages/disposable income that most collector would be willing to put down.

I could afford a nice set of the first 20 in 2002. I could not afford a set now, even though my Salary is considerably more than that today.

In many ways it is becoming a rich man's hobby, but, as I said to someone on here years ago, simply having the money does not produce the items. There is still the need of making contacts, investigation just as there's always been. There are also lots of people who are not totally motivated by money/greed and are willing to cut deals, do a favour etc. and that is good to see.

I don't think it will ever become just a rich man's hobby, but due to the continued increase in prices, increased competition etc. when people collect they need to have a very clear mind of what they want and are prepared to pay, measure this against the current price and make a decision.

I'd love to collect 3 packs. I'd love a complete set. Never going to happen, as are many other things I'd love to have. More often than not it's the price that holds me back!

 

[currymonster6290]

well this palitoy thing bugs me a little to be a palitoy collector you should
be into all the lines. palitoy is far more than star wars! you get people going
round calling themselves palitoy this palitoy that and they don't know jack (or little)
about the other lines they did! yes star wars was the biggest and most remembered!
but bar a little blue and red logo they are kenner on the whole. but yes a very good
question if you love star wars it doesn't matter what factory they came from does it! :lol:

 

[Palifan]

For me it's all about that logo as my first memories growing up and seeing adverts on T.V. were the Action Man ones which stated ' Action Man from Palitoy' at the end of them. I was made aware of the name back then and noticed it straight away when the Star Wars range was introduced. I even sold up my complete Kenner 12 back moc run to focus on a resealed 12 back Palitoy set as even though it was nice owning the kenner ones for a while there was something missing from them and once I had my first Palitoy reseal in my hands I realised what it was.

For many of us Star Wars toys are as much about Palitoy as they are the films, it's just the way it is.

Ian

 

[Fishtalk]

Exactly Ian, Palitoy is all about nostalgia. I don't get the same buzz from Kenner toys that I do with Palitoy. And not just Star Wars - I recently picked up some Palitoy Starsky and Hutch figures, great memories!

 

[Mr-shifter]

Now, none of you guys take offence here but I would say that Palitoy collectors are also of a certain age, most being over 40 now.

I was born in 79, so the star wars toys I played with were at the end of the line. When i was 4 to 5 the films were done. I don't remember the Palitoy logo, as it was long gone when I was getting my figures to play with. I doubt I ever got an empire figure. I also have no affinity with a lot of the other Palitoy lines, as I was a little to young.

I guess it is what you remember growing up. That said, I do have a couple of Palitoy logo'd MOCs in my collection. Purely as I like to have a nice diverse selection of cardbacks and distributors. I never got a pbp card, or a clipper but I still have examples.

 

[jedisearcher]

When I originally started collecting MOC's I didn't think I'd be bothered about Kenner or Palitoy, in fact, I remember thinking that the Palitoy stuff was just too expensive. However, after buying afew Kenner items I just didn't get any feeling of nostalgia from it, so decided Palitoy was the only way to go.

I'd love to be able to buy Palitoy AM and AF stuff but until I've bought as much of the SW stuff that I can to complete what I see as my aim, or the things I need just dry up entirely, then I'd rather save my pennies for SW stuff coming up for sale.

I'm happy to "just" be a Star Wars Palitoy collector

As to prices keeping collectors out of the market I see the point, some people can'/won't pay the current prices, but demand still seems sky high. There has never been so much Palitoy stuff for sale - last years Vectis sales, Craigs stuff, Beeches, the Palitoy rep - every sale seems to have very nice Palitoy stuff for sale and it's still selling.

With all this extra supply the economist in me says prices should drop but they haven't dropped at all, and in fact have probably increased, meaning that there must be plenty of demand out there. It can't all be long term collectors either, because some of the stuff has been relatively "common" and has still held up in price. New UK collectors seeing stuff in the press, Vectis uncovering such a large amount of stock, foreign collectors, the new films etc. have probably all contributed to new demand, but it seems like there is enough people prepared to pay what's the going rate at the moment.

No idea what that means for the longer term market, but I'd be betting that unless something truly bizarre happens (like hundreds of Palitoy SW/ESB items being uncovered and blowing the supply out of the water) then in afew years we'll all be discussing how 2015 was a great year for stuff to buy.

 

[TrisCompany]

I've got a few palitoys now, mostly with issues, cracked bubbles, knife to the head, faded etc. Because of this mostly bought at a fraction of the price. So for me it's only going to be a really rich mans hobby if you really need an afa 80- 85 card. For me that doesn't bother me that much.

My 30a Ben has been slit with a knife at the top of the bubble and so picked it up for £150- still a lot of money but not that much compared to other MOCs. Ben's hood is sticking up, the card is immaculate, unpunched. He's a thing of beauty, the only blemish the cut. To me that doesn't matter, in some respects I think he's a better card than a run of the mill 85 with no hood up, not unpunched or as immaculate as he is. This sounds weird, but I actually feel like I'm giving him a home as other collectors wouldn't value him as much given his issue So I think you can still collect and enjoy Palitoys for a reasonable price if you are happy to compromise.

Having said that I am not collecting reseals, or cards where the figure has / or could be removed down the side. Hypocritical given Ben could be by the top I know. But just a thing I have.

 

[Palifan]

Now, none of you guys take offence here but I would say that Palitoy collectors are also of a certain age, most being over 40 now.

I was born in 79, so the star wars toys I played with were at the end of the line. When i was 4 to 5 the films were done. I don't remember the Palitoy logo, as it was long gone when I was getting my figures to play with. I doubt I ever got an empire figure. I also have no affinity with a lot of the other Palitoy lines, as I was a little to young.

I guess it is what you remember growing up. That said, I do have a couple of Palitoy logo'd MOCs in my collection. Purely as I like to have a nice diverse selection of cardbacks and distributors. I never got a pbp card, or a clipper but I still have examples.

This was my point in my first post, it mainly is about what you grew up with that most collectors will hold dearest. At least if you were born after the initial release of Star Wars it means you stand half a chance of owning the card backs you remember having and not quite breaking the bank

Also I just wanted to point out that I'm far from a Palitoy snob ( and it also sounds like most people are the same on this forum), it's what ever gives you joy but for me, like others have mentioned, things just never felt quite right until a owned some card backs with that special logo on them.

Ian

 

[jedisearcher]

So for me it's only going to be a really rich mans hobby if you really need an afa 80- 85 card.

Well said. Meant to say exactly the same thing but got distracted by the snooker :lol:

 

[Robstyley]

Great thread this. I could be considered a newish collector(8 years collecting), certainly a new moc collector and the Palitoy stuff is pricey, to the point of being out of my price range. I totally understand why people love them though. I had Palitoys as a nipper, no 12's or 20's but I would have had Empire cards and it's the Made in England badge! I think it's each to their own. Each collector has their own agenda and budget. I personally just want an example of certain figures for the lowest price and I'm not too fussed what card it's on so I collect Jedi cards. Others want all Palitoy or a nice mixture as above post or just Empire cards etc. True though, many new collectors will be unable or unwilling to drop that sort of cash on one carded Star Wars figure just because it has a little logo on the front. Me included, even though I like them. I find it intriguing as to why people must have a certain card or a complete run of something. It's great, makes for a diverse and interesting hobby/community.

 

[Grant_C]

I have found with Palitoy MOCs over the last 20 years have...........



OMG! Vanity Fair have new Force Awakens pictures! ! !



Laterz.

 

[tiefighterboy]

I started collecting Palitoy back around 2007. I have no memories as I am american. I love the logo and the overall look. Actually the playsets and vehicles differ either in packaging or all together. I just have a passion for all vintage and I have a special place in my heart for Palitoy. Bargains can still be had...most of the "Rich" collectors are the ones who buy everything within months and soon find themselves bored and broke.

 

[Grant_C]

I wonder how much of this is newbs going mental. :?

 

[tiefighterboy]

I wonder how much of this is newbs going mental. :?

My guess is that is most of it. Once the market bottoms out..they will lose money..better for us I guess in terms of buying.

 

[indianawars]

I wouldn't necessarily say that this is a "rich man's hobby now," I think it's more to do with the fact it's no longer a taboo to collect toys now - So you have more, and more people are now getting into the hobby. There is also a big impact due to the new movies. I think, once the hype dies away, and the newbies fade out, we will be the last ones stand picking up a bargain or two again.

 

[Pomse2001]

I do not remember the palitoy logo from my childhood. But I remember the later palitoy cards with no palitoy logo.

I think the palitoy logo is cool and I also collect it. But it is not a focus for me.

I would not call it a rich man's hobby but damn it is expensive today and I hope they will get cheaper again. Not that I think it would happen.

Can the TT have something to do with the prices ?

 

[sith-smith]

I think it's difficult to gauge to extent to which it is just popularity and how much is due to rich collectors.

The hobby can have all the popularity in the world, but if the people collecting don't have the sort of money to throw down £5k+ on pieces on a regular basis, the price wouldn't rise to kind of levels it currently has.

I do think there is some truth to rich people coming in, buying everything quickly at stupid prices, then getting out. I know this has happened with several collectors in recent years. Problem is the overall price of Palitoy has risen, not dropped.

There has been the occasional figure that has gone for crazy money followed by far less for following sales. The best one from recent auctions is probably the 30 back Fx7 which sold of £7+. Following ones went for around £3-4k. While this does support the rich collector newb going mental idea, the after effects still caused a raise in price. £3k is 3 times what they went for before that Vectis sale. And I know of 3 that sold all around the £3-4k mark within a year of that sale. A few years before that sale I bought one for £1k...and even then I thought that was ridiculously over priced!

Like I said before, being rich does not guarantee you get every item. Firstly because some are so rare we don't even know if they exist. Secondly some do exist in collections but the owners intentionally do not make them known publically, so those with money don't know who to throw it at! Finally those owned by collectors who value them in themselves and do post pics of their collection are often not money driven so even if offered a fortune (I've been in that position) still say no!

I don't think it's a rich man's hobby as there are so many different ways in which you can have a Palitoy Star Wars focus (I feel a possible FF presentation coming on). But the way the hobby has gone has priced a lot of people out in terms of achieving certain goals. This includes me, and Palitoy MOC has been my focus for a long time.

I'm not convinced that those who buy at these high prices are necessarily buying because they see a value in the item because of nostalgia. Instead I think their thoughts often don't go much beyond money/rarity/prestige. I could be wrong.

I guess only time will tell.

Any one have an idea as to how much it would currently cost to put together a set of the first 12? It's certainly far easier to find them now than it was 15 years ago!